Kisame & Itachi vs 3 Sannin

[Gats]

How come tenten is the best ninja in this thread? damn.

What are you talking about ?

[xXan]

@marshall313

He used it on kakashi then wat? He hold his left eye. why? simply because he feel the side effect of his tsukuyomi. Maybe your forgetting something that every MS jutsu, there's a side effect when itachi/sasuke used it. Even kakashi, your so called proof stated that itachi's tsukuyomi is so dangerous to his eyes. because it needs alot of chakra. So your theory about the breaking of sasuke to itachi's tsukuyomi is nonsense.

He never put his hand on his eye after using it vs Kakashi... The only thinks you post are nonsense.

He used his tsukuyomi on Sasuke here:
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/148
Not holding his eye.

The side effects are the going blind part... Yeah you are still at nonsense level and you can't even get your fact right.

No. show it to me the manga scan where kakashi stated that. He just stated that "why itachi never kill him''. There's no such thing as kakashi stated that why itachi never killed him inside of the tsukuyomi world.

http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/142/18

He states there Itachi was holding him inside the genjutsu for 3 days and asking himself why he never just killed him.. If you belive he was refering to the days they used to play poker.... Its obviously about the genjutsu, if you can't figure that out ...

No. you stated that itachi can used the 3 MS jutsu in 10 seconds, meaning it was the amaterasu, tsukuyomi and susanoo in 10 seconds. Show us the manga proof. And not sasuke because where talking about itachi. Show me the manga page where itachi used his 3 MS jutsu tp his enemy/ies. Where we seen the most epic chapter of all, itachi killing his enemy by, amaterasu, tsukuyomi and susanoo. And boom, his enemy is no match for him in 10 seconds.

Wow, just wow... No it does not have to be that and yes he can do that. We know how much time he needs to cast 1 of them... Just multiply that by a factor of 3. I already showed you he can use 3 MS jutsus in sequences...

So does all of them happen in 10 seconds? and what you said is he used his 3 MS jutsu in 10 second. and not he used his one MS jutsu 3x.

He used his 3 MS jutsu is different from He used his MS jutsu 3x.

I am lost for words here... I really hope the above does not describe your IQ level..

All for your arguments are nonsense. kakashi was left alive? how so? itachi clearly said "kill kakashi kisame". So kakashi was alive because of gai and not that he was let alive.

Pff...

Wow, these debates will never end. Whenever ppl argue about Itachi fighting someone - for 50% it's Itachi who obviously wins, for others, who actually can think not only with their emotions and feelings - there are plenty of different outcomes.

Itachi vs Every Kage - win / vs Every Akatsuki including Pein - win ofc / vs The Legendary Sannins - win / and so on.

Why? Because there is genjutsu, Tsukuyomi... Right... And Susanoo, and Amaterasu... Aren't you guys tired of this?

If Itachi can solely defeat three sannins, separately or all together, then following this logic, he can beat everyone, literally.

Yes, he is important to the story, yes he is strong and very intelligent, but fight is about tacticts, strategy and if there is a jutsu - then there's also an antijutsu, so to speak.

Stop being kids, just accept he is not the strongest, just accept he can fail and lose, and live with it.

So other people are kids because they try to make a logical debate with feats? What are you considering you added nothing to the disscusion aside from calling people kids? Really mature. Now perhaps you got some facts to?

[vanyar]

Now perhaps you got some facts to?

I have already told you the facts, you just don't like them.

Jiraiya would die, but so would Itachi.

[xXan]

I have already told you the facts, you just don't like them.

Jiraiya would die, but so would Itachi.

How would JMan get trough Susano? All Itachi needs to do is look at JMan and JMan dies. Try again.

Itachi can tank THE ENTIRE GROUP for 10 mins + before he drops Susano(aka 10 minutes of GOD MODE). They can't do shit to get trough it. So as i said try again as Itachi is going to have 0 problems in those 10 minutes to look at all 3 of them and state Amaterasu, Amaterasu, Amaterasu (or MS genjutsu).

[jaymizzo]

How would JMan get trough Susano? All Itachi needs to do is look at JMan and JMan dies. Try again.

This is what i have been talking about. How the hell is this any sort of argument?

And your discounting a lot of things, they all have elements. Swamp of the underworld would keep Itachi and his God mode at bay, but i guess Jiraiya cant use that because he will be in an instant genjutsu from breathing the same air as Itachi.

[Rikudou King]

It's a reasonable question. Elements aren't gonna matter against the Yata Mirror, which can counter any ninjutsu. Even if Swamp of the Underworld does trap him, all that means is that Itachi can't move Susanoo, which doesn't prevent him from still shooting out Amaterasu and Magatama techniques.

[vanyar]

How would JMan get trough Susano? All Itachi needs to do is look at JMan and JMan dies. Try again.

According to you, not Itachi and Kisame.

Itachi can tank THE ENTIRE GROUP for 10 mins + before he drops Susano(aka 10 minutes of GOD MODE). They can't do shit to get trough it. So as i said try again as Itachi is going to have 0 problems in those 10 minutes to look at all 3 of them and state Amaterasu, Amaterasu, Amaterasu (or MS genjutsu).

According to you, not Itachi and Kisame.

Your claims are completely subjective which would be fine if they were not contradicted by the manga.

[Rikudou King]

Except it's the series itself that has shown that dealing with Itachi and Kisame would be very challenging alone, much less when they're together. The series has made a huge deal over the power of MS and Itachi's skills at placing people in genjutsu. The series has shown the threat that Susanoo poses, such as the two strongest ninjas around were needed to even crack a weaken version of it. All that counters this is a statement by a known liar who didn't want to fight in the first place.

[xXan]

This is what i have been talking about. How the hell is this any sort of argument?

And your discounting a lot of things, they all have elements. Swamp of the underworld would keep Itachi and his God mode at bay, but i guess Jiraiya cant use that because he will be in an instant genjutsu from breathing the same air as Itachi.

What? What is that even suposed to mean? What is the relevance of your post? Where are the counters to Itachi sitting inside Susano and sniping them with Amaterasu or MS genjutsu? What i said are valid arguments based on Itachi's jutsus now give me counters and don't tell me its JMan's hair...

PS. I don't think you know but that mirror takes diferent properties to counter diferent elements, it would just use some raiton crep to cancel the swamp...

According to you, not Itachi and Kisame.



According to you, not Itachi and Kisame.

Your claims are completely subjective which would be fine if they were not contradicted by the manga.

Perhaps you can also enlighten me what part of the manga is contradicting me? This is what i am talking about, you people make statemants but don't bother to bring ANY evidence or back up your words...

Both of your posts, you and jaymizzo have no facts or any type of counter arguments but i got used to this type of posts from Minato's fans.

PS. Its not subjective. I posted Itachi's jutsus now you posts JMan's and the rest of his team counters to them. I made a basic tactic that a 5 years old could think of ... Someone on Itachi's level would have no problem thinking: OHHHH i know i can sit inside Susano and go god mode for 10 mins and snipe them all with Amaterasu...

[jaymizzo]

xXan

What? What is that even suposed to mean? What is the relevance of your post? Where are the counters to Minato sitting inside Susano and sniping them with Amaterasu or MS genjutsu? What i said are valid arguments based on Itachi's jutsus now give me counters and don't tell me its JMan's hair...

PS. I don't think you know but that mirror takes diferent properties to counter diferent elements, it would just use some raiton crep to cancel the swamp...

What in gods name does Minato have to do with any of this? And you call us fanboys

Itachi 1shotting Jman by just looking at him is not valid in anyway. Your making assumptions out of nothing, well actually your basing it off a few people being immobilized by genjutsu in a non combat situation one caught off-guard.

The only combat ones are Kakashi and Bee. Kakashi took the tsukuyomi, he didnt have to, but he warned the rest and took it. Sasuke was a little kid, when he matured he broke out of tsukuyomi. And Itachi never caught Bee in tsukuyomi and Bee realized he was in a genjutsu before Itachi warned him.

Like i said, swamp of the underworld could hold Itachi at bay for a time. And Yata mirror counters offensive nature jutsu, thats the reason its "defence" is impenetrable. It changes itself, actually it is rumored to do so, nothing confirmed. But we will go with it. Swamp of the underworld seems like a suplementary or support jutsu and if i recall correctly can be changed to jiraiyas liking.

And please, for future reference, dont group me in the bunch of people you feel use those arguments, im neither a Minato fanboy nor am i a Jiraiya fanboy and i have never used an argument like "Jiraiyas hair".

Both of your posts, you and jaymizzo are just smug pots with absolutly no facts or any type of counter arguments but i got used to this type of posts from Minato's fans.

Wait, your posts are filled with facts? Thats new. Itachi killing someone with tsukuyomi hasnt ever been proven yet... its a fact.

And didnt you say not so long ago, you to are a Minato fan?

[vanyar]

Perhaps you can also enlighten me what part of the manga is contradicting me?

You say: "Itachi solos and extremly easy... If he goes all out it takes about 5 seconds tops.

Kisame: "I'm pretty certain you could go toe to toe with him, I'm not sure I could, He's on a whole other level."

Itachi: "Yeah if we faced each other both of us would be killed."

Contradiction.

This is what i am talking about, you people make statemants but don't bother to bring ANY evidence or back up your words...

Sarcasm?

Both of your posts, you and jaymizzo have no facts or any type of counter arguments but i got used to this type of posts from Minato's fans.

Again, I have fact you have opinion. It's just that simple.

PS. Its not subjective.

It is. Itachi's jutsu are not subjective the scenarios you create are.

I posted Itachi's jutsus now you posts JMan's and the rest of his team counters to them. I made a basic tactic that a 5 years old could think of ... Someone on Itachi's level would have no problem thinking: OHHHH i know i can sit inside Susano and go god mode for 10 mins and snipe them all with Amaterasu...

You whole post proves my post, it's all subjective and biased. We have fact based evidence that it would be a draw.

[insid3rkill3r]

Itachi killing someone with tsukuyomi hasnt ever been proven yet... its a fact.

Kisame saying how surprised he is that Kakashi is still alive is proof enough, it clearly means that Kakashi is the first one to survive Itachi's tsukuyomi.

[M3J]

Using statements from the manga is not facts, especially when it can be contradicted, and it is. Itachi alone has shown to have the skillset to beat Jiraiya by himself. Considering Itachi has been able to incapacitate many enemies with genjutsu, like Naruto, Kakashi, Orochimaru, and Deidara, there's no reason to believe he won't do the same to Jiraiya, and actually kill him. In those fights, he never meant to kill anyone. If Jiraiya's in Tsukuyomi, he's not getting out. According to a statement made by a character, only Sharingan can fight against Tsukuyomi, which none of hte Sannin have.

Once again, the ONLY support anyone has that the Sannin can beat Itachi and Kisame is what they both said in regards to them vs. Jiraiya. What they have shown proves that each can take on Jiraiya on their own. Itachi's the only one who's likely to win, though, while it can go either way for Kisame and Jiraiya. Orochimaru has shown to immobilized by Itachi's genjutsu, the only difference is that he actually has teammates to help him break out or give him time to break out. Tsunade has no counter to any of the Mangekyo nor ability to kill Kisame, she can only kill or take out Itachi.

Kisame can counter Swamp of the Underworld using his Samehada or Great Shark Missile. Or Itachi can see the seal Jiraiya's using and either stop him or see him touching the ground and jump up.

[vanyar]

Using statements from the manga is not facts

Only according to you and only because it doesn't fit in your paradigm.

especially when it can be contradicted, and it is.

Why didn't you say so, can you show me where it's stated?

Itachi alone has shown to have the skillset to beat Jiraiya by himself.

No, Itachi has shown fearsome abilities. You assume that Jiraiya would be defeated by them though. The character himself seems to disagree.

Considering Itachi has been able to incapacitate many enemies with genjutsu, like Naruto, Kakashi, Orochimaru, and Deidara, there's no reason to believe he won't do the same to Jiraiya, and actually kill him.

No reason? you mean other than it's one hell of an assumption and very heavily biased. It's very flawed logic saying that well he could do that to this character so he automatically can do it to another.

According to a statement made by a character, only Sharingan can fight against Tsukuyomi, which none of hte Sannin have.

Provided you get caught in it. Which again is a big assumption when the Sannin have means to combat it.

What they have shown proves that each can take on Jiraiya on their own.

No, they have shown more of their abilities, that does not prove anything nor does it say that Itachi and Kisame can take Jiraiya on there own, it just shapes your own opinion on what they can do. The characters have already said the best they could achieve is a tie.

Tsunade has no counter to any of the Mangekyo nor ability to kill Kisame, she can only kill or take out Itachi.

So she can't kill Kisame but she can kill Itachi? What's your thinking behind this?

Kisame can counter Swamp of the Underworld using his Samehada or Great Shark Missile.

What about Toad Gourd Prison?

[M3J]

Only according to you and only because it doesn't fit in your paradigm.

Why didn't you say so, can you show me where it's stated?

No, Itachi has shown fearsome abilities. You assume that Jiraiya would be defeated by them though. The character himself seems to disagree.

Not only according to me, but we've seen statements be contradicted by action. Once again, statements can be lies. Tobi said he had nothing to do with Kyuubi attacking Konoha, but we actually saw him free the Kyuubi and have it attack Konoha. It has nothing to do with it fitting my paradigm, otherwise I can just as well say Orochimaru gets beaten or one-shotted because of or by genjutsu since we saw him get owned by genjutsu twice, but I'm not because those are different circumstances.

I've stated many times why I think Itachi and Kisame alone would stand a chance against Jiraiya. Jiraiya can't counter Itachi's Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu if he doesn't know it's coming, and he won't. He has no power to break through Susano'o unless there's no Yata Mirror. Jiraiya also likes to use ninjutsu, which Kisame can counter with Great Shark Missile or Samehada.

I assume based on what I've seen from Itachi and Jiraiya. Itachi may disagree with me, but it means nothing since he's shown he can take on Jiraiya. Besides, Itachi didn't disagree with me when they were running away, Kisame even retracted his former statement and said Itachi didn't need to retreat.

Itachi has been known to lie to protect Konoha. He invaded Konoha not to capture Naruto but to let the village elders know he was still alive. He went easy on the jounins, and only set up a basic trap for Jiraiya... considering how intelligent and steps ahead Itachi is, he should have set up more precautions instead of gamblin on just luring Jiraiya away with a lady, as if he wanted JIraiya to appear then and there.

No reason? you mean other than it's one hell of an assumption and very heavily biased. It's very flawed logic saying that well he could do that to this character so he automatically can do it to another.

How is it biased? We've seen Itachi do it to these characters, not this character. At least three S-rank criminals fell to Itachi's genjutsu, what makes Jiraiya the exception? Jiraiya, who himself admitted he's no good at genjutsu (or said he's not the genjutsu type, depending on who's the translator). You're being more biased by assuming Jiraiya can break out of the genjutsu when Orochimaru and Kakashi, both who have shown skills with genjutsu and one who has Sharingan, couldn't. The logic is not flawed at all considering we actually have proof of Itachi putting others in genjutsu and being able to kill them easily if he wanted to.

Provided you get caught in it. Which again is a big assumption when the Sannin have means to combat it.

What means do they have? They're likely to get caught in it considering almost everyone Itachi has fought has been caught in genjutsu. No one is immune to genjutsu, so if the Sannin get caught in one they will be affected. If they can't break out of the genjutsu fast enough, they're in trouble.

Same with Itachi and Kisame, though the Sannin would have to be careful with itachi since he's shown ability to break and reflect genjutsu upon its users.

No, they have shown more of their abilities, that does not prove anything nor does it say that Itachi and Kisame can take Jiraiya on there own, it just shapes your own opinion on what they can do. The characters have already said the best they could achieve is a tie.

The characters then said Itachi could take on Jiraiya or at least, he didn't need to retreat. That was never disagreed with. Statements mean nothing, it's like using databook stats. It's the desperate resort to prove a point, which doesn't work if we've seen the statements being proven false. You can't prove ITachi was telling the truth, and Kisame changed his opinion to Itachi being able to take on Jiraiya. Plus, from a scan I've read, Itachi and Kisame never say they'd tie with Jiraiya at most. Kisame says even Jiraiya might be a match for him and Itachi.

Jiraiya has shown his abilities as well, and so has Orochimaru. It proves a lot more, but you're refusing to see it in order to support Jiraiya. Jiraiya can't touch Itachi out of Sage Mode, and Itachi's genjutsu will give him problem. Oil and fire (separately) can be countered by water, and Jiraiya lacks the strength to break through Susano'o with the Mirror. He does not have the speed feat to avoid Amaterasu either, and Jiraiya has only used bunshins twice, once only when he was in trouble.

Jiraiya's ninjutsu style is weak against Kisame's ability to absorb chakra. Taijutsu is unknown, but Kisame is very durable. Jiraiya probably is, but I'm willing to assume he's better at hand-to-hand than Kisame. However, nothing short of a huge rasengan can stop Kisame considering he could still move after a one-hit kill jutsu.

If you're saying we haven't seen much of what Jiraiya can do, you'd have to say the same about Itachi and Kisame as well.

So she can't kill Kisame but she can kill Itachi? What's your thinking behind this?

What about Toad Gourd Prison?

Kisame has shown to be durable. Itachi hasn't shown that kind of durability, at least not from what I can assume. Can Itachi get speed-blitzed punched by Naruto and still be able to get up? Be hit by Afternoon Tiger and still live?

It's useless if Itachi doesn't go in the toad somehow. There's nothing stopping him from stabbing the toad with his kunai either, or using Amaterasu on it. Kisame likely won't get drawn in either. Even if they do, we don't know what'll happen to them.