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Thread: Bleach 483 Discussion

  1. #181
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member lunacat's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 483 Discussion / 484 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by ca12nag3 View Post
    What Kaien theory would that be?

    There are a few facts about the Shiba that stand out and perhaps arnt highlighted as much but could play a role.

    -Kaien died leaving no male heir that we know of.
    -Kukaku is the current leader sister of Kaien.
    -The Shiba are a fallen house, we do not know why. It could be lack of male heir (if Ganju is adopted and not born Shiba ofc).
    -The real Shiba in reality was a noble house with claim to royal lineage. A house that fell due to the assassination of its leader and the lack of a heir. Coincidence??

    Sidefacts:

    -Ichigo looks like Kaien be it his hair is orange.
    -Isshin Kurosaki Ichigos father is a captain lvl shinigami, thus outclassing Kaien who was a lt at the time. Granted the timedifference but still.
    -Kurosaki as a name is not known in SS, or maybe the Capt Commander knows it but doesnt reveal it.

    Speculations:

    -Either he was in SS before any of the other captains, or he was at the time not of any importance yet grew his powers outside the SS, still his acquaintance with Urahara destroys that notion.
    Option is he is of 0 squad.
    -My idea is that the relation Ichigo has with Kaien would run through his mother not his father. And that the 0 squad is there to protect that secret. Protecting the real heir to the Shiba house perhaps? >Ichigo.
    - If like i said earlier the Shiba in reality and the Shiba in this story are similar then Ichigo could be if he is descendant of the Shiba as male stake a claim to the throne of SS (the soul king). His blood would be royal and a immediate threat to the other nobles in SS.
    In essence if they knew a human halfbreed could inherrit the throne they might kill him? Or would have long ago. Uraharas secret training and him knowing about the hidden power he has of his royal lineage would all fall in place and make sense.
    Thank you so much for assembling all these facts, what i meant was that Kaien and Ichigo might be the same person rather than him being a herit to the shiba family

    ---------- Post added at 12:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mattiaildivino View Post
    I doubt isshin will join this arc so soon,unless kubo wants to make a good entry from the beginning. yet,he has already done more than enough to strengthen this arc,so he won't do that imo,at least for the moment.
    i think he'll bring everyone in this arc since it's the last one, all the secrets should be revealed and all shinigamis should fight but looking at the current chapters, he's taking baby steps to show us the details and it's bothering me a lot

  2. #182
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Bleach 483 Discussion / 484 Predictions

    Ichigo is Ichigo.

    Kaien WAS Kaien.

  3. #183
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ca12nag3's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 483 Discussion / 484 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher6 View Post
    It wouldn't be through his mother since his mother is human. Unless she was given a gigai that made her human. Maybe that was why isshin had no powers during that time. At most she could've been a quincy or a full bringer. which would explain why ichigo had full bringer powers in the first place, that is if what ginjou said is true. Urahara said it's not my fault that your powers are weak, which leads me to believe he had some involvement in it, but isshin made the choice hence why it wasn't urahara's fault.
    Whatever happened before ichigo was born must be around the time yuirichi left ss. Why else would she be involved with urahara and isshin? I think that would be the key point that'll be used. i can't be the only person who thinks that there had to be some big reason she just up and left her position....
    There is no reason his mother could not be related to Kaien.

    -She could see Isshin without doubt. How does 1 procreate with a gigai?
    -Isshin met her somehow, so why could he not be a zero squad member looking after these descendants of the Shiba (in my hypothesis) And eventually fell in love with her.

    What im going at is the fact that humans cannot see souls/shinigamis/hollows. (unless they are quincy).
    Ichigo shows no sign of being Quincy at all , im not saying its impossible but youd expect him to have some power related to it if his mother were one. At least i would.
    Yet he has a huge shinigami power so huge that it dazzles the captains of the gotai. Byakuya even insists his power is not bankai cause its for the elite amongst shinigami.
    Isshin shows his power late in the manga, being that of Captain lvl, this to me shows that he is beyond Kaien in power, mainly because we dont see people rise or fall that fast in soul society and Kaien in SS terms isnt dead that long. Why would Isshin who also has another name Kurosaki be related to Kaien yet not the head of the Shiba? First off hes stronger, 2nd he has another last name.
    Btw he does mention his sword is that of captain lvl when taking down the grand fisher. So he doesnt say hes a captain but of that lvl. For 1 the 0 squad are all captain + lvl since they only recruit that lvl, so rank wise its a demotion but prestige wise its a promotion. I doubt all 0 squad members are called captain .

    ---------- Post added at 05:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Chojin View Post
    Ichigo is Ichigo.

    Kaien WAS Kaien.
    Where im going is that its possible that Ichigos mother is related to Kaien, or Kaiens father. That way she would have been directly linked to the inherritage of the Shiba. Meaning if she had a son > Ichigo. He can inherrit the Shiba seat. And lead the house.
    My suspection is that the Shiba does not have a official male heir. Ganju has to be adopted like Rukia is for example. And Kukaku as far as we know has no son.
    If there is a half human bloodline of the Shiba in itself it would be a scandal ofc. But rules are rules and if its true like i hypothesize Ichigo could be that male heir. Through his mother.
    Also it would make sense for the 0 squad to be there to protect these distant relatives.
    Like i said earlier the Shiba could be a cousin bloodline to the royal line, making it possible for them to inherrit the soul kings throne if the soul king has no male heir.
    The soul king in turn could have ordered his 0 squad to protect the kurosakis at all cost ( especially Ichigo) since he could be the next heir.
    A reasonable thoughtline could be that the other nobles wouldnt like to take orders from a halfbred human, and have him rule over them. So they would try to kill him. If word ever slipped about this.

    This would explain a lot about different aspects that i incorporate into this theory ^^.

    -Aizen knew of Ichigo he knew his potential (royal blood?)
    -0 squad is practically on their doorstep (Yuruichi is always close as well as Urahara < exiled my ass )
    -Ichigos mother had to be able to see Isshin also in soul form, i do not think they met while he was in gigai, and his personality doesnt seem to suport the idea of him living a lie (like he would keep his shinigami life a secret).
    -Ichigo looks like Kaien< notice that Aizen doesnt even mention this, and he knew Kaien. His resemblance can mean many things but i think its possible that he looks like a Shiba, more then like Kaien. What i mean is that maybe its not Kaien he takes after but Kaiens father ( if Kaien looks like his father as well). Either way someone did more then just hunt hollows in the human world ^^. After all someone can look like his grandfather or greatgrandfather, if the appearance is inherrited strongly. Kaien could be his great-uncle rather then a direct line.

    Lets say Kaiens father fooled around on earth, had a son with a woman, that son again had a son,that son would then be Masakis father. Masaki has Ichigo. And there you go Ichigo is the only male with Shiba blood left.

    I bring this back up because Ichigos sisters talk about the funeral of their grandfather where they allegedly met with their cousin (Tsukishima ofc). Well Tsukishima being there is fake but the funeral had to be real since he cant change events.however The grandfather was alive prior to Ichigos birth. Thus if my theory is correct a male heir always existed, and the Shiba were never without a direct male heir ^^. Only now Ichigo is the last male left then in this theory. Hope its not to complicated haha.
    Last edited by ca12nag3; March 06, 2012 at 10:50 AM.

  4. #184
    MH Senpai MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Asclepius's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 483 Discussion / 484 Predictions

    I gotta say that i'm as interested as some of you are about procriation and desease in the shinigami world.

    Nobles are souls born in Seireitei, unless the person is adopted. Is there a form of procriation to make this happen? Or is this a random event from a higher power?

    Does a sick person develop the desease in Seireitei or does the person bring it from the living time? Or maybe both.

    I don't know if Kubo will ever answer any of these mysteries, but i'd like to know what is the Bleach logic.

    Discuss the yaoi side of Shingeki no Kyojin and Kuroko no Basket at the Boys Love section.

  5. #185
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ca12nag3's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 483 Discussion / 484 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Asclepius View Post
    I gotta say that i'm as interested as some of you are about procriation and desease in the shinigami world.

    Nobles are souls born in Seireitei, unless the person is adopted. Is there a form of procriation to make this happen? Or is this a random event from a higher power?

    Does a sick person develop the desease in Seireitei or does the person bring it from the living time? Or maybe both.

    I don't know if Kubo will ever answer any of these mysteries, but i'd like to know what is the Bleach logic.
    yea, this is all really interesting indeed. The thing is we just know Byakuya as well as Yuruichi are born in SS. They are nobles. Longlasting bloodlines in the soul world.

    Taking from Byakuyas reactions and words its not common for a noble to take a commoner (newcomer soul) as spouse. Or to even adopt them in your family. Both his love for his wife and his promise to her as she was dieing made him bend/break those rules/traditions.
    Also he doesnt think highly of the Shiba, his reaction towards Ganju is more then cold. More like mockery. I suspect that without a male heir a house falls and does no longer exist at least not on a prestige lvl.
    Kaien always was good with the commoners and didnt think more of himself. This might as i suspect not fall good with the other nobles, and they would for sure welcome the Shibas downfall.

    So far we only know about 3 of the former 5 (now 4) great houses, thats Yuruichis, Byakuyas and the Shiba. The other 2 are unknown.

  6. #186
    The Original 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member thornofcarrion's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 483 Discussion / 484 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Asclepius View Post
    I gotta say that i'm as interested as some of you are about procriation and desease in the shinigami world.

    Nobles are souls born in Seireitei, unless the person is adopted. Is there a form of procriation to make this happen? Or is this a random event from a higher power?

    Does a sick person develop the desease in Seireitei or does the person bring it from the living time? Or maybe both.

    I don't know if Kubo will ever answer any of these mysteries, but i'd like to know what is the Bleach logic.
    As much as these questions have troubled us, I highly doubt we will get answers. Its one of those things that happens and that's it. Kubo will not take time to explain how this works. Its not just Bleach, every series has such unexplained elements.

    Next few chapters should be a roller coaster ride. Question is how many Vandenreich members are there? Ganging up on Yama is one thing, but to take all captains and VCs, is a different story.

  7. #187
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Glassjaw003's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 483 Discussion / 484 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by ca12nag3 View Post
    So far we only know about 3 of the former 5 (now 4) great houses, thats Yuruichis, Byakuyas and the Shiba. The other 2 are unknown.
    I believe that Ichigo has nothing to do with the Shiba, at least to the point where is isn't actually a part of the noble family. It is more likely that Ichigo and Isshin are of a different noble family, possibly the one linked to the King, and that the Shiba are a brother house.

    And about Ichigo's mother, I think it not likely that she is a shinigami, if she were, he wouldn't be half human. I believe that she was in a sense like Orihime, her power grew around Isshin. If this were true, then Ichigo having a fullbring makes perfect sense, as the hollow wouldn't of attacked her because of Ichigo in the womb, but because she herself had high spiritual pressure (his being too far inside of him to sense). Then she was attacked, and killed. when the same hollow, or another, came to attack her. But instead, he targeted Ichigo, making his mother try and save him, thus kill her.

    I think it would make a lot of sense if Ichigo's father, in a sense, is like Ichigo. Think about it. Isshin is like Ichiigo, Ichigo's mom is like Orhime, Isshida's dad is like Isshida, and Chad's grandpa (if you noticed, he was able to take a lot of punches like chad, maybe the necklace around Chad's neck was his Grandpa's, or dad's fullbring item) is like Chad. Not sure if that is true.

    There is said to be five noble families, now four with the loss of the Shiba clan's nobility. Two are unknown, this could be one of two things. Ichigo's house isn't part of the Kings, yet protector of the King. Which is the reason why everyone urged Ichigo to defeat Aizen (no one went Bankai when they could have again st Aizen). This would also mean that Ichigo's dad was probably a member of the 0 Squad; all very possible.

    Another could be that Ichigo's house is indeed tied to the King, whereas he is on his path to the throne. With this, everyone could be in on helping Ichigo become powerful, maybe all the King's are half-human half-shinigami, or part shinigami, human, and hollow, thus linking everything together. With this, it is possible to believe that Isshin wasn't part of the 0 squad but in fact an ex Captain Commander who left for a reason, giving the old man his position back (out of retirement).

  8. #188
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 483 Discussion / 484 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by lunacat View Post
    i think he'll bring everyone in this arc since it's the last one, all the secrets should be revealed and all shinigamis should fight but looking at the current chapters, he's taking baby steps to show us the details and it's bothering me a lot
    you are right.perhaps kubo will reveal secrets now,and then make the mess to conclude. but make isshin already join the arc wouldn't allow him to solve the current mysteries.

  9. #189
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Bleach 483 Discussion / 484 Predictions

    @ ca12nag3
    I just think its improbable. as much as i like the idea of him being related, with your theory of masaki being a shinigami it just doesn't make sense why ichigo would be human. Obviosly isshin is a captain level or higher shinigami. So if two shinigami had kids would it not make sense that the kid would be a shinigami. That fact remains. The only other way would be if ichigo and his sisters were in gigai's the whole time, which how would they keep that from them? I'm just saying that maybe ichigo's mom was a full bringer or quincy. thats the only human powers we know of. Even if ichigos mom had any of these powers, why wouldn't she have the powers to fight off the grand fischer. i get the whole mom throwing herself under the bus to save him thing but if she had strong powers i think she could have limited the damage enough to retreat. She had some powers though, she was able to talk to ichigo through the grandfischer. If its that she had no powers at the time, why would it be that isshin and her didn't have any powers, what experiment did they do? was it so a shinigami could have kids with a human? too many questions.

    I know many wouldn't like to see it but id like to see yuzu and karin develop some powers, i mean if they're related to ichigo its likely their powers are similar to his. They have the potential to be ultimate warriors like ichigo. Maybe it'll have to wait till they're his age since his was activated when he was a mid teen. That'd pose some interesting developments. We know they too have spiritual powers, and its been hinted at many times. So why wouldn't theirs activate? Karin clearly said last arc that she wanted to protect ichigo this time. does that mean she's working on it. Urahara's been keeping a close eye on her as well. if it were the case in all likelihood they would have the same bankai or at least getsuga tenshous, since isshin has it as well.
    the whole pureblood thing intrigues me as well but well see that soon i hope.....

  10. #190
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member vizardichigo's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 483 Discussion / 484 Predictions

    @ Punisher 6 I agree...I would love for Kubo to develop Yuzu and Karin's spiritual powers...I think he was foreshadowing Karin's development during the FullBring Arc so i am pretty sure we will see more of her in the future...Not much has been shown concerning Yuzu though but im hopeful that her powers will increase as well and that they might even get to fight some fairly strong opponents.
    Thank You Kubo...You have proven once and for all, that Yamamoto Genryuusai is STRONGER THAN AIZEN SOUSUKE despite what the fanboys think

  11. #191
    The Original 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member thornofcarrion's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 483 Discussion / 484 Predictions

    If you guys/gals haven't checked it already, we have a dedicated thread for discussion about Noble and lesser noble families.

  12. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
  13. #192
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ca12nag3's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 483 Discussion / 484 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher6 View Post
    @ ca12nag3
    I just think its improbable. as much as i like the idea of him being related, with your theory of masaki being a shinigami it just doesn't make sense why ichigo would be human. Obviosly isshin is a captain level or higher shinigami. So if two shinigami had kids would it not make sense that the kid would be a shinigami. That fact remains. The only other way would be if ichigo and his sisters were in gigai's the whole time, which how would they keep that from them? I'm just saying that maybe ichigo's mom was a full bringer or quincy. thats the only human powers we know of. Even if ichigos mom had any of these powers, why wouldn't she have the powers to fight off the grand fischer. i get the whole mom throwing herself under the bus to save him thing but if she had strong powers i think she could have limited the damage enough to retreat. She had some powers though, she was able to talk to ichigo through the grandfischer. If its that she had no powers at the time, why would it be that isshin and her didn't have any powers, what experiment did they do? was it so a shinigami could have kids with a human? too many questions.

    I know many wouldn't like to see it but id like to see yuzu and karin develop some powers, i mean if they're related to ichigo its likely their powers are similar to his. They have the potential to be ultimate warriors like ichigo. Maybe it'll have to wait till they're his age since his was activated when he was a mid teen. That'd pose some interesting developments. We know they too have spiritual powers, and its been hinted at many times. So why wouldn't theirs activate? Karin clearly said last arc that she wanted to protect ichigo this time. does that mean she's working on it. Urahara's been keeping a close eye on her as well. if it were the case in all likelihood they would have the same bankai or at least getsuga tenshous, since isshin has it as well.
    the whole pureblood thing intrigues me as well but well see that soon i hope.....
    What my theory says is that 1 of the Shibas had a relation with a human > the result is a human-shinigami hybrid . Same as what Ichigo is. So what would be the problem with this Hybrid living a human life, eventually Masaki with diluted shinigami blood is born down the line and marries a full shinigami. And Ichigo is born.

    So i dont get why your saying that i claim Ichigos mom was a shinigami.

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