Naruto 575 Discussion

[roggie]

i think some of the problems of the manga comes from the fact there are no more chakra limitations, so if you have a strong technique you can keep defeating the next guy everytime. it would be nice if 5 or 10 regular joe could win over a good shinobi. But nowadays every character can use his techniques endlessly, only by faking he is tired and exhausted. Besides sasuke that is immune to this requisite

[Schabrak]

roggie
Sasuke never was and now he's just saved from getting blind, his chakra reserves didn't rise unless it's been mentioned in a panel I've missed. We see the Hokages and other high ranking shinobi having problems with the bottomless chakra reserves of the Edo Tensei though.

[mattiaildivino]

i think some of the problems of the manga comes from the fact there are no more chakra limitations, so if you have a strong technique you can keep defeating the next guy everytime. it would be nice if 5 or 10 regular joe could win over a good shinobi. But nowadays every character can use his techniques endlessly, only by faking he is tired and exhausted. Besides sasuke that is immune to this requisite

it's just now that the war is going on,since all the zombies dispose of infinite chakra,they haven't got limitations,but this doesn't go for other characters. did you forget Naruto's biju mode,or itachi's MS techniques? they didn't last much. and what about kakashi's kamui? you may say I'm argumenting with old examples(aside for naruto's biju mode),then what about Oonoki's jinton,which he wasn't able to use again until tsunade restored him? if they can last more,that's because they are becoming more accustomed to their own techniques (kakashi's kamui,naruto's modes). and I would be rather disappointed if fights ended after some great strikes

[panasit]

I don't know where you guys get this bloodlust for major character's death in war from.
Where is the precedent? Did you all watch Saving Private Ryan and became expert in how
wars are portrayed in fiction?

I just don't understand these people who feel that Kishi whimps out.
What other manga did you read that have this? Or do you expect Naruto to be like Berserk.

(spoiler for several manga/movies/game from this point onward)

Dragonball didn't have any major character death at all (thanks to the balls).
In One Piece during the war, the only deaths were two main ones that concluded the arc
None of the strawhat crew died. All the Admirals, Vice Admirals, Shichibukai, and Whitebeard captains san Ace
are all alive (unless you count Oars Jr. but he's not really major character is he)

So what?
Do any hobbits die in Lord of the Rings?
Are any of Luke's major friend characters died in Star Wars?

Are those unrealistic? May be, but what is realistic? I have never experienced war, only from watching
movie and play some games. But do I really expect Shikamaru and Hinata to suddenly get blow up by land mines in two panels?


The only work of fiction for kids, that is popular to the level of Naruto
that feature major character's death at the end of the series was Harry Potter.
And I liked all Harry Potter, but I have to admit, that last book felt forced.
Which I didn't like is that JK Rowling pretty much said "well, I didn't want to kill anybody, but Voldermort is ultimate evil, so I was trying to be realistic."
And then she ended up killing... (you know)
Did that satisfy any of us?
THAT'S THE EXACT ARGUMENT SOME OF YOU ARE MAKING ABOUT THIS WAR

Now think about it for a moment? Is that stupid or smart? I can't have nobody die, so I guess I'll kill this character....
All deaths in Naruto has a purpose, and I'm glad it's that way. I don't need a panel having Kiba said "well, I can't believe we lost Shino, but at least the war is over." Who want that scene? I'm glad Kishi is not that kind of writer. Really.

[Uchiha_Blood]

i think oonoki poses the biggest threat to madara, i think the dust elemental attack could very well take madara out if he isnt careful

other than that its going to take one hell of a combined attack for the other 4 kages to take him out

Well he is immortal, but yes, Oonoki is the main threat, and the only one Madara aknowledged.
And likely the one that will die, regrettably.

we don't know if he was/is as strong as itachi,considered the genious of illusions,who was far beneath Shisui nonetheless.
yeah,Madara controlled the fox with his 3-tomoe sharingan,although he had his EMS on the moment before that,perhaps EMS hasn't got any improvements concerning genjutsu? no I doubt it. but where did you take the info of those 3 MS users? that's impossible,since before shisui there were only 2 MS,cause itachi,kakashi and sasuke hadn't developed it yet.

When Itachi confronted Sasuke in the Uchiha massacre, saying that he required him alive because, with him, there would be 3 MS users, confirmed when Sasuke interrogated Itachi on "the third Uchiha", the one required to control the Kyuubi.

here here and here

I don't know where you guys get this bloodlust for major character's death in war from.
Where is the precedent? Did you all watch Saving Private Ryan and became expert in how
wars are portrayed in fiction?

I just don't understand these people who feel that Kishi whimps out.
What other manga did you read that have this? Or do you expect Naruto to be like Berserk.

(spoiler for several manga/movies/game from this point onward)

Dragonball didn't have any major character death at all (thanks to the balls).
In One Piece during the war, the only deaths were two main ones that concluded the arc
None of the strawhat crew died. All the Admirals, Vice Admirals, Shichibukai, and Whitebeard captains san Ace
are all alive (unless you count Oars Jr. but he's not really major character is he)

So what?
Do any hobbits die in Lord of the Rings?
Are any of Luke's major friend characters died in Star Wars?

Are those unrealistic? May be, but what is realistic? I have never experienced war, only from watching
movie and play some games. But do I really expect Shikamaru and Hinata to suddenly get blow up by land mines in two panels?


The only work of fiction for kids, that is popular to the level of Naruto
that feature major character's death at the end of the series was Harry Potter.
And I liked all Harry Potter, but I have to admit, that last book felt forced.
Which I didn't like is that JK Rowling pretty much said "well, I didn't want to kill anybody, but Voldermort is ultimate evil, so I was trying to be realistic."
And then she ended up killing... (you know)
Did that satisfy any of us?
THAT'S THE EXACT ARGUMENT SOME OF YOU ARE MAKING ABOUT THIS WAR

Now think about it for a moment? Is that stupid or smart? I can't have nobody die, so I guess I'll kill this character....
All deaths in Naruto has a purpose, and I'm glad it's that way. I don't need a panel having Kiba said "well, I can't believe we lost Shino, but at least the war is over." Who want that scene? I'm glad Kishi is not that kind of writer. Really.

I wholeheartly agree with you, but a small, naive and hopeful part of myself wishes that Sakura will break this tradition and die her well deserved death

[mattiaildivino]

I don't know where you guys get this bloodlust for major character's death in war from.
Where is the precedent? Did you all watch Saving Private Ryan and became expert in how
wars are portrayed in fiction?

I just don't understand these people who feel that Kishi whimps out.
What other manga did you read that have this? Or do you expect Naruto to be like Berserk.

(spoiler for several manga/movies/game from this point onward)

Dragonball didn't have any major character death at all (thanks to the balls).
In One Piece during the war, the only deaths were two main ones that concluded the arc
None of the strawhat crew died. All the Admirals, Vice Admirals, Shichibukai, and Whitebeard captains san Ace
are all alive (unless you count Oars Jr. but he's not really major character is he)

So what?
Do any hobbits die in Lord of the Rings?
Are any of Luke's major friend characters died in Star Wars?

Are those unrealistic? May be, but what is realistic? I have never experienced war, only from watching
movie and play some games. But do I really expect Shikamaru and Hinata to suddenly get blow up by land mines in two panels?


The only work of fiction for kids, that is popular to the level of Naruto
that feature major character's death at the end of the series was Harry Potter.
And I liked all Harry Potter, but I have to admit, that last book felt forced.
Which I didn't like is that JK Rowling pretty much said "well, I didn't want to kill anybody, but Voldermort is ultimate evil, so I was trying to be realistic."
And then she ended up killing... (you know)
Did that satisfy any of us?
THAT'S THE EXACT ARGUMENT SOME OF YOU ARE MAKING ABOUT THIS WAR

Now think about it for a moment? Is that stupid or smart? I can't have nobody die, so I guess I'll kill this character....
All deaths in Naruto has a purpose, and I'm glad it's that way. I don't need a panel having Kiba said "well, I can't believe we lost Shino, but at least the war is over." Who want that scene? I'm glad Kishi is not that kind of writer. Really.

agreed. but DRAGON BALL is a special case,and is older than the current generation of manga,whose authors owes much to AKIRA TORIYAMA . There (that is in DB) HE could use characters again thank's to the DRAGON BALLS themselves,and even if characters died, they could be shown in the other world (I don't know how to call it in English ).we can tell that Naruto used this device in this war,to make previous characters come back. by the way,it's not true that noone has died,Torune is dead for sure,and probably Fu is dead as well.

[Invader]

I don't know where you guys get this bloodlust for major character's death in war from? ... I just don't understand these people who feel that Kishi wimps out. What other manga did you read that have this? Dragonball didn't have any major character death at all. In One Piece during the war, the only deaths were two main ones that concluded the arc. Do any hobbits die in Lord of the Rings? Are any of Luke's major friend characters died in Star Wars?

Hear BLOODY hear!

I also get real tired of some of the people who do nothing but sit on thier butts and whine and moan and #$tch that Kishi isn't mowing down main character like grass. Wake up and smell the coffee. Take a turn down Reality Drive. Shake hands with Rodney Real. Naruto is not Not NOT ever going to be that kind of manga. It isn't. Any desire to MAKE it into 'that' kind of manga is unrealistic. It'll never happen. Not in a million years. Death of main characters in Naruto is something that is reserved for very rare occasions.

Any expectations or desires that anyone has for that to happen are in vain. Yeah we know some of you want the bodies of main characters to pile up to the sky. We know you want to stack the corpses of the rookies like cordwood. We know you want to see Kakashi, Gai, Kurenai, Raido, Kotetsu, Izuma, Iruka, Tsunade, and everyone else lying in gory heaps that stretch as far as your eye can see. We get it. There are plenty of other mangas you can read to slake your bloodthirst. This ain't one of 'em.

[mattiaildivino]

When Itachi confronted Sasuke in the Uchiha massacre, saying that he required him alive because, with him, there would be 3 MS users, confirmed when Sasuke interrogated Itachi on "the third Uchiha", the one required to control the Kyuubi.

here here and here

no that's wrong man ! Itachi simulated to be glad of sasuke's Ms because he was simulating to be after Sasuke's eyes,in order to obtain the EMS. noone never said that to control the fox,3 MS users are to be there,in fact except Madara(whose sharingan could control the fox on its own) there was just Izuna,and except Madara no MS user tried to subjugate Kurama (remember it was sealed after madara's "death"). Furthermore,look even what sasuke states here (confirmed by Itachi) : http://www.mangareader.net/93-390-15...apter-385.html MS user alone can control the fox!

[Masterpice]

I wonder...ET always regenerates from some "scraps" etc when it gets hit because it is still there...What from Edo would regenerate if it would be completely closed inside Tsuchikage triangle or square and then he would release his dust element and it would destroy everything...there would be nothing there....

---------- Post added at 02:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:12 PM ----------

no that's wrong man ! Itachi simulated to be glad of sasuke's Ms because he was simulating to be after Sasuke's eyes,in order to obtain the EMS. noone never said that to control the fox,3 MS users are to be there,in fact except Madara(whose sharingan could control the fox on its own) there was just Izuna,and except Madara no MS user tried to subjugate Kurama (remember it was sealed after madara's "death"). Furthermore,look even what sasuke states here (confirmed by Itachi) : http://www.mangareader.net/93-390-15...apter-385.html MS user alone can control the fox!

Yeah but QB has to be free so it's useless as long as QB is sealed inside Naruto and he controls him[After all they control QB with Genjutsu so it's even more then useless now]...and I don't think that Naruto is going to give birth soon :P

[Schabrak]

I just don't understand these people who feel that Kishi whimps out.
What other manga did you read that have this? Or do you expect Naruto to be like Berserk?

Are those unrealistic? May be, but what is realistic? I have never experienced war, only from watching
movie and play some games. But do I really expect Shikamaru and Hinata to suddenly get blow up by land mines in two panels?

People want this art of fiction to be more realistic, because aside from the magic energy called chakra and their jutsus, it's about fucking warriors going into war. This isn't like some 17th century war, where the commanders stay in the back and watch their soldier die, here the leaders are at the top front fighting immortal enemies. Some author can kill of characters easily, other can't, Kishi is the type that needs time to put emphasis and love into a character before he let's them die. And he just can't do that kind of slow style in this fast moving war.

You might want to reread HP, there are several support characters dying. The main character of DB did die, that the characters could be resurrected is another topic. Read some extended universe SW novels, you will be suprised. Who would you expect do die in the trilogy? Calrissian, Akbar, Mon Mothma, an ewok? Did you forget pre Clone Wars characters, most of them did die. Nana, Vagabond, Boti, Historie, Gantz. Oars is no major character, but the WB commanders are? He was one of the top heroes of that war, sacrificing the last of his life to ensure the invasion! Do we know if any of the VA did die or not? At least Jozu became a one-armed bandit.

Hey Invader

SHUT UP!

Don't order people around, you aren't a MH, this isn't called a discussion for nothing.

So just STOP IT!

What is the problem with one or two dying out of a couple dozen characters with no additional plot development for years? Would people mourn and hate Kishi for killing Ino? Is it that unexpected to see someone die fighting the Seven Swordsman of the Mist!? Kishi is a weak writer to let hundreds, no thousands of fodder[jounin to elite jounin] die, but can't kill of some named characters IMHO.

[Chojin]

I have an idea about the meeting with Itachi. Perhaps Sasuke will ask about the hidden MS he fired on Tobi. Itachi will ask 'did it kill him'? I think Itachi was under the impression that if Tobi removes the mask he is vulnerable. That is why Tobi said that he kept some secrets from him. Still it is hard to tie Zetsu and the mask and in fact different masks since the masked man Itachi met has long hair not short like Tobi. It is a bit confusing.

[Masterpice]

People want this art of fiction to be more realistic, because aside from the magic energy called chakra and their jutsus, it's about fucking shinobi warriors going into war! This isn't like some 17th century war, where the commanders stay in the back and watch their soldier die, here the leaders are at the top front fighting immortal enemies.

You might want to reread HP, there are several support characters dying. The main character of DB did die, that the characters could be resurrected is another topic. Read some extended universe SW novels, you will be suprised. Who would you expect do die in the trilogy? Calrissian, Akbar, Mon Mothma, an ewok? Did you forget pre Clone Wars characters, most of them did die. Nana, Vagabond, Boti, Historie, Gantz. Oars is no major character, but the WB commanders are? He was one of the top heroes of that war, sacrificing the last of his life to ensure the invasion! Do we know if any of the VA did die or not? At least Jozu became a one-armed bandit.

Well yeah but still those shinobis are leaders because they are too good to die This is why Fodders die all the time off screen. ;p

[Jammin]

Hear BLOODY hear!

I also get real tired of some of the people who do nothing but sit on thier butts and whine and moan and #$tch that Kishi isn't mowing down main character like grass. Those of you who want to turn this Jump Shonen manga into Berzerk or some 'other' manga please just SHUT UP! I say that in the nicest way. Get over it. Really. Wake up and smell the coffee. Take a turn down Reality Drive. Shake hands with Rodney Real. Naruto is not Not NOT ever going to be that kind of manga. It isn't. No - you aren't listening to me! It isn't. Your desire to MAKE it into 'that' kind of manga is unrealistic. It'll never happen. Not in a million years. Death of main characters in Naruto is something that is reserved for very rare occasions. There will NEVER be a story arc where dozens of main characters, half the rookies, and a bunch of Kages get butchered like hogs. Any expectations or desires you have for that to happen are in vain. So just STOP IT!

I disagree.

You presume we, who are displeased with the lack of significant casualties in this war are comparing it to something outside of Naruto itself, and in this respect you are wrong.

The problem is that Naruto itself has shown wars before. Kakashi gaiden, Nagato's origin story, Itachi's origin story, Tsunade's origin story, Danzou's orgin story, so forth and so on. This is supposed to be Naruto's exposure to that yet his version of war seems like it was directed by Disney. How can he ever claim to have knowledge of war when the war he faced was a joyful walk in the sunshine compared to what they faced. It undermines everything this war was built up to be. Facing war without sacrifice and loss is not facing war at all.

It turns the whole Naruto facing war theme into a great big joke. That might be ok by some people but it's NOT ok by me and I won't pretend that it is either. If that seems whiny to you, I'm sorry, but unless Kishi remedies this you'll just have to learn to live with that.

[mattiaildivino]

I have an idea about the meeting with Itachi. Perhaps Sasuke will ask about the hidden MS he fired on Tobi. Itachi will ask 'did it kill him'? I think Itachi was under the impression that if Tobi removes the mask he is vulnerable. That is why Tobi said that he kept some secrets from him. Still it is hard to tie Zetsu and the mask and in fact different masks since the masked man Itachi met has long hair not short like Tobi. It is a bit confusing.

that part should be within the larger part concerning Madara and Tobi (the meeting with itachi,the meeting with kisame,the fight against minato).
about sasuke's amaterasu casted by itachi, Itachi already know that tobi survived,although he may not know that tobi "was" madara. Itachi talked with Nagato in volume 57,thinking it was Madara who had just summoned them,and then Naruto told him Madara had told him and sasuke the truth behind the uchihas' massacre.
wanna now the truth? Itachi simulated that his only device versus tobi was sasuke's amaterasu( and tobi thought itachi failed) but Itachi already planned an advantage,that is Koto Amatsukami; he gave naruto something in order to stop sasuke nonetheless.

[RedPidgeon]

Oro will come back..I think he is going to take over Edo Madara's body...I mean, if he did meet Madara when he did some transplant jutsu way back when..whats there to stop him from adding his own chakra into Madara as well..I mean, what if Madara has to use some specific move that will trigger Oro's chakra and take him over..after all, Oro wanted to get his hands on Sasuke to access the rinnigan.. He failed at getting Itachi, and maybe he tried it first with Madara, but Madara passed away before anything could happen..now that he is back, alive or dead (Edo Tensei) at least thats what I believe...anybody else think this is totally possible? I mean Oro played such a huge roll for the first half of this manga..I mean, him dying like that..I dont think its over just yet. I think Oro will come back and become the ultimate villain in this series.