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Thread: Was Tobi trolling Deidara?

  1. #16
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Was Tobi trolling Deidara?

    Quote Originally Posted by Suzaku View Post
    I'm pretty sure your theory that Tobi is a "retcon" is completely incorrect. It seems to me that Kishimoto always intended him to be the man behind the scenes, and that Zetsu was simply playing along with his act (Tobi and Zetsu are stated in the official character relationship charts to be "comrades"). When he first appeared, it always gave the impression that Tobi was actually already employing the organization as its client or benefactor, but wanted to get into the action despite possibly not being up to par with the other members.

    As for the rings, they only mattered in as much as they were required to use the Gedo Mazo extraction and sealing technique on the Tailed Beasts, and were likely only needed because directly synchronizing with the statue normally places a tremendous strain on the user. Even missing just a few members would increase the extraction time to a number of days, as I recall.

    When Kishimoto gets into exploring the origins of the Gedo Mazo (probably tied into the Sage of the Six Paths and the Ten Tailed Beast), it will probably explain what the rings are and where they came from.
    While I prefer to not look into Tobi's past because it gets all confusing (and also because Kishi has made so many hints that he was a retconned character), you seem to be sure that Kishi's plan with Tobi was stable from the start. So I guess I'll ask these questions.

    Why did Tobi's personality change so swiftly? It's almost unbelievable that he went from this goofy, comic to this dark, evil mastermind. And he never once went back to that personality.

    Did Tobi actually found Akatsuki? It was confirmed that Nagato/Yahiko started it to "bring peace" to the world.

    If Tobi didn't found Akatsuki, then why was he able to form a good relationship with Nagato so easily as to become co-leader of Akatsuki and leave the group temporarily for research purposes only to come back as a "new recruit"?

    Why did Nagato betray Tobi so easily if they had these great plans for world peace? Let's remember that if they were working together, they planned everything out for years, and yet, Naruto changed Nagato's mind so swiftly. Almost as if Nagato never really cared or associated himself with Tobi, when that seems to be the polar-opposite if you look at all of this in perspective.

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  3. #17
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Franckie's Avatar
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    Re: Was Tobi trolling Deidara?

    Quote Originally Posted by Suzaku View Post
    I'm pretty sure your theory that Tobi is a "retcon" is completely incorrect. It seems to me that Kishimoto always intended him to be the man behind the scenes, and that Zetsu was simply playing along with his act (Tobi and Zetsu are stated in the official character relationship charts to be "comrades"). When he first appeared, it always gave the impression that Tobi was actually already employing the organization as its client or benefactor, but wanted to get into the action despite possibly not being up to par with the other members.
    We know Kishimoto has made major changes to the storyline over the years. For example, Orochimaru was the intended main villain of the series before Oro was swapped for Nagato and Nagato was then swapped for Tobi. (Tobi will be swapped with Kabuto at this rate.)

    Furthermore, if you look at the start of Part II, you had multiple plotlines that were all interdependent of each other. As the story continued additional subplots such as the Root subplot were introduced to the story but after the "Tobi is da mastermind!" relevation the story magically only has one major plotline, the Uchiha revenge story. The logical conclusion is that Kishimoto made the story simpler so it could resolved more neater/quicker, a feat that Kishimoto has admitted to on frequent basis over the years.

    You also have to look at the backstory and see how Tobi's status as "mastermind" has led to several major plotholes. Take a look at these two examples:

    Plothole #1: Why did Tobi never capture Naruto? Capturing him would have been a two-minute job at best. Even after Tobi gave "dire warnings" to Pein on multiple occassions Tobi never once lifted a finger against Naruto, despite having everything to gain if he did so. It makes 0 sense to see Tobi repeatedly fleeing from Naruto as he has been doing, and let's not forget he tried to kill him just a moment ago too.

    Plothole #2: The relevation that Tobi bestowed Nagato the Rinnegan and has been manipulating him since the day he was born. It's garbage writing considering we have explicit evidence of Nagato repeatedly coming close to being killed over the years. For example, a stray explosive tag during Hanzou vs Sannin nearly killed him. Why would Tobi give an untrained child the most powerful doujutsu in history of the Narutoverse and leave him unattended? Does that make any sense whatsoever? No. Dictating Nagato and Yahiko to create Akatsuki also fail to make any sense since Akatsuki was initially a reaction to Hanzou's warmongering + Jiraiya's ideals, and Tobi had no influence whatsoever over that.

    Judging by the author's latest writings, he has probably been influenced by the wave of recent mangas where you have one dominant villain for the series: The World Government of One Piece, Aizen from Bleach, Father from Fullmetal Alchemist, etc. Having one major antagonist for an entire series simplifies the writing process and allows for a more coherent story. Considering the state of the story before the "Tobi is da Mastermind!" writing (it was appalling and I'll just leave it as that) he decided to do away with what he originally had planned (e.g. Nagato's and Danzou's plotlines that went nowhere) and went for one main villain that would tie Naruto's background to Sasuke's background and continue the trend of where the plot was really about Sasuke all along.

    Quote Quote:
    As for the rings, they only mattered in as much as they were required to use the Gedo Mazo extraction and sealing technique on the Tailed Beasts, and were likely only needed because directly synchronizing with the statue normally places a tremendous strain on the user. Even missing just a few members would increase the extraction time to a number of days, as I recall.
    After Deidara got two of his arms blown off his number one concern was finding his ring. After Sasori died the #1 concern Zetsu and Tobi had was finding Sasori's ring. After Orochimaru left the Akatsuki were delayed for years until Pein found a solution to the problem.

    What happened as the story continued? Hidan? Nobody cares. Kakuzu? Nobody cares. Itachi? Nobody cares. Pein? Nobody cares. Konan? Nobody cares. Kisame? Nobody cares. Notice a trend here?

    I should also point out the switch in stated targets. Initially it was Naruto but after Tobi showed up nobody cared about him. It all came to be about Sasuke all of a sudden. Tobi has ran from Naruto on multiple occassions and even tried to kill him last chapter.

    Quote Quote:
    When Kishimoto gets into exploring the origins of the Gedo Mazo (probably tied into the Sage of the Six Paths and the Ten Tailed Beast), it will probably explain what the rings are and where they came from.
    Or the author continues to forget about them as he has been doing for the past several hundred chapters.
    Last edited by Franckie; March 02, 2012 at 05:28 PM.

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  5. #18
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    Re: Was Tobi trolling Deidara?

    i found this epic video

    i think tobi was definitely trolling deidra, sure he had to fool everyone by exhibiting a different personality

    but you can tell he was getting a kick out of pissing deidra off


  6. #19
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member 1337 haxor's Avatar
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    Cool Well...

    While I do agree that there were retcons since when authors begin a story they hardly know how successful and lasting their errand might become, I can trace Tobi back to the end of part I and Kakashi's Gaiden.

    The reason behind Tobi's early stupidity is actually far more complex than most people know and Kishimoto will hardly give a direct explanation on the subject since there were many facts in the manga's context which served to justify it.

    Pay attention because this is gonna be one hell of a mindscrew...

    Spoiler show


    As for the Akatsuki Rings...

    Spoiler show


    As for why didn't Tobi go after Naruto during the series before the latter was a bad ass?

    Spoiler show


    In a nutshell, as much as we rage, Kishimoto's writting has been consistent and most plot holes aren't relevant enough to make the current story conflitant.

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    Re: Was Tobi trolling Deidara?

    well i like your theory on tobis reason for faking to be goofy

    but some of the thinga he said to deidra, (like asking if his art was a cheap rippoff compared to the pottery in that shop)
    were said solely to piss deidra off because tobi knew he was a loose cannon

  9. #21
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member nitsthegame's Avatar
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    Re: Was Tobi trolling Deidara?

    well actually it is Kishi who trolled us..

    When Kishi made the character he didnt knew who exactly tobi was, so he made him look stupid, then he realised that he was madara's incarnation types and in the end he did some fanservice and ruined the character by declaring him Obito.

    Kishi trolled us hard


    visit me here

  10. #22
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Was Tobi trolling Deidara?

    At first he was trolling Deidara...

    Then after it was revealed he was Obito... Now he is trolling us...

  11. #23
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member 102jayday's Avatar
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    Re: Was Tobi trolling Deidara?

    Well I guess this is how Obito is when around someone he likes, it's sort of like how he was as a kid and when Deidara dies he breaks the playful and says like shame you were one of the only people I could have fun with. I remember it being something like that..

    Manga Berserk, Gantz, Rurouni Kenshin, Claymore<3 Fav Anime FMAB! Gundam seed, Nana, InitialD.

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  13. #24
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    Re: Was Tobi trolling Deidara?

    Quote Originally Posted by 102jayday View Post
    Well I guess this is how Obito is when around someone he likes, it's sort of like how he was as a kid and when Deidara dies he breaks the playful and says like shame you were one of the only people I could have fun with. I remember it being something like that..
    i could tell he liked deidra, hell how could you NOT like deidra??

    only sasori was really annoyed by deidra

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