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Thread: Fuji vs Irie

  1. #46
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    This is where we realize your reading a different manga. Konomi gave Yukimura the power that he can see through every shot. Not me. If NO technique can successfully take out Yukimura then tell me what Fuji could use?
    Maybe I misunderstood you. I thought your logic concluded:

    Yukimura > Fuji/Fuwa, Therefore Yukimura > Irie

    You did say Yukimura would beat both Fuji and Irie (which, throwing in Irie is pretty silly considering how talented he is).

    Quote Quote:
    Yukimura has returned Drive A, B, Cool Drive, Samurai Drive, Big Bang, Lightning, Wind, Fire and MANY more so the Counters will do what to him? Not even phase him.
    *claps*
    Welcome to every single person in 1st string. Including Irie.

    Quote Quote:
    Closed Eye doesnt work as shown against Fuwa.
    Fuwa is fodder.

    Quote Quote:
    Therefore Yukimura will defeat Fuji no matter what.
    I don't argue against this point. I am arguing against you saying Yukimura would beat Irie.


    Quote Originally Posted by LetalHawk
    Irie is also amazing and his true power might be insane. But, even if he is able to see through Yips, and isn't affected, that doesn't mean Yukimura will lose. As I said, watching through every shot means that Irie, no matter if he gets fully serious, won't take points as Yukimura will return his shots and goes into a long rally, and maybe he could be yipped in the rally and unable to continue since you have to score against Yukimura, and I don't see Irie hitting shots past Yukimura, no matter how hard or fast.

    I see that Yukimura would win 6-2 or. 6-1 depending if Irie can break out of the Yips.
    Wow, you really need to understand the way manga works. There is no way in hell Yukimura is beating Irie 6-1 or 6-2. ALL POT TECHNIQUES are the same. There is no difference between Yips, Rai, TmK, etc. ANY technique in this series has ONLY and EVERYTHING to do with ability level. For example:

    If Sanada is level 10, and Yukimura is level 11, and Tezuka is level 8, then that means Rai will always work on Tezuka, and never work on Yukimura. It doesn't matter what technique it is, or how broken and overpowered it is. If someone is at a greater ability level, no technique will work for very long (if at all). That's the way manga works, for the purpose of growth and suspense. If Yukimura is level 11, and Irie is level 14, Yips would NOT work on Irie. His overall skill level is too high in comparison to Yukimura's. Sanada's ability level exceeded Yukimura's when he obtained Black Aura, which is why he instantly broke out of Yips. He's too good for that now. It is simple logic, really. Unless Yukimura achieved a new level of skill, I don't see him doing anything against a serious Irie.

    Quote Quote:
    Of course, Tnk Echizen and TnK would destroy Irie.
    Again, depends on ability level.

  2. #47
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    I am arguing against you saying Yukimura would beat Irie.
    I got carried away lol. Also, we dont know Yukimura's Technique stat. I see them having a good match. Even w/out showing us improvement, Yukimura is Top 10 level.
    Im saying this coz Singles wise, he would defeat Mouri and Ochi.
    It would be a good match between Yukimura and Irie. Thats what we have been shown by Konomi thus far.

    But going by evidence wise, Yukimura should beat Irie. Since Yukimura is unstoppable w/out an Aura against him which is what we have been shown.
    Irie has no aura... As awesome as he is. Although we do know that he pissed all over Atobe and wasnt even at full power.
    Man. Its tough. for me that is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    *claps*
    Welcome to every single person in 1st string. Including Irie.
    Not quite. The 1st String is No.s 1-20. If you see Fuji having his counters broken by Fuwa, Date, BAn, Mutsu's, Hakamada, Taira, HAra Akiba and Mitsuya then... I dont get your views on the manga at all.
    Current Fuji would probably win against all of them. Even Mouri and Ochi dont look like they would defeat Fuji singles wise haha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Wow, you really need to understand the way manga works. There is no way in hell Yukimura is beating Irie 6-1 or 6-2. ALL POT TECHNIQUES are the same. There is no difference between Yips, Rai, TmK, etc. ANY technique in this series has ONLY and EVERYTHING to do with ability level. For example:

    If Sanada is level 10, and Yukimura is level 11, and Tezuka is level 8, then that means Rai will always work on Tezuka, and never work on Yukimura. It doesn't matter what technique it is, or how broken and overpowered it is. If someone is at a greater ability level, no technique will work for very long (if at all). That's the way manga works, for the purpose of growth and suspense. If Yukimura is level 11, and Irie is level 14, Yips would NOT work on Irie. His overall skill level is too high in comparison to Yukimura's. Sanada's ability level exceeded Yukimura's when he obtained Black Aura, which is why he instantly broke out of Yips. He's too good for that now. It is simple logic, really. Unless Yukimura achieved a new level of skill, I don't see him doing anything against a serious Irie.
    Your saying Irie cant get yipped at all??
    No proof. Your theory makes sense but I still think Irie will briefly get yipped. Although his mind fuck tennis which is so entertaining would easily get him out of it.

    (I dont feel the anime did him justice against Atobe. They didnt even put emphasis on the ''JUST KIDDING'' moment perhaps fav. moment of the series).


    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Again, depends on ability level.
    LOL. Dont go too far. We all have our favourite character but its insane to say Irie is TMnK level haha.
    Last edited by Airgrimes; March 26, 2012 at 03:47 PM.

  3. #48
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LetalHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    LOL. Dont go too far. We all have our favourite character but its insane to say Irie is TMnK level haha.
    Perfectly said. Personally, Echizen's insane improvement we'll see in future chapters, him being the only MS able to hit 10 balls and being able to at least be at Oni's and Tokugawa's level, that, combined with TnK, it's just beyond godlike. If Echizen could activate TnK willingly, I'm pretty sure he would beat Irie with no problems.

    Sure it depends on ability level, but, when the best MS in the camp right now activates TnK, Irie won't stand a chance. Echizen's TNK shots at full power are the fastest shots. Mach would be childs play for TnK Echizen to return, thus remember that nobody saw the first serve Echizen hit against Yukimura while in TnK.

    If Echizen, now, can activate it willingly, and hits as strong as he can with TnK, Irie won't be able to even react. Or at least be running around the court until he gets exhausted quickly.

    So to sum up, Shin TnK Echizen >> Irie.
    Last edited by LetalHawk; March 26, 2012 at 04:09 PM.

  4. #49
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Unless Yukimura achieved a new level of skill, I don't see him doing anything against a serious Irie.
    If you only mean whether Yukimura improved since he played Echizen and Sanada, I would say he did.

    When you look at the way Yips works against Echizen/Sanada and how it works against Fuwa, you will notice that both Echizen and Fuwa had visions (Sanada probably had too, but it wasn't shown). The difference being that Echizen (and probably Sanada as well) saw visions of themselves losing, which results in them struggling and eventually activating TnK and BA respectevily, whereas Fuwa sees himself breaking through Yukimura's tennis and collapses, thinking that he's won and showing no resistance.

    In other words, whereas with the old version of Yips the opponents tried to break out of it, the new version makes them think they've already won and so they stop trying.

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  6. #50
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    But going by evidence wise, Yukimura should beat Irie. Since Yukimura is unstoppable w/out an Aura against him which is what we have been shown.
    Irie has no aura... As awesome as he is. Although we do know that he pissed all over Atobe and wasnt even at full power.
    Again, you're putting the emphasis on techniques and auras. Those things mean nothing if the opponent is just better than you.



    Quote Quote:
    Your saying Irie cant get yipped at all??
    No, I'm saying IF Irie is at a higher ability level than Yukimura, then Yips will not work on him. The same way Rai didn't work on Yukimura.




    Quote Quote:
    LOL. Dont go too far. We all have our favourite character but its insane to say Irie is TMnK level haha.
    You're acting like just because you have TMnK, it means you're automatically at a higher skill level than everyone in the series. Not so. Had Echizen used TMnK against Kazuya BEFORE he improved to be able to hit 10 balls, he would have lost. Kazuya was expanses better than Echizen at the time. Also, if you believe TMnK puts you at a fixed ability level no matter who achieves it, then you believe Tezuka with TMnK is on the same level as Echizen with TMnK, which I do not believe they are. So just because someone has TMnK does not mean they are instantly the best player in the world. It has everything to do with your base skill level first.

  7. #51
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    No, I'm saying IF Irie is at a higher ability level than Yukimura, then Yips will not work on him. The same way Rai didn't work on Yukimura.
    I'd like someone explain to me why Yukimura easily returned Rai and Tezuka don't. I'm sure Tezuka's arms are stronger, sorry but Yukimura looks like so fragile and he can understand every shot, but if he hasn't power, it's useless... take like example Kabaji, he knows Jirou's technique but it isn't flexible enough to execute it.

  8. #52
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member ashore's Avatar
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Probably because once he see an offensive move once he can return anything. that's just part of of his special skills. technically rai should be too fast to return, that's the way the manga writer wants yukimura's strength to be.

  9. #53
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Again, you're putting the emphasis on techniques and auras. Those things mean nothing if the opponent is just better than you.
    Yukimura is significantly better than Nationals!Ryoma w/out TMnK.
    Yukimura walks over Sanada w/out Black Aura...
    Aura clearly means everything here.



    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    No, I'm saying IF Irie is at a higher ability level than Yukimura, then Yips will not work on him. The same way Rai didn't work on Yukimura.
    Fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    You're acting like just because you have TMnK, it means you're automatically at a higher skill level than everyone in the series. Not so. Had Echizen used TMnK against Kazuya BEFORE he improved to be able to hit 10 balls, he would have lost.
    ...You somehow feel Tokugawa is better than the boost that TMnK provides? He is obviously not at an unreachable level after Byoudouin's shot humbled him.
    Tokugawa is amazing but lets not get carried away with hype. Look at No.s 11-19, Kaji, 1st Court, all examples of hype that wasnt that great.
    Im not saying Tokugawa is as bad as them since we know he is amazing, but TMnK!Ryoma would defeat him as far as we have been shown.
    Tokugawa couldnt return Cool Drive first time while Yukimura did so with ease. So therefore I believe its fair to say TMnK!Ryoma would defeat Tokugawa.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Kazuya was expanses better than Echizen at the time. Also, if you believe TMnK puts you at a fixed ability level no matter who achieves it, then you believe Tezuka with TMnK is on the same level as Echizen with TMnK, which I do not believe they are. So just because someone has TMnK does not mean they are instantly the best player in the world. It has everything to do with your base skill level first.
    This didnt come from me. I never said it puts you at a fixed ability.
    Im saying it gives you a plot powered amazing boost. A boost that Im afraid Tokugawa is likely unable to reach.
    Tokugawa, Irie, Oni, Byoudouin, Ryoga and Tanegashima cant be that good. Otherwise whats the point in hinting there will be Overseas tournaments later in the series?
    I believe TMnK!Tezuka > TMnK!Ryoma although the 10ball improvement may change that. Never said TMnK makes everyone the same.
    Konomi has made it clear by saying only Nanjiro could activate it in terms of Japanese players.

    It gives you a boost. Not a fixed limit. I also didnt say it makes you best in the world, but immediately puts you to the highest section of the Tier list in terms of the Japanese School players.
    If your reading the manga correctly you would know that if Ryoma hits a serve that nobody in the court was able to see, then its clear how amazing the boost TMnK provides.
    We have no reason to believe Tokugawa can defeat TMnK!Tezuka although when watching him, he and Tanegashima were relaxed compared to the rest of the camp. But it was acknowledged that Tezuka was greatly holding back.

    ---------- Post added at 11:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:28 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mystictapion View Post
    I'd like someone explain to me why Yukimura easily returned Rai and Tezuka don't. I'm sure Tezuka's arms are stronger, sorry but Yukimura looks like so fragile and he can understand every shot, but if he hasn't power, it's useless... take like example Kabaji, he knows Jirou's technique but it isn't flexible enough to execute it.
    Nah. You assumed that, but after Yukimura effortlessly returned Big Bang, we knew he was more than meets the eye. Its more than possible Yukimura is as strong as Tezuka. Or even stronger physically. Its just coz his Seiyu is a female your saying that right hahahaha.

  10. #54
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LetalHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Yukimura is probably the strongest in terms of power. Altough his appearance doesn't hint that, he returned Yama Arashi and Rai, so there's no power shot that he can't return. Pretty sure he could return Byodouin's serve.

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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Nah. You assumed that, but after Yukimura effortlessly returned Big Bang, we knew he was more than meets the eye. Its more than possible Yukimura is as strong as Tezuka. Or even stronger physically. Its just coz his Seiyu is a female your saying that right hahahaha.
    Roflmao. "All right, boya!".

    But seriously, I think it is more technique than power that make him to be capable to return power shots.

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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by mystictapion View Post
    Roflmao. "All right, boya!".

    But seriously, I think it is more technique than power that make him to be capable to return power shots.
    This series hasnt been quite clear with that as of yet. But things should be cleared up soon since Duke looks like a Power Player and I expect an MSer to replace him and we know it wont be Ishida or Kawamura so it will likely be an MSer that isnt a Power Player that defeats him which will hopefully show us how the intensely powerful shots are sometimes easily returned.

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  15. #57
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member ashore's Avatar
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    yea auras make the player win, but its the base skills that count. if tezuka vs ryoma both in Perfection mode, tezuka will win. because I speculate perfection mode is a multiplier for base skills. tezuka stronger than echizen w/o perfection and with perfection face to face. now matching someone w/o perfection vs non perfection mode mean one person will overpowr the other. i 'm writing perfection as tnk.

    so when u compare yukmura vs rymoa in perfection mode, yukimura still stronger due to base skills. now who won the match of course ryoma did , he got a boost with tnK to over come his limits.

    also i theorize that's why ryoma doesn't want to use that made unles he has to and that he can indeed acivate it if he wants. He probably wants to up his base skills. speed, strength, stamina, endurance, etc. can't relie on TnK forever.

    EDIT: I already posted a couple reasons why fuji woudl lose but another is because fuji is not a top player in teh pot 1 series.

    atobe, tazuke, sanada, yukimura, and echizen are top tier players. fuji is not in that catagory and Irie owns atobe pretty good so if fuji not in the top or can defeat any of the top players no way he can win vs Irie, maybe close loss but he cant win.

    Irie would sense fuji's thoughts on the new counters fuji makes and Irie would just counter them so fast, since he knows how they work.
    Last edited by ashore; March 27, 2012 at 04:56 PM.

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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by ashore View Post
    EDIT: I already posted a couple reasons why fuji woudl lose but another is because fuji is not a top player in teh pot 1 series.

    atobe, tazuke, sanada, yukimura, and echizen are top tier players. fuji is not in that catagory and Irie owns atobe pretty good so if fuji not in the top or can defeat any of the top players no way he can win vs Irie, maybe close loss but he cant win.
    Huh??
    Your putting Atobe with Tezuka, Sanada and Yukimura?
    Dont do that. Atobe is not out of Fuji's tier. At least Nationals!Atobe was not out of Nationals!Fuji's tier.
    But Yukimura, Tezuka and Sanada are without doubt the best. Just the flash back of the 3 of them Three Years Prior To The Storyline hints that.
    Fuji IS a Top player in the PoT 1 series.

    ---------- Post added at 04:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:31 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ashore View Post
    yea auras make the player win, but its the base skills that count. if tezuka vs ryoma both in Perfection mode, tezuka will win. because I speculate perfection mode is a multiplier for base skills.
    No shit sherlock lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by ashore View Post
    tezuka stronger than echizen w/o perfection and with perfection face to face. now matching someone w/o perfection vs non perfection mode mean one person will overpowr the other. i 'm writing perfection as tnk.
    I dont understand this.
    Are you saying Tezuka > TMnK!Ryoma? (I hope not)

    Quote Originally Posted by ashore View Post
    so when u compare yukmura vs rymoa in perfection mode, yukimura still stronger due to base skills. now who won the match of course ryoma did , he got a boost with tnK to over come his limits.
    pfftt forget base skills. Once TMnK is activated, stats freaking multiply. Once TMnK is activated, the opponent has lost. Since we are yet to see TMnK Countered.

    Quote Originally Posted by ashore View Post
    also i theorize that's why ryoma doesn't want to use that made unles he has to and that he can indeed acivate it if he wants. He probably wants to up his base skills. speed, strength, stamina, endurance, etc. can't relie on TnK forever.
    Not impossible but I cant think why he didnt bring it out when he was recieving his ass-whooping from Tokugawa.

  17. #59
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member ashore's Avatar
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Huh??
    Your putting Atobe with Tezuka, Sanada and Yukimura?
    Dont do that. Atobe is not out of Fuji's tier. At least Nationals!Atobe was not out of Nationals!Fuji's tier.
    But Yukimura, Tezuka and Sanada are without doubt the best. Just the flash back of the 3 of them Three Years Prior To The Storyline hints that.
    Fuji IS a Top player in the PoT 1 series.
    you just wrote that tezuka , sanada, and yukimura aare the best so would they are considered top tier, and fuji is below them therefore fuji isn't not top tier even in pot 1.

    I may have jumped the gun on atobe by making him the level of sanada, yukimura, and tezuka.

    his frozen world may have taken out sanada. but thanks to no good character opinions, like yukimura, who told sanada that he would have lost , even though it wasn't true. the fact that atobe was struggling to sanada and always trying to beat tezuka could means he's not top tier. I just recall people saying atobe was at national level. no one says fuji is.

    atobe may not be at the top,so I'd put him close to fuji's level.
    Last edited by ashore; March 27, 2012 at 06:19 PM.

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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by ashore View Post
    also i theorize that's why ryoma doesn't want to use that made unles he has to and that he can indeed acivate it if he wants. He probably wants to up his base skills. speed, strength, stamina, endurance, etc. can't relie on TnK forever.
    Echizen didn't know he would remain in the camp after that match, there was no reason for him to hold back and not use TnK at that time. As far as we know he didn't though, which makes it somewhat likely that he couldn't.

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