Naruto 576 Discussion

[ZShadow07]

Weird, I agree and disagree with you at the same time. I think Aizen's shikai ability is the perfect comparison to genjutsu, it just fits. But you say its obvious they can be able to have conversations inside each others minds which isn't obvious to me. I know its not the Bleach forum but lets use Aizen's shikai as the example since you brought it up and it fits so well. Aizen can't see what people are thinking even though his ability allows him to project what he wants others to see/smell/taste/hear/etc... Its all a one way street. And that's how I thought genjutsu was, that's why I don't understand this easy concept.

And you're right about the comics, I stopped reading X-men a LONG time ago... there's just too many of them now its overwhelming.

Genjutsu users can't see what people are thinking, they don't have telepathy..they see what they project in an illusion. If Azien fooled them into attacked each other, he mimcked speech patterns, sight, touch etc. There in his world I think when your creating an illusion you can see the illusion and how people react since its your illusion. Thats the only explanation why everyone thought Azien was dead. Get it? Cause I know im kind of rambling...

[bigman]

Genjutsu users can't see what people are thinking, they don't have telepathy..they see what they project in an illusion. If Azien fooled them into attacked each other, he mimcked speech patterns, sight, touch etc. There in his world I think when your creating an illusion you can see the illusion and how people react since its your illusion. Thats the only explanation why everyone thought Azien was dead. Get it? Cause I know im kind of rambling...

Then... I think we agree...right?

[themaddie]

@bigman How can an Uchiha influence a person by ONLY reading chakra? By "literally put a piece of their [B]being[/B]" you mean theirchakra? right? -- yeah. My point was that chakra "beings" were sent into to naruto, programmed, and were able to interact. If itachi maintained control of his genjutsu and chakra, why would he not be able to interact? So, if only naruto has an inner world, who exactly was it that showed up in naruto's inner world when sasuke was there? and who took over orochimaru? and who's to say it's not an "inner world" that an uchiha creates in order to control and project their illusions onto. where exactly is a genjutsu battle taking place? an innerworld is just a mental construct and that's all genjutsu is. If Itachi can wrap physical objects in a genjutsu and send it down a throat of a person only to be summoned when a programmed instance occurs, I think it's safe to say you're version of genjutsu is gimping the sharingan. You seem to be confusing genjutsu with the ability of the Sharingan to CAST genjutsu, it seems to me. http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Genjutsu I assume any ninja skilled with genjutsu can create an illusionary world and interoperate within it, because it is their world to be created... the victim is subjected to whatever they wish mentally.

[mattiaildivino]

Then... I think we agree...right?

Actually,genjutsu can entry into the opponents' mind,so they could technically see even what they are thinking,imo.Furthermore,there are so many strong and perspicacious ninjas,who can see what another one is thinking just looking at him (Itachi,pain ecc.)

[samsiufan]

The caster of Genjutsu does not enter the persons mind. Genjutsu controls the chakra in the brain and influences the person that way by manipulating the 5 senses. At least that is what Jiraiya said (http://www.mangareader.net/93-264-9/...apter-259.html - top left pane and again http://www.mangareader.net/93-264-10...apter-259.html - middle left pane). So for me, a genjutsu user just controls the chakra in the brain of the opponent and uses that to control the five senses - hence why it feels so real.

Sasuke describes it as hynotism and Zabuza descibes it as the same (http://www.mangareader.net/93-31-13/...hapter-26.html - bottom right panel). Genjutsu = hynotism and it works by controlling the 5 senses by means of the chakra in the brain. The entry point of the hynotism is the eyes...hence why Gai never gets caught in it - he can fight by not looking directly at the opponent.

This is really how genjutsu work in its very basic form - http://www.mangareader.net/93-31-14/...hapter-26.html. once the person is hynotised, the genjutsu user can suggest what he wants....

[abyozuu]

tsunade and her pupil are weak women: http://www.mangareader.net/93-39-7/n...hapter-34.html.

bottom panel

[M3J]

I'm hoping if we see Sasuke and Itachi talk, it wont' be boring. To be honest, it was kinda boring seeing them talk, Sasuke being all "TELL ME STUFFZ " while Itachi kept blowing him off a lot.

[xXan]

I'm hoping if we see Sasuke and Itachi talk, it wont' be boring. To be honest, it was kinda boring seeing them talk, Sasuke being all "TELL ME STUFFZ " while Itachi kept blowing him off a lot.

Gues i am in the minority :P I just LOVED the talk no jutsu. Read it multiple times. Even if its nothing really important and just Sasuke QQ-ing about stuff the interaction between the brothers is just epic for me.

[badluckartist]

I doubt Gaara will die. That's just not in the cards. However, I can see A, Tsunade, and Oonoki dying no problem. Mei? My jury is out on that.

Mei still has too much to reveal to the reader about the Mist. The narrative could be done through someone like Ao or Choujuro I guess, but it'd be a lot more effective if it was Mei, imo.

[jaymizzo]

I'm hoping if we see Sasuke and Itachi talk, it wont' be boring. To be honest, it was kinda boring seeing them talk, Sasuke being all "TELL ME STUFFZ " while Itachi kept blowing him off a lot.

Sasuke is now like an annoying bootycall to Itach lol. Dude doesn't have time for him yet Sasuke is forcing himself onto him. The sad thing is that Sasuke completely ignored everything Itachi told him

[M3J]

Gues i am in the minority :P I just LOVED the talk no jutsu. Read it multiple times. Even if its nothing really important and just Sasuke QQ-ing about stuff the interaction between the brothers is just epic for me.

Itachi wasn't as epic as he usually is, though. Guess it's because I expect him to say a lot of smart stuff since he usually does. :x

[ashher]

Does anyone know why ohana has stopped giving spoilers? As for predicting next chapter, i guess/hope that tsunade is going to fight in an impressive way. However i do not doubt that edo madara won't be defeated by the kages. Stopping him would require stopping of ET by itachi. So itachi vs kabuto could be the cliffhanger of this chapter if kishi is feeling generous.

[bigman]

@bigman How can an Uchiha influence a person by ONLY reading chakra? By "literally put a piece of their [B]being[/B]" you mean theirchakra? right? -- yeah. My point was that chakra "beings" were sent into to naruto, programmed, and were able to interact. If itachi maintained control of his genjutsu and chakra, why would he not be able to interact? So, if only naruto has an inner world, who exactly was it that showed up in naruto's inner world when sasuke was there? and who took over orochimaru? and who's to say it's not an "inner world" that an uchiha creates in order to control and project their illusions onto. where exactly is a genjutsu battle taking place? an innerworld is just a mental construct and that's all genjutsu is. If Itachi can wrap physical objects in a genjutsu and send it down a throat of a person only to be summoned when a programmed instance occurs, I think it's safe to say you're version of genjutsu is gimping the sharingan. You seem to be confusing genjutsu with the ability of the Sharingan to CAST genjutsu, it seems to me. http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Genjutsu I assume any ninja skilled with genjutsu can create an illusionary world and interoperate within it, because it is their world to be created... the victim is subjected to whatever they wish mentally.

Alright, I don't really want to get into the whole inner world thing because that's in no way genjutsu or how genjutsu works. I'm pretty sure Orochimaru called his body transfer place a special dimension he constructed. Considering we haven't seen Orochimaru ever use genjutsu, and everytime hes been beaten its been by genjutsu, I take him at his word.

You obviously didn't read what I wrote in response to you about Sasuke being in Naruto's inner world. I said perhaps Uchihas can enter a hosts inner world because they have the Sharingan. Same reason Naruto was able to enter Son Goku's inner world. When it relates back to the Sage of the Six Paths there are certain things that are allowed to take place, and the Uchiha, Senju, Uzumaki and Tailed Beasts are all connected in that way. I seriously doubt a host is that weak against genjutsu that any genjutsu user, non-sharingan user can just walk into a hosts inner world and free the Bijuu.

I'm not understanding what you are proposing in relation to Itachi, because everything you just said was not genjutsu. The only "genjutsu" part of what you said about Itachi doing was his usual crow genjutsu, everything else was real.

My whole argument is that you should not be able to have a two way conversation via genjutsu because the caster needs to be able to receive information (of what the victim said inside their head) within the genjutsu. Which is more like what Inochi does, which is not genjutsu. From what we know genjutsu is a one way street, you send the genjutsu controlling the victims senses and get them to do what you want. The genjutsu caster doesn't get real-time feedback telepathically of what the victim is saying in their head.

I think samsiufan's explaination is the best. http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...=1#post2809694

Just because you hypnotize someone does not mean you can peer into their mind and have a telepathic conversation as a chakra being.

[Invader]

And yet two-way conversations take place during genjutsus all the time - thus undermining the argument. The concept that a genjutsu is some sort of pre-recorded 'video' that is fired off like a bullet is just wrong - flat out like a lizard drinking. Genjutsu are clearly interactive - and must therefore take place entirely on a mental level in the brains of both the target and the caster. That makes it mind control, or - more specifically - a mind 'attack'.

I think some folks confuse the issue by making the mistake of comparing the Sharingan's METHOD of implementing a genjutsu (sight) with genjutsu in general. Different genjutsu are established in different ways, but the end result is the same. The caster takes over the target's brain, and attacks them - resulting in phychic damage that incapacitates the target. If the caster chooses not to attack, but instead wishes to talk, then they can do that as well. This is the rule, not the exception. The vast bulk of the genjutsu we've seen have all been interactive mental attacks.

So while it could be said that 'hypnotism' is the means by which the link is established (sound, sight, whatever), once the caster is 'in' the whole thing becomes mind control.

[Kisame Hoshigaki]

i am curious as to where itachi is heading, i would think he is heading to kabuto's location....or perhaps to the edo madara
either way it should be interesting to see little bro tagging along, and hopefully even FIGHTING along side big bro

talk about a deadly combo....

but i will be dissapointed if we dont at least get a peek of the naruto vs. tobi fight this chapter