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Thread: Shingeki no Kyojin Chapter 31 Discussion

  1. #31
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Hamy's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Chapter 31 Discussion/Chapter 32 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Knifeshade View Post
    I wouldn't say it was impromptu. Eren and co were clearly the ones who were leading her down the passage. At that moment and after those curious Q & A between Annie and Armin, she knew what was up. It's crazy how fast they came up with the plan though, no doubt credit goes to Armin for his quick thinking.

    I don't think Annie will transform (she should know what the consequences are). As long as she doesn't, they don't have definite proof against her. She's skilled in combat so I'm sure she can hold her own against them. For how long though remains the question.

    EDIT: Reading the last half again, the last panel looks like she's motioning to bite her hand. And I don't get the dialogue reading it a second time. It's almost like Eren and them were trying to save Annie (rather than the reverse) by persuading her follow them down the passage. Now that would be a confusing plot twist.
    I do find it rather confusing of a plan either way if they did want to lure Annie - sure Armin was confirming his suspicions but to actually capture the female titan WHILE having Eren escape just seems too much on the table because face it you don't want to push Annie since if the going gets tough she will transform. I find the plan really to be impromptu since I would think that the main objective was to save Eren.

    I do agree that they did want to save Annie or rather persuade her to their side, but the dialogue from Eren is basically him actually being ignorant of the situation. We also have to consider that Armin while completely uneasy about her, even bringing a gun, didn't necessarily want to believe her to be the female titan but it did bother him so I really wonder even with his quick thinking what did he have in mind with Annie. Maybe that was why he asked for the fail safe of having several scouting legion members hiding in the worst case that his fears were confirmed. Yet, Armin and the scouting legion really didn't have a choice regarding whom they picked to help them since Annie was their only connection to the Military Police that was crucial for the plan to save Eren - meaning I don't see them singling her out because of suspicions that she's the female titan hence I'm uncertain about the idea that this was planned.

    Irregardless they certainly found a tragic silver lining in all of this, and I do think Annie will be transforming even though she is skilled with CQC I doubt she could handle that much armed people at once. Given that she's already failed once odds really are against Annie. Unless of course she could use some titan powers in her human form, e.g. skin hardening. Wouldn't be unheard of given that the regeneration attribute is active with Eren.
    Last edited by Hamy; March 20, 2012 at 08:59 AM.

  2. #32
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Knifeshade's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Chapter 31 Discussion/Chapter 32 Predictions

    Quote Quote:
    I do find it rather confusing of a plan either way if they did want to lure Annie - sure Armin was confirming his suspicions but to actually capture the female titan WHILE having Eren escape just seems too much on the table because face it you don't want to push Annie since if the going gets tough she will transform. I find the plan really to be impromptu since I would think that the main objective was to save Eren.
    Two birds with one stone. Making a success out of a failure, I suppose. Capturing Annie is essentially saving Eren. I don't doubt Armin's quick thinking. He was practically the only one that figured out exactly what was happening down to the T when they were using Eren to lure out Annie back outside.

    Quote Quote:
    Irregardless they certainly found a tragic silver lining in all of this, and I do think Annie will be transforming even though she is skilled with CQC I doubt she could handle that much armed people at once. Given that she's already failed once odds really are against Annie. Unless of course she could use some titan powers in her human form, e.g. skin hardening. Wouldn't be unheard of given that the regeneration attribute is active with Eren.
    That's true, but I don't really think skin hardening will aid her. I presume they want her alive, essentially capture not kill. So I dunno how much help that ability will be, she'll eventually be outnumbered. What I do think though, is we might see some partial transformation. Like the time when Eren blocked the cannon, and when he was picking up his spoon. It'd be interesting to see exactly how extensive partial transformation allows (e.g: whether it's tailed beast-like or not).
    -

  3. #33
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ashher's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Chapter 31 Discussion/Chapter 32 Predictions

    I think the last chapter was not that well planned. There was no assurance that the person who killed specimen titans would be the same as the female titan. Also i don't understand why going to the underground would prove someone not to be a titan. Perhaps the underground tunnel leads to some kinda lab of the scouting legion and they would've tested annie, which annie suspected at the last moment. And i think the hiding guys are there to capture annie, not for eren. Had they been merely trying to capture eren, they should intervened before eren started getting in the underground tunnel. Also i think the actual escape of eren should not have been off paneled.

  4. #34
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Hamy's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Chapter 31 Discussion/Chapter 32 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Knifeshade View Post
    Two birds with one stone. Making a success out of a failure, I suppose. Capturing Annie is essentially saving Eren. I don't doubt Armin's quick thinking. He was practically the only one that figured out exactly what was happening down to the T when they were using Eren to lure out Annie back outside.
    Quote Originally Posted by ashher View Post
    I think the last chapter was not that well planned. There was no assurance that the person who killed specimen titans would be the same as the female titan. Also i don't understand why going to the underground would prove someone not to be a titan. Perhaps the underground tunnel leads to some kinda lab of the scouting legion and they would've tested annie, which annie suspected at the last moment. And i think the hiding guys are there to capture annie, not for eren. Had they been merely trying to capture eren, they should intervened before eren started getting in the underground tunnel. Also i think the actual escape of eren should not have been off paneled.
    I think the biggest hole in the current mission is that we don't know one of the two things A) did Armin actually speak of his worries regarding the possible identity of the female Titan to anyone (or possibly one of the other two that were with him also speaking out) or B) did the higher ups already have an idea as to who the female titan is. If any of these two scenarios were revealed to have happened I'd see the killing two birds with one stone far more plausible, but if not hey we've still got the Scouting legion finally having a break from their string of misfortune. Still B is a possibility given that the commander DID ask new recruits regarding their suspicions - so its possible that he did think that the mole could possibly be within the new recruits or if not he simply had suspicions regarding the new recruits. Either way information will be necessary to actually plan this out but nothing has been revealed that it had been spilled.

  5. #35
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member fanatik's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Chapter 31 Discussion/Chapter 32 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by ashher View Post
    I think the last chapter was not that well planned. There was no assurance that the person who killed specimen titans would be the same as the female titan. Also i don't understand why going to the underground would prove someone not to be a titan. Perhaps the underground tunnel leads to some kinda lab of the scouting legion and they would've tested annie, which annie suspected at the last moment. And i think the hiding guys are there to capture annie, not for eren. Had they been merely trying to capture eren, they should intervened before eren started getting in the underground tunnel. Also i think the actual escape of eren should not have been off paneled.
    Entering an underground tunnel will not prove that Annie is not a titan, but it will rob her (and Eren) of the transformation option. They simply can't fully transform and freely move in crampled spaces, which makes it easy to restain or kill them if need be. That was the reason why Eren was ordered to live in the basement of the old castle/ex-HQ of the Scouts according to the conditions set for releasing him to the Scouting Legion, as Rivaille said a while back. Sunlight also might be a factor: according to Hanji's research, titans may need it to be fully active. And there's no sunlight underground.

    Thus, if Annie had entered that tunnel, it would've been an act of goodwill on her part, same as surrender basically, showing them she's not their enemy, she's willing to trust and cooperate with them to atone for her sins.

  6. #36
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Chapter 31 Discussion/Chapter 32 Predictions

    I agree with the post above - Annie would be unable to effectively transform into a Titan underground. Armin & Eren asking Annie to go underground with them is basically asking her to give possible "proof" that she is not the female titan.

    I believe that the situation depicted in the last chapter is something like this:
    Armin originally suspected that Annie was on the side of the Titans after noticing that she had Marco's 3DMG. The fact that she had Marco's 3DMG instead of her own 3DMG indicated that she wanted to conceal her use of 3DMG in murdering the captive titan specimens. However, Armin did not initially inform Commander Irvin (or any of the higher ups) of his suspicions because he did not want to think that his suspicions were true (this was what Annie was asking about at the end of the chapter). After encountering the female Titan (and being spared), Armin deduced that there was a high chance that Annie was the female Titan. In the aftermath of the failed mission, Armin decided to tell Commander Irvin of his suspicions. The scouting legion then enacted the plan that is currently in motion in order to confirm whether their suspicions were right and to capture/kill the female Titan.

  7. #37
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Knifeshade's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Chapter 31 Discussion/Chapter 32 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamy
    Either way information will be necessary to actually plan this out but nothing has been revealed that it had been spilled.
    We'll probably get a flashback next chapter, or the chapter after. I've noticed Shingeki is the type of manga where it "takes action now, explain later". Which I guess isn't so bad compared to other series. It serves to break up the rhythm (this manga is stupidly fast paced) as well as providing backstory. I'm betting on Annie being captured one way or another. We're 31 chapters in and we still don't know who the real antagonist(s) are. Right now, she's the closest we'll get to knowing something about the 'villains' of this manga.
    -

  8. #38
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ashher's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Chapter 31 Discussion/Chapter 32 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by fanatik View Post
    Entering an underground tunnel will not prove that Annie is not a titan, but it will rob her (and Eren) of the transformation option. They simply can't fully transform and freely move in crampled spaces, which makes it easy to restain or kill them if need be. That was the reason why Eren was ordered to live in the basement of the old castle/ex-HQ of the Scouts according to the conditions set for releasing him to the Scouting Legion, as Rivaille said a while back. Sunlight also might be a factor: according to Hanji's research, titans may need it to be fully active. And there's no sunlight underground.

    Thus, if Annie had entered that tunnel, it would've been an act of goodwill on her part, same as surrender basically, showing them she's not their enemy, she's willing to trust and cooperate with them to atone for her sins.
    Which means that they already knew that annie is the female titan.But how exactly did they work that out? Armin could've deduced upto the point that she is probably the one who killed the specimen titans. but that doesn't in any way prove that she herself is the female titan. for all we know,she might have killed those titans for sake of vengeance.

    ---------- Post added at 07:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by verysleepy View Post
    I agree with the post above - Annie would be unable to effectively transform into a Titan underground. Armin & Eren asking Annie to go underground with them is basically asking her to give possible "proof" that she is not the female titan.

    I believe that the situation depicted in the last chapter is something like this:
    Armin originally suspected that Annie was on the side of the Titans after noticing that she had Marco's 3DMG. The fact that she had Marco's 3DMG instead of her own 3DMG indicated that she wanted to conceal her use of 3DMG in murdering the captive titan specimens. However, Armin did not initially inform Commander Irvin (or any of the higher ups) of his suspicions because he did not want to think that his suspicions were true (this was what Annie was asking about at the end of the chapter). After encountering the female Titan (and being spared), Armin deduced that there was a high chance that Annie was the female Titan. In the aftermath of the failed mission, Armin decided to tell Commander Irvin of his suspicions. The scouting legion then enacted the plan that is currently in motion in order to confirm whether their suspicions were right and to capture/kill the female Titan.
    from what he could've deduced that? while the reason behind suspecting annie for killing the specimens is strong, there is little to almost nothing linking her to female titan.

  9. #39
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Chapter 31 Discussion/Chapter 32 Predictions

    I agree that the evidence supporting Annie being titan is small compared to the evidence that she killed the specimens, but I wouldn't say it is unsubstantial. Here are a couple of reasons why I think Armin may have suspected Annie. I may be wrong but here goes:

    (1) The female Titan is an individual who has detailed knowledge of not only Eren, but who his friends are.
    (2) Despite being incredibly ruthless and killing almost every single one of the scouts she encountered, the female titan spared all of the of the former trainees - Armin/Jean/Reiner, suggesting that for some reason, she hesitated to kill them.
    (3) When Armin tries to distract the female titan by saying she killed Eren, he never uses the name "Eren". Rather, he uses words that only a trainee would know (Ex. "The one who was in a hurry to die") and the female titan reacted to them.

    All these clues lead (though not strongly) towards a possible conclusion of the female titan being a trainee or having detailed knowledge of the trainees, and if Armin reached that train of thought, Annie would quickly become a suspect. Even in this chapter, Armin is not absolutely sure that Annie is a titan - he would rather believe otherwise. However, the possibility of capturing the female titan is strong enough I believe the scouting legion would attempt to investigate this loose end. If they were wrong and Annie was not the female titan, that would be fine b/c there would be no big consequences. But if they were right (which they are), they would have a lot to gain.

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  11. #40
    Harasho 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Chapter 31 Discussion/Chapter 32 Predictions

    The identity of the female titan is no longer a subject of debate. Chapter 31 confirmed that it was Annie. We are far past the point of trying to read clues as to why she is or is not the Titan. After Armin ponders what would have happened if Annie had killed him here, she responds by wondering why she did not kill him here. Mikasa then spells it out for the audience here. Annie smiles in response here, confirming she is the female titan. That is why the title of the chapter was "Smile". Isayama spent half the chapter confirming that Annie is the female titan, there is no longer any need to speculate. At this point any attempt to argue the contrary is crack that runs counter to the plot of the manga, as formally established in chapter 31.
    Last edited by Kaiten; March 28, 2012 at 10:27 AM.

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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Chapter 31 Discussion/Chapter 32 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiten View Post
    The identity of the female titan is no longer a subject of debate. Chapter 31 confirmed that it was Annie. We are far past the point of trying to read clues as to why she is or is not the Titan. After Armin ponders what would have happened if Annie had killed him here, she responds by wondering why she did not kill him here. Mikasa then spells it out for the audience here. Annie smiles in response here, confirming she is the female titan. That is why the title of the chapter was "Smile". Isayama spent half the chapter confirming that Annie is the female titan, there is no longer any need to speculate. At this point any attempt to argue the contrary is crack that runs counter to the plot of the manga, as formally established in chapter 31.
    I wasn't debating whether Annie was the female titan or not; that is clearly obvious. I was answering the question in the post above mine - what evidence did Armin have to think that Annie was the titan?

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  14. #42
    Harasho 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Chapter 31 Discussion/Chapter 32 Predictions

    The post before yours seemed to voice suspicion that Annie was not the Titan.

    ---------- Post added at 05:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:00 PM ----------

    Why is evidence even needed? Armin may not have had any in the first place. Once she failed to deny killing the captured titan it would have to raise the suspicion that she could be the female titan. He voiced his suspicion, Annie chose to confirm them. Simple as that. An elaborate, Naruto-esque scenario was never needed. Like any good detective Armin had a hunch, followed his instincts, and had his suspicions confirmed.

    ---------- Post added at 06:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ashher View Post
    Which means that they already knew that annie is the female titan.But how exactly did they work that out? Armin could've deduced upto the point that she is probably the one who killed the specimen titans. but that doesn't in any way prove that she herself is the female titan. for all we know,she might have killed those titans for sake of vengeance.
    The Titans were killed so that the scouting legion would not have the opportunity to experiment on them. There is no other reason to kill them. Certainly not vengeance.

    Proving that Annie was the one who killed the titans did not prove that she was the female titan, that was but one of many scenario's. But you would have to be instantly suspicious that the person who killed the titans was also the one who followed the scouts when the gates opened. Once Armin confirmed that Annie killed the captured titans it would have been moronic not try and find out if she was also the female titan. Even if she were not it would be very likely that Annie was working with the female titan.

    Had Annie followed Eren down into the tunnel it would have confirmed she was an ally willing to follow them into danger. Armin chose the moment she refused to voice his suspicion. That is the significance of the underground, whether Annie was willing to follow them into whatever danger awaited them. By refusing she proved that she was not an ally.

    No one was waiting in ambush. The MP's have all been shown as cowards with no combat experience. They were afraid of Eren and hiding until he passed through town.
    Last edited by Kaiten; March 28, 2012 at 05:10 PM.

  15. #43
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Chapter 31 Discussion/Chapter 32 Predictions

    http://www.mangatoyou.org/shingeki_no_kyojin/31/34/ Chapter 31 - page 34, the people hiding on top of the roofs are clearly scouts waiting for an ambush. I don't know about those other people - they could be civilians (who were somehow informed of the situation) or military personnel.

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  17. #44
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ashher's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Chapter 31 Discussion/Chapter 32 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiten View Post
    The post before yours seemed to voice suspicion that Annie was not the Titan.
    Nope,i was rather voicing the suspicion about how armin could possibly figure out Annie is the female titan from the facts he knew.

    Quote Quote:
    Why is evidence even needed? Armin may not have had any in the first place. Once she failed to deny killing the captured titan it would have to raise the suspicion that she could be the female titan. He voiced his suspicion, Annie chose to confirm them. Simple as that. An elaborate, Naruto-esque scenario was never needed. Like any good detective Armin had a hunch, followed his instincts, and had his suspicions confirmed.
    Which is a rather lame way to figure out who is the baddy. Good detectives have reasons behind their actions,not just hunches...and their hunches just don't come out saying yeah i'm the one...like the way annie did here.

    Quote Quote:
    The Titans were killed so that the scouting legion would not have the opportunity to experiment on them. There is no other reason to kill them. Certainly not vengeance.
    And how do we know that it was not because of vengeance? the captured titans killed a lot of ppl. their close persons would want to see them dead,not just caught and bound.

    Quote Quote:
    Proving that Annie was the one who killed the titans did not prove that she was the female titan, that was but one of many scenario's. But you would have to be instantly suspicious that the person who killed the titans was also the one who followed the scouts when the gates opened. Once Armin confirmed that Annie killed the captured titans it would have been moronic not try and find out if she was also the female titan. Even if she were not it would be very likely that Annie was working with the female titan.
    It was ok till the point of suspicion. but there was precious little brain work involved in actually investigating if annie was really the female titan or not.

    Quote Quote:
    Had Annie followed Eren down into the tunnel it would have confirmed she was an ally willing to follow them into danger. Armin chose the moment she refused to voice his suspicion. That is the significance of the underground, whether Annie was willing to follow them into whatever danger awaited them. By refusing she proved that she was not an ally.
    Once again a very weak reasoning. Lets say Annie actually followed eren into the tunnel and at the same time,she is the female titan. now is there anything wrong here? can't annie follow eren into the tunnel because she is titan? what could've possibly gone wrong for her if she did went down? by not going down,she incurred further suspicion. by going down,she could've easily avoided that...without putting herself into any sort of danger since according to your logic just going down clears her of suspicion("it would have confirmed she was an ally willing to follow them into danger.") So why did not she go down?

    So just going downstairs to the tunnel is not as confirmatory as i've shown,it could be a mislead. since going to the tunnel is not a conclusive factor,not going to the tunnel can't be a conclusive factor either. she had already stepped against law when she helped eren escape. even if she were not a titan,she might not have wanted to engage herself further with the criminals. being a titan is not the only possible reason why someone in her position wouldn't go to the tunnel. hence not going to the tunnel can't prove that someone is a titan.

    So from what armin did there with annie, he can't logically figure out whether annie is a titan or not,nobody can.

    Quote Quote:
    No one was waiting in ambush. The MP's have all been shown as cowards with no combat experience. They were afraid of Eren and hiding until he passed through town.
    Dunno how that is relevant to what we're talking about.

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  19. #45
    The Original 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member thornofcarrion's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Chapter 31 Discussion/Chapter 32 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by verysleepy View Post
    http://www.mangatoyou.org/shingeki_no_kyojin/31/34/ Chapter 31 - page 34, the people hiding on top of the roofs are clearly scouts waiting for an ambush. I don't know about those other people - they could be civilians (who were somehow informed of the situation) or military personnel.
    Indeed. The ones on the balcony (left) are surely scouts. The ones in building (right) apparently looks like civilians. They are not dressed up as scouts and I can see some yongsters among them.

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