Bleach 484 Discussion

[OtakuModeEngage]

I think Yamamoto is quite a bit older than Unohana, Aizen said he is the living history of SS. There was an anime omake about him, he hadn't changed a bit since the times Shunsui and Ukitake were in the academy. lol I may be wrong but I think the exact time when Gotei 13 was founded is a matter of debate. To the best of my knowledge, the English translation of Bleach Souls character book states that it was Yamamoto who founded Gotei 13 but there's no such line in original Japanese text, I don't know whether it's misleading information or not. People who have more knowledge about the subject can clarify the issue.

Regardless, I think a conflict with Vandenreich 1000 years ago might have led to the events which resulted in Yamamoto being appointed as the CC. I posted a theory about Vandenreich people in Vandenreich - Mega Convo Thread, I have a feeling that this is not the first time they're causing trouble to SS. It seems they also have a vendetta against Yamamoto, they addressed Yamamoto by his name and injured his VC gravely as a warning. It's as if their goal is not to give CC a heads-up, but rather to let him know (and fear) that everything he has been fighting for until now will be destroyed.

Lol, you contradict yourself. If he's the 'living history', then he has been around since the beginning, and if he is about a thousand years old, then we can date the beginning of the Gotei at a 1000 years. This is probably the reason the English version of the Bleach Souls character book wrote that he founded the Gotei 13, because the fact had already been inferred by Aizen. I agree, the conflict a thousand years ago let to the conditioning of the current soul society.

---------- Post added at 05:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:17 PM ----------

not so much a fan of the 'Vend Reich are former soul reapers' theory though...

[Miyagi]

Well, we know that Yamamoto is at least 2100 years old due to the fact that he founded Shinō Academy. I don't say Yamamoto is 1000 years old or something, I think you misunderstood me, it's just that I considered the possibility that there was a CC before him who died 1000 years ago and was replaced by Yamamoto. IMHO it makes more sense that Gotei 13 is older than Shinō Academy, otherwise it would be like having a military academy without an army, which is kinda pointless.

If Vandenreich fought against SS 1000 years ago, there must have been some sort of regular army, be it called "Gotei 13" or something else. When Yamamoto said he had been the strongest shinigami for 1000 years, I think he hinted that there was someone superior (either in power or rank/status) to him 1000 years ago. The war possibly resulted in this person's death but Vandenreich was possibly defeated with Yamamoto's great efforts (earning him the rank of CC), this is why they hold a grudge against him and notified him in advance that SS would be destroyed. This was my main point.

[FetherMan]

Well, we know that Yamamoto is at least 2100 years old due to the fact that he founded Shinō Academy. I don't say Yamamoto is 1000 years old or something, I think you misunderstood me, it's just that I considered the possibility that there was a CC before him who died 1000 years ago and was replaced by Yamamoto. IMHO it makes more sense that Gotei 13 is older than Shinō Academy, otherwise it would be like having a military academy without an army, which is kinda pointless.

If Vandenreich fought against SS 1000 years ago, there must have been some sort of regular army, be it called "Gotei 13" or something else. When Yamamoto said he had been the strongest shinigami for 1000 years, I think he hinted that there was someone superior (either in power or rank/status) to him 1000 years ago. The war possibly resulted in this person's death but Vandenreich was possibly defeated with Yamamoto's great efforts (earning him the rank of CC), this is why they hold a grudge against him and notified him in advance that SS would be destroyed. This was my main point.

that's good point. especially considering that, Kubo has already hinted that some of Soul Society's history will be revealed in this final arc. The Empire King or whatever, may have been there from the beginning establishment of Soul Society.

[ROGER]

I'm assuming Mayuri created these people from combining hollows and Quinchi's lol.

[Zehahaha]

Ah yes, I forgot about Unohana, she was also included in this group... interesting though, how she aged gracefully whereas Yamamoto's health seems to be in decline. Regardless, I don't recall the exact quote, but I remember it being said that Yamamoto has been with the grotei 13 since its beginning.

Eh... Yamamoto's health in decline ? Never read something like that... Funny how even Ukitake commented that even with Yamamoto losing his arm, he's still as strong as he was before.
All we know is that Yamamoto was in his position for the past 1000 year, it was said also that he's the one created the Academy. One thing is sure, the fact that the location of the Ouken is transmitted between Head Captains, so it means there must have been other Head Captains before Yamamoto, so SS existed way before Yamamoto IMO.

[OtakuModeEngage]

Eh... Yamamoto's health in decline ? Never read something like that... Funny how even Ukitake commented that even with Yamamoto losing his arm, he's still as strong as he was before.
All we know is that Yamamoto was in his position for the past 1000 year, it was said also that he's the one created the Academy. One thing is sure, the fact that the location of the Ouken is transmitted between Head Captains, so it means there must have been other Head Captains before Yamamoto, so SS existed way before Yamamoto IMO.

Oh, I'm afraid you misunderstood me, let me repeat my key words, 'aged gracefully'. We can date Ukitake, Uonahana, and Kyōraku at at least a thousand years of age, and they still maintain what seems to be mid twenties early thirties. And the latest date we have for Yamamoto is 2500 years ago, with is a little over half, and short put him at his mid forties, early fifties. Not to mention with the physical conditioning he keeps his body in, and surely a warriors diet, there is no way he should have the appearance of someone in their mid sixties, early seventies. But that's just looking at his physical appearance and disregarding that with age, however, it is an indisputable fact the body does indeed decline with, which would likely be the reason his physical appearance is so weary. He may still remain the strongest captain, but there is no way he could still be in his peak form. His restsu may not have faded on bit perhaps; but the condition of his body, and therefor its strength, is undeniably declining.

---------- Post added at 05:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:18 PM ----------

Its also been stated that he founded the Gotei 13, http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Genry%C...ekuni_Yamamoto , but that is a question under debate. Of course, the soul society has been around longer than that, so in my opinion it was either army-less or had a different army before this point in time. Which could be a reasonable consequence of the first war with Vander Reich

---------- Post added at 05:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:24 PM ----------

The website that I linked cites this claim, but the citation does not adequately do it justice.

[Darjaille]

Ad in WSJ #16 about Bleach's absence:

Kubo had the flu, and it was so bad that they yanked Bleach for one issue.

Should be noted that they only 'plan' to have it back in issue 17, rather than it being a guarantee. So I guess his condition isn't at a point that they want to make promises.

I hope Kubo gets better soon. It's possible next week Bleach will be on a break again, but I hope Kubo managed to recover quickly and we'll have a chapter. If not, can't be helped. IIRC he was seriously ill a year ago around this time as well, so I'd rather to see him healthy than to have a chapter and have Kubo overwork himself/be ill again soon.

[Zehahaha]

His restsu may not have faded on bit perhaps; but the condition of his body, and therefor its strength, is undeniably declining.

Now see, his feats that he showcased at fake Karakura prove you wrong. Have we ever seen someone OS an Arrancar with a punch ? I'm sure as hell we haven't seen any Shinigami pull such a feat. Also, have we seen someone tanking an explosion that could've destroyed Karakura and still be able afterward to use a high level Kido enough to make Aizen to doubt for a second ?

Yamamoto's reiatsu and physical strenght are abnormal, not a single captain can pull what he has done. And also, we have never seen a fight showing Yamamoto, let's just say 1000 year ago, to compare between his state back then and now.

And about aging gracefully, again, we have not seen a young Yamamoto nor do we know his age, same with Unohana, Ukitake...

[BaddAzzKenpachi74]

we have not seen a young Yamamoto nor do we know his age, same with Unohana, Ukitake...

Uhhh......

We haven't seen a young Unohana but we have certainly seen a young Ukitake during his and Kyoraku's days at the academy.

Since they where the FIRST graduates from the academy to become Captains after Yama created it that wouild put the time around 2000 or at the least 1000 years ago since it was said that it was founded around that time.

[Zehahaha]

Uhhh......

We haven't seen a young Unohana but we have certainly seen a young Ukitake during his and Kyoraku's days at the academy.

Since they where the FIRST graduates from the academy after Yama created it that wouild put the time around 2000 years ago since it was said that it was founded around that time. That would also mean that when Yama founded it he was not the head CC.

Erm please, I'm not talking about the whole Academy and timeline stuff, I'm talking about whether Yamamoto's strenght as OtakeModeEngage sais is declining or not.
I said that we haven't see a young Yamamoto, or Unohana, or even young Ukitake fighting to see wether they've aged gracefully, and also we haven't see a young Yamamoto to say that he's strenght is declining.

[BaddAzzKenpachi74]

Erm please, I'm not talking about the whole Academy and timeline stuff, I'm talking about whether Yamamoto's strenght as OtakeModeEngage sais is declining or not.
I said that we haven't see a young Yamamoto, or Unohana, or even young Ukitake fighting to see wether they've aged gracefully, and also we haven't see a young Yamamoto to say that he's strenght is declining.

erm well, you should have worded that last part of your post a little better to clarify that you meant IN BATTLE rather than just "aging gracefully". Just a suggestion...

[espadaboyzz]

Im sorry to ask, because im a little bit confuse with this break issues. Is it Kubo draw each chapter for each week? Or he already draw the future chapter? If he already draw future chapter, why chapter should be break if he get ill? Sorry, just curious.

[OtakuModeEngage]

Now see, his feats that he showcased at fake Karakura prove you wrong. Have we ever seen someone OS an Arrancar with a punch ? I'm sure as hell we haven't seen any Shinigami pull such a feat. Also, have we seen someone tanking an explosion that could've destroyed Karakura and still be able afterward to use a high level Kido enough to make Aizen to doubt for a second ?

Yamamoto's reiatsu and physical strenght are abnormal, not a single captain can pull what he has done. And also, we have never seen a fight showing Yamamoto, let's just say 1000 year ago, to compare between his state back then and now.

And about aging gracefully, again, we have not seen a young Yamamoto nor do we know his age, same with Unohana, Ukitake...

Once again, I'm not denying the fact that he's still bad-ass and the current strongest -except for God Mode Aizen and final Zangetsu Ichigo-, but if we judge his physical appearance alone, then he has declined from his younger days... unless you believe he was born an old man? Furthermore, the decline of a physical appearance is directly chained with physical strength, speed, endurance, stamina, ect. An old body, just doesn't have the power of a young one, even if it remains in top condition, because the top condition plausible for someone in their 80s is far lower than the top condition for some in their 20s; that's why I said its impossible for Yamamoto to still be at his peek physical condition.

However, the soul, and therefore, the retsu, does not age; which is why his punches are so strong. Or do you believe the punches are raw physical power, take another look at his build, and you'll find that's impossible. Lets take Ichigo for example, when he lost his soul reaper powers there was no way he could send someone flying through walls with the sheer physical strength of his sword swing alone, but he could do it when he was a soul reaper. Did his physical strength change between these two periods, no, only his retsu. Even with a ridiculous build, such a feat is impossible in real life; physical strength is not enough.

[mattiaildivino]

Im sorry to ask, because im a little bit confuse with this break issues. Is it Kubo draw each chapter for each week? Or he already draw the future chapter? If he already draw future chapter, why chapter should be break if he get ill? Sorry, just curious.

he and his staff draw the chapter,which will be out 3 weeks later. so he should have had the possibility to let it come out. Yet,I'm not so certain about that,and I fear noone here knows every detail. we can just hope kubo will restore and that the chapters will come out regularly.

[FetherMan]

@Oberon. thanks for the update.

as much as i would like to see Bleach back, I wouldn't wish for Kubo's health to be on the line, for such a request.
If he needs to take a year off or more than do so. no one's life is worth less than a imaginary comic.

get well soon, Kubo.