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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
I do agree that they did want to save Annie or rather persuade her to their side, but the dialogue from Eren is basically him actually being ignorant of the situation. We also have to consider that Armin while completely uneasy about her, even bringing a gun, didn't necessarily want to believe her to be the female titan but it did bother him so I really wonder even with his quick thinking what did he have in mind with Annie. Maybe that was why he asked for the fail safe of having several scouting legion members hiding in the worst case that his fears were confirmed. Yet, Armin and the scouting legion really didn't have a choice regarding whom they picked to help them since Annie was their only connection to the Military Police that was crucial for the plan to save Eren - meaning I don't see them singling her out because of suspicions that she's the female titan hence I'm uncertain about the idea that this was planned.
Irregardless they certainly found a tragic silver lining in all of this, and I do think Annie will be transforming even though she is skilled with CQC I doubt she could handle that much armed people at once. Given that she's already failed once odds really are against Annie. Unless of course she could use some titan powers in her human form, e.g. skin hardening. Wouldn't be unheard of given that the regeneration attribute is active with Eren.
Last edited by Hamy; March 20, 2012 at 08:59 AM.
Two birds with one stone. Making a success out of a failure, I suppose. Capturing Annie is essentially saving Eren. I don't doubt Armin's quick thinking. He was practically the only one that figured out exactly what was happening down to the T when they were using Eren to lure out Annie back outside.Quote:
That's true, but I don't really think skin hardening will aid her. I presume they want her alive, essentially capture not kill. So I dunno how much help that ability will be, she'll eventually be outnumbered. What I do think though, is we might see some partial transformation. Like the time when Eren blocked the cannon, and when he was picking up his spoon. It'd be interesting to see exactly how extensive partial transformation allows (e.g: whether it's tailed beast-like or not).Quote:
I think the last chapter was not that well planned. There was no assurance that the person who killed specimen titans would be the same as the female titan. Also i don't understand why going to the underground would prove someone not to be a titan. Perhaps the underground tunnel leads to some kinda lab of the scouting legion and they would've tested annie, which annie suspected at the last moment. And i think the hiding guys are there to capture annie, not for eren. Had they been merely trying to capture eren, they should intervened before eren started getting in the underground tunnel. Also i think the actual escape of eren should not have been off paneled.
Thus, if Annie had entered that tunnel, it would've been an act of goodwill on her part, same as surrender basically, showing them she's not their enemy, she's willing to trust and cooperate with them to atone for her sins.
I agree with the post above - Annie would be unable to effectively transform into a Titan underground. Armin & Eren asking Annie to go underground with them is basically asking her to give possible "proof" that she is not the female titan.
I believe that the situation depicted in the last chapter is something like this:
Armin originally suspected that Annie was on the side of the Titans after noticing that she had Marco's 3DMG. The fact that she had Marco's 3DMG instead of her own 3DMG indicated that she wanted to conceal her use of 3DMG in murdering the captive titan specimens. However, Armin did not initially inform Commander Irvin (or any of the higher ups) of his suspicions because he did not want to think that his suspicions were true (this was what Annie was asking about at the end of the chapter). After encountering the female Titan (and being spared), Armin deduced that there was a high chance that Annie was the female Titan. In the aftermath of the failed mission, Armin decided to tell Commander Irvin of his suspicions. The scouting legion then enacted the plan that is currently in motion in order to confirm whether their suspicions were right and to capture/kill the female Titan.
We'll probably get a flashback next chapter, or the chapter after. I've noticed Shingeki is the type of manga where it "takes action now, explain later". Which I guess isn't so bad compared to other series. It serves to break up the rhythm (this manga is stupidly fast paced) as well as providing backstory. I'm betting on Annie being captured one way or another. We're 31 chapters in and we still don't know who the real antagonist(s) are. Right now, she's the closest we'll get to knowing something about the 'villains' of this manga.Originally Posted by Hamy
---------- Post added at 07:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:03 PM ----------
I agree that the evidence supporting Annie being titan is small compared to the evidence that she killed the specimens, but I wouldn't say it is unsubstantial. Here are a couple of reasons why I think Armin may have suspected Annie. I may be wrong but here goes:
(1) The female Titan is an individual who has detailed knowledge of not only Eren, but who his friends are.
(2) Despite being incredibly ruthless and killing almost every single one of the scouts she encountered, the female titan spared all of the of the former trainees - Armin/Jean/Reiner, suggesting that for some reason, she hesitated to kill them.
(3) When Armin tries to distract the female titan by saying she killed Eren, he never uses the name "Eren". Rather, he uses words that only a trainee would know (Ex. "The one who was in a hurry to die") and the female titan reacted to them.
All these clues lead (though not strongly) towards a possible conclusion of the female titan being a trainee or having detailed knowledge of the trainees, and if Armin reached that train of thought, Annie would quickly become a suspect. Even in this chapter, Armin is not absolutely sure that Annie is a titan - he would rather believe otherwise. However, the possibility of capturing the female titan is strong enough I believe the scouting legion would attempt to investigate this loose end. If they were wrong and Annie was not the female titan, that would be fine b/c there would be no big consequences. But if they were right (which they are), they would have a lot to gain.
The identity of the female titan is no longer a subject of debate. Chapter 31 confirmed that it was Annie. We are far past the point of trying to read clues as to why she is or is not the Titan. After Armin ponders what would have happened if Annie had killed him here, she responds by wondering why she did not kill him here. Mikasa then spells it out for the audience here. Annie smiles in response here, confirming she is the female titan. That is why the title of the chapter was "Smile". Isayama spent half the chapter confirming that Annie is the female titan, there is no longer any need to speculate. At this point any attempt to argue the contrary is crack that runs counter to the plot of the manga, as formally established in chapter 31.
Last edited by Kaiten; March 28, 2012 at 10:27 AM.
The post before yours seemed to voice suspicion that Annie was not the Titan.
---------- Post added at 05:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:00 PM ----------
Why is evidence even needed? Armin may not have had any in the first place. Once she failed to deny killing the captured titan it would have to raise the suspicion that she could be the female titan. He voiced his suspicion, Annie chose to confirm them. Simple as that. An elaborate, Naruto-esque scenario was never needed. Like any good detective Armin had a hunch, followed his instincts, and had his suspicions confirmed.
---------- Post added at 06:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:56 PM ----------
Proving that Annie was the one who killed the titans did not prove that she was the female titan, that was but one of many scenario's. But you would have to be instantly suspicious that the person who killed the titans was also the one who followed the scouts when the gates opened. Once Armin confirmed that Annie killed the captured titans it would have been moronic not try and find out if she was also the female titan. Even if she were not it would be very likely that Annie was working with the female titan.
Had Annie followed Eren down into the tunnel it would have confirmed she was an ally willing to follow them into danger. Armin chose the moment she refused to voice his suspicion. That is the significance of the underground, whether Annie was willing to follow them into whatever danger awaited them. By refusing she proved that she was not an ally.
No one was waiting in ambush. The MP's have all been shown as cowards with no combat experience. They were afraid of Eren and hiding until he passed through town.
Last edited by Kaiten; March 28, 2012 at 05:10 PM.
http://www.mangatoyou.org/shingeki_no_kyojin/31/34/ Chapter 31 - page 34, the people hiding on top of the roofs are clearly scouts waiting for an ambush. I don't know about those other people - they could be civilians (who were somehow informed of the situation) or military personnel.
Which is a rather lame way to figure out who is the baddy. Good detectives have reasons behind their actions,not just hunches...and their hunches just don't come out saying yeah i'm the one...like the way annie did here.Quote:
And how do we know that it was not because of vengeance? the captured titans killed a lot of ppl. their close persons would want to see them dead,not just caught and bound.Quote:
It was ok till the point of suspicion. but there was precious little brain work involved in actually investigating if annie was really the female titan or not.Quote:
Once again a very weak reasoning. Lets say Annie actually followed eren into the tunnel and at the same time,she is the female titan. now is there anything wrong here? can't annie follow eren into the tunnel because she is titan? what could've possibly gone wrong for her if she did went down? by not going down,she incurred further suspicion. by going down,she could've easily avoided that...without putting herself into any sort of danger since according to your logic just going down clears her of suspicion("it would have confirmed she was an ally willing to follow them into danger.") So why did not she go down?Quote:
So just going downstairs to the tunnel is not as confirmatory as i've shown,it could be a mislead. since going to the tunnel is not a conclusive factor,not going to the tunnel can't be a conclusive factor either. she had already stepped against law when she helped eren escape. even if she were not a titan,she might not have wanted to engage herself further with the criminals. being a titan is not the only possible reason why someone in her position wouldn't go to the tunnel. hence not going to the tunnel can't prove that someone is a titan.
So from what armin did there with annie, he can't logically figure out whether annie is a titan or not,nobody can.
Dunno how that is relevant to what we're talking about.Quote: