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Thread: Claymore 125 Discussion

  1. #451
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Dark Night's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 125 Discussion / 126 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by number12michael View Post
    dude re read the manga Miria most defiantly has what it takes to kill the MIB, in her eys they are no longer human, but something even worse then the monsters they create. so she should kill them but knowing how her Character has been developing as of late i could see a lame change of heart.....do you not remember any of the whole Tabitha getting cut my Miria, and Galatea telling Tabitha that Miria did it because she was going to kill humans for the first time, as killing the Organisations men is what it means to bring its destruction
    I do remember all that. And I think if it came to it, Miria would have the guts to kill them. But you also need to re-read the last few chapters. Then you'll see that Claymore has lost some of its grim, gritty reality in which Miria could dispatch them without hesitation.

    Don't get me wrong, those guys (except for Dae, he's awesome ) need to die. At least the head honchos. But like you said, Miria has just undergone a great ordeal, and it has most likely changed her.

    Carebear. That's what Shiek likes to call her, right? Well, whether Miria likes it or not, she has become the default leader of the remaining warriors.

    The Miria who cut Tabitha down and headed for the Organization would kill them. This Miria though... I fear they are not exactly the same person.

  2. #452
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member number12michael's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 125 Discussion / 126 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Night View Post
    I do remember all that. And I think if it came to it, Miria would have the guts to kill them. But you also need to re-read the last few chapters. Then you'll see that Claymore has lost some of its grim, gritty reality in which Miria could dispatch them without hesitation.

    Don't get me wrong, those guys (except for Dae, he's awesome ) need to die. At least the head honchos. But like you said, Miria has just undergone a great ordeal, and it has most likely changed her.

    Carebear. That's what Shiek likes to call her, right? Well, whether Miria likes it or not, she has become the default leader of the remaining warriors.

    The Miria who cut Tabitha down and headed for the Organization would kill them. This Miria though... I fear they are not exactly the same person.
    Sadly i think your right T.T just when i was starting to like Miria then she had to go all soft >.<

  3. #453
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 125 Discussion / 126 Predictions

    @littleangel
    I didn't forget about Alicia and Beth. I'll try and respond to that later. For now let me only say that there are many ways to interpret that scene.

    BTW, where's Tabitha's punch to Miria's face for wounding her and leaving her in Rabona? And everyone else's for that matter as Deneve promised? I hope Yagi will deliver it next chapter.

  4. #454
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 125 Discussion / 126 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Goral View Post
    @littleangel
    I didn't forget about Alicia and Beth. I'll try and respond to that later. For now let me only say that there are many ways to interpret that scene.

    BTW, where's Tabitha's punch to Miria's face for wounding her and leaving her in Rabona? And everyone else's for that matter as Deneve promised? I hope Yagi will deliver it next chapter.
    Yagi's forgotten about that. Seeing her "role model" made Tabitha forget about it, and only want to support Miria from the side, like always. Deneve just failed on that one, I don't know. I'm expecting some conversation about Claire, now that Raki's here, and maybe some shots of Dae and Rubel, but that's about it. I don't think we'll see Priscilla and Claire for two chapters.

  5. #455
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member littleangel's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 125 Discussion / 126 Predictions

    Quote Quote:
    @littleangel
    I didn't forget about Alicia and Beth. I'll try and respond to that later. For now let me only say that there are many ways to interpret that scene.
    I will be waiting but to tell the truth, Yagi wont make Riful look like a liar or a fool since to me I believe she is one of his favorite characters he made in Claymore (but many says it is the opposite because of the way she died in but I believe that they are mistaken; the way she died in was full of emotions and she fought tell the last breath just like Isley but she didn't have the opportunity to show what she had because of the destroyer's attack)..

  6. #456
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Claymore 125 Discussion / 126 Predictions

    About time he stopped stalling, seriously most of Mirias arc seems mostly done to get time to figure out what he plays on doing with the rest of the story.Those 3 new ABs that he pulled out of his ass were quite boring, now they are dead im guessing he prolly figured out what he gonna do with the story, i can either see the manga ending in like 5-10 chapters or turning into something like berserk sort of no end in sight for a very long time.

    I think the story is gonna go 2 possible paths, either it will be restricted to the island and therefore it will end in 5-10 chapters, since there isnt much left to be done on the island.All the tough opponents are dead, Cassandra being the last AB alive but if they manage to kill Priscilla which im guessing will be the next focus of the story Cassandra would be childs play to deal with.The organization is already defeated all claymores and traines turned against them, all we would have left is facing off Priscilla and maybe an epilogue.

    On the other hand if the author decides to stretch the history beyond the island it prolly would take ages for this manga to reach its end, no idea how he would do it, but involving the current claymores/island on a war that has being going on for hundreds of years on a month manga would take forever to come to a conclusion.

  7. #457
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 125 Discussion / 126 Predictions

    @littleangel
    Spoiler: Long reply to littleangel show

  8. #458
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member littleangel's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 125 Discussion / 126 Predictions

    Goral I have read it and it has lots of logic but lots of holes as well but it will take a very long time to replay and because I have lab finals so I will respond soon as I find time..
    And Nixl I keep getting error 3005 I wanna play D3 .. Demon Hunter I wanna fight using you ..

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  10. #459
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 125 Discussion / 126 Predictions

    I know littleangel. But that's precisely my point. Both theories have holes and there are contradicting infos in the manga. As for the reply, you don't need to hurry. Probably we'll be the only ones who will be reading it anyway ;P. So you can respond even 1 month from now and it won't make much of a difference. I'll be sure to read it anyway .

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  12. #460
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Claymore 125 Discussion / 126 Predictions

    I'm also a firm believer in the theory that half-awakening does not increase yoki size per se, but merely allows access to those beyond-limit stores without actually awakening—something non-HA warriors are incapable of doing, and because they are able to access those "forbidden" yoki stores, they are able to augment their other statistics, say, agility or strength, to a greater degree than non-HA warriors. So in the end, it just seems like they have more yoki, but they don't. Actually, I'd go so far as to say that I believe that yoki size is fixed upon a claymore's creation and no amount of training, meditation or see-saw awakening can increase it further.

    Would this make Riful's statement false, then? Not really. I believe that Riful was hoping that Clare, Galatea and Jean would increase their other statistics, for I believe that the end-point augmentation received from awakening depends on the baseline statistic at the time of awakening. While I hold no proof of this, it certainly is a logical thing to believe, would you not agree?
    Last edited by Fermat; April 20, 2012 at 10:38 PM.

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  14. #461
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 125 Discussion / 126 Predictions

    @Fermat
    I agree for the most part. I've mentioned about increase of baseline statistics in the last part of my post (last 'spoiler') by writing "it was possible thanks to getting more access to her powers and being more compatible with youma material plus some basic strength increase not because her youki has increased." But IMO power-up of baseline statistics is still relatively insignificant when compared to awakening. After all every stat depends on youki (hence Teresa was faster and stronger than anyone) and even after intense training Miria wasn't even close to Hysteria's speed unless she cheated. So the power up of basic strength should be minor when compared to the power of an awakened. Maybe this power-up would be significantly bigger than what humans could do (like going from lifting 50 kg to 150 in a matter of 10 years for example) since they aren't exactly humans any more but still it should be insignificant (if we assume that amount of youki is fixed).

    After all claymore's powers don't come from the strength of their muscles but from demon energy (Riful and especially Priscilla are the best examples of that, they were fragile but became the most powerful women on the island and maybe the whole world). That Clare could lift a claymore didn't come out of her being wiry or being athletic but because of youriki. The fact that Teresa could lift 40 kg when she was human and Priscilla 30 kg means nothing because after hybrydization they could lift hundreds times that. If it was true that someone with better physical body would have better chances of becoming stronger, claymore men would have an advantage from the start and we haven't seen that.

    BTW, we don't know whether Miria's old phantom has become faster than 7 years ago, no one commented on it AFAIR and there were ghosts there later (plus I think Miria herself would notice the difference but she didn't say anything). Not sure if you'll agree with me but the way I see it Miria was making her cloaked version of phantom faster (by better using youki internally) while the old phantom's speed wasn't significantly increased until she went to the limit of awakening (or beyond that even).

    I also think that there is a possibility HAs could become stronger ABs thanks to experience they would have. What I mean by that isn't stronger power-wise but technique-wise. If Helen was using her limb stretching for years she would fit into it as an AB perfectly and possibly could find more advantages of her AB body faster than your average fresh AB.

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  16. #462
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Nixl's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 125 Discussion / 126 Predictions

    I thought in the duel between Claire and Miria in the 60s chapters that either Deneve or Helen commented that Miria lost some speed to her phantom, but in turn became more efficient in terms of how many she could perform.

    I'll have to reread once I get the chance.


    Diablo 3 beta has me sold. It is funny considering I was going to ignore it completely till a few hours ago.

  17. #463
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
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    Re: Claymore 125 Discussion / 126 Predictions

    The only problem I see in the goral opinion is as follows:
    If the yoki not increase, ¿are you saying that Yuma has the same yoki that in Pieta "7 years before"? This would indicate that now, she has the one-digit level but her yoki is weak. (your yoki was weak, remember that not even mentioned by Rigardo) And whenever we have seen a digit claymore, always was a strong yoki.

    Anyway, the rest of your argument is quite logical.
    Last edited by su5so; April 21, 2012 at 05:39 AM.

  18. #464
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Claymore 125 Discussion / 126 Predictions

    @Goral: Indeed, yoki augmentation of a statistic has far greater impact than, say, increasing the statistic up a notch, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's insignificant.

    Consider the following scenario: Let's say that strength is measured by maximum attainable force, say, E = 100 N, D = 200 N, C = 300 N, B = 400 N, A = 500 N, and S = 600 N. Consider Warrior X has a strength increase factor of 1.2 times for every 10% yoki release up to 80% and follows the equation y = ab^x where y is the endpoint strength, a is the baseline strength, b is the factor by which strength increases with yoki release and x is the yoki release itself. If Warrior X had a baseline statistic of C and she had to increase her force to, say, 1,200 N in order to cut through an AB's armor, she would have to release 76.04% of her yoki—a near-limit-crossing release. However, if she had a baseline statistic of B, she would only need to augment her strength with a 60.26% release; at A, 48.02%; and at S, 38.02%. Also, consider a 70% release from Warrior X, who has a baseline strength of C, to Warrior Y, who has a baseline strength of B but with the same strength increase factor. Warrior X would be able to produce 1,074.95 N of force, whereas Warrior Y would be able to produce 1,433.27 N. That's a difference of 358.32 N which isn't too small a value.

    Of course, this is merely a hypothetical array. For all we know, the equation may not be exponential but a higher polynomial function. Perhaps the augmentation factor relies on the actual raw units of yoki energy released and not the percentage of release (though it would just mean a different "statistic increase factor"). In any case, you could plug in values that would make Goral's assumption true, i.e. that baseline statistics are insignificant. However, the point of the post was to illustrate that there exists a hypothetical statistic-yoki formula in which they are significant enough.

    @su5so: I do believe so. Remember, though yoki plays a big role in ranking, other statistics are relevant as well. It's quite possible that Yuma has, say, a C or a D for yoki, but quite a bit of B's and C's in other areas.

    P.S. I'm sure I'm gonna receive some hate mail for the math.

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  20. #465
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Dark Night's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 125 Discussion / 126 Predictions

    *Takes a look at Fermat's post*

    what language he's speaking but it's on the internets so it must be true.


    Anyway, since we're having fun speculating, I was wondering what the Org measures when it comes to yoki. Baseline? 10%? 70%?

    If Galatea has the highest release factor, then is it possible her maximum (70 - 79%) might put her above a hypothetical number 2 who has a higher baseline yoki but a crappy release factor?

    If the Org could measure (Claymore) Priscilla's yoki when she hits 70% +, then I doubt they would give her just an A+ there.

    And since yoki does impact most of the other stats when you release it, I'm left wondering why Irene didn't consider the fact that once Teresa released her yoki it would catapult her strength, agility and speed far beyond what she (Irene), Noel and Sophia could achieve in those categories.
    The only answer I see is that she actually had never seen Teresa release her yoki, otherwise she'd never have made those comments.

    Which leads me to wonder how the Org could assign Teresa an S in yoki when the one person who seemed to know her well [relative] didn't actually know her that much.

    I wish Yagi could come out and explain some of those stuff, though then the speculating would sadly cease.

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