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Thread: Fuji vs Irie

  1. #61
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Yukimura is significantly better than Nationals!Ryoma w/out TMnK.
    Yukimura walks over Sanada w/out Black Aura...
    Aura clearly means everything here.
    Yukimura was way higher in skill than Echizen during the Nationals, yes. However, TMnK boosted Echizen's skill to a level higher than Yukimura, which is why Yukimura lost. As for Sanada, they are equal in everything but Yips. Yips are what make Yukimura not tie Sanada. Aura means nothing, it is the skill level increase that the aura brings.

    Quote Quote:
    ...You somehow feel Tokugawa is better than the boost that TMnK provides? TMnK!Ryoma would defeat him as far as we have been shown.
    Tokugawa couldnt return Cool Drive first time while Yukimura did so with ease. So therefore I believe its fair to say TMnK!Ryoma would defeat Tokugawa. If your reading the manga correctly you would know that if Ryoma hits a serve that nobody in the court was able to see, then its clear how amazing the boost TMnK provides.
    Did you forget that the very same serve you were amazed by was returned by Nationals Yukimura, and then proceeded to have an entire rally? Some boost. If Yukimura (who is significantly worse than Kazuya at this point) was able to rally completely fine against TMnK Echizen, Kazuya would have beat him. Not to mention the whole cool drive thing was completely on purpose.

    Quote Quote:
    his frozen world may have taken out sanada.
    If you blindfold Sanada, tie one of his legs, and tell him not to use Lightning's teleport or Shadow's protection against insight, then yes.
    Last edited by Fayte; March 27, 2012 at 11:44 PM.

  2. #62
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    If you blindfold Sanada, tie one of his legs, and tell him not to use Lightning's teleport or Shadow's protection against insight, then yes.
    I'm sure that Atobe Kingdom can break Rai and In, Koori no Sekai no.

  3. #63
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LetalHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Yukimura is stronger than nationals Echizen. Sanada is stronger than Atobe and nationals Tezuka, and Yukimura is stronger than nationals Echizen, Sanada, Atobe and nationals Tezuka.

    Right now, being able to hit 10 balls, Echizen has surpassed Yukimura in base skill. Echizen would defeat Yukimura right now without TnK, just the fact that he can hit 10 balls and that he has Hyakuren and Saiki are more than enough reasons to defeat Yukimura. I don't think Yips would work on Echizen in case they play a rematch.

    And of course, Tnk Tezuka>>Sanada, Yukimura and Atobe. Instead, I think Echizen and Tezuka are equal right now, we don't know how many balls Tezuka can hit, and Echizen improved greatly since he went to the mountains.

    ---------- Post added at 06:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:26 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mystictapion View Post
    I'm sure that Atobe Kingdom can break Rai and In, Koori no Sekai no.
    Or not, Sanada, even he can't move, could teleport to the spot where the ball is and return it, so AK wouldn't work against Rai. What prevents you from teleporting? Nothing, then AK, like Koori No Sekai, wouldn't work. Also, with BA, Sanada would crush Atobe 6-0.
    Last edited by LetalHawk; March 28, 2012 at 07:30 AM.

  4. #64
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Fuji Shusuke's Avatar
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Ok, here is my theory in why Echizen did not use Muga and it's doors in NPoT so far.

    Has anyone thought that maybe he can't use them? Muga is a place you go when you surpass your own limits, and perhaps Ryoma has raised his own limits during training so he has yet to surpass them again. Also, since the doors come after the initial activation of Muga, the doors: Hyakuren, Saiki and Ten'imuhou that Echizen had unlocked before, are not accessible anymore (at this time). So even though Ten'imuhou multiplies base skill level, if you cannot pass that skill level first, you cannot use it.
    "Sorry, but I never lose to the same opponent twice." - Fuji

  5. #65
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Yukimura was way higher in skill than Echizen during the Nationals, yes. However, TMnK boosted Echizen's skill to a level higher than Yukimura, which is why Yukimura lost. As for Sanada, they are equal in everything but Yips. Yips are what make Yukimura not tie Sanada. Aura means nothing, it is the skill level increase that the aura brings.
    Why are you repeating what I have told you? I said Yukimura is better than Echizen but TMnK was the boost that made him win. You were originally against that. It proves Aura is everything against Yips as far as we have been shown. Until we see an Aura-less person shakes off yips with ease, then it remains an Aura thing.

    Yukimura and Sanada are NOT equal. Yukimura returned EVERYTHING Sanada had with ease. Remember Yukimura didnt say he got serious till that shot flew past him and tore off his head band. Yukimura had shut down all the techniques Sanada had. Its not til Black Aura arrive did Sanada stop being shut down.
    The Aura means everything.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Did you forget that the very same serve you were amazed by was returned by Nationals Yukimura, and then proceeded to have an entire rally? Some boost. If Yukimura (who is significantly worse than Kazuya at this point) was able to rally completely fine against TMnK Echizen, Kazuya would have beat him. Not to mention the whole cool drive thing was completely on purpose.
    Ryoma slowed things down. He said he would slow things down for Yukimura. Did you not read the same manga? Why are you denying the Cool Drive thing? Only the Samurai Drive part I imagine was Ryoma's TMnK proper speed.

    Saying it was on purpose is just silly. Regardless of whether it was plot power or not is irrelevant as Konomi officially gave him the power to see through special shots. Yukimura returned it first time and Tokugawa couldnt. End of story.
    Tokugawa is not as high up as you think he is. Although he is amazing.

    TMnK IS the difference that made him win. Nothing more to it.

    ---------- Post added at 12:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by LetalHawk View Post
    Or not, Sanada, even he can't move, could teleport to the spot where the ball is and return it, so AK wouldn't work against Rai. What prevents you from teleporting? Nothing, then AK, like Koori No Sekai, wouldn't work. Also, with BA, Sanada would crush Atobe 6-0.
    Dont get carried away. Konomi wouldnt allow this. There will be more some complications with Rai against AK. A 6-0 loss for Atobe is 100% Unrealistic in this series lol.

    ---------- Post added at 12:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuji Shusuke View Post
    Ok, here is my theory in why Echizen did not use Muga and it's doors in NPoT so far.

    Has anyone thought that maybe he can't use them? Muga is a place you go when you surpass your own limits, and perhaps Ryoma has raised his own limits during training so he has yet to surpass them again. Also, since the doors come after the initial activation of Muga, the doors: Hyakuren, Saiki and Ten'imuhou that Echizen had unlocked before, are not accessible anymore (at this time). So even though Ten'imuhou multiplies base skill level, if you cannot pass that skill level first, you cannot use it.
    Are you saying he cant open any doors of Muga anymore? I dont get it.

    Also Kaoz has said this several times before. Ryoma didnt know he would stay in the camp if he forfeited his own Tie-break. So why would he not go all out?? Its that simple. For now we can assume he cant access TMnK at will. He has only accessed it twice in 2 pinches against Tooyama and Yukimura.

  6. #66
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LetalHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post

    ---------- Post added at 12:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 PM ----------



    Dont get carried away. Konomi wouldnt allow this. There will be more some complications with Rai against AK. A 6-0 loss for Atobe is 100% Unrealistic in this series lol.

    ---------- Post added at 12:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:16 PM ----------



    Are you saying he cant open any doors of Muga anymore? I dont get it.

    Also Kaoz has said this several times before. Ryoma didnt know he would stay in the camp if he forfeited his own Tie-break. So why would he not go all out?? Its that simple. For now we can assume he cant access TMnK at will. He has only accessed it twice in 2 pinches against Tooyama and Yukimura.
    He only showed it against Yukimura, but since we discussed that before, I accept your theory that he also against Tooyama, but I'm not sure, so that remains a mistery lol.

  7. #67
    Intl Translator 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Airgrimes's Avatar
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by LetalHawk View Post
    He only showed it against Yukimura, but since we discussed that before, I accept your theory that he also against Tooyama, but I'm not sure, so that remains a mistery lol.
    WE saw him use it agaisnt Tooyama. We saw the flash. The audience all said that it was TMnK. When Fuji and Chitose said it was TMnK, what is it that makes you STILL feel he didnt?
    Why else would Fuji's and Chitose's pupils have been shivering? Re-watch the Nationals. It will help. I cant believe you can watch the series and not notice that the first time we see TMnK was against Tooyama.

  8. #68
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LetalHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    WE saw him use it agaisnt Tooyama. We saw the flash. The audience all said that it was TMnK. When Fuji and Chitose said it was TMnK, what is it that makes you STILL feel he didnt?
    Why else would Fuji's and Chitose's pupils have been shivering? Re-watch the Nationals. It will help. I cant believe you can watch the series and not notice that the first time we see TMnK was against Tooyama.
    Of course their eyes were like that. But do they knew how TnK was, where they sure? Or if Echizen hair was spiking upwards? Nobody knew that TnK was related to enjoying tennis until Nanjiro explained to them, so I don't see any proof he was using it.

    They were amazed no doubt, but if it was TnK, at least Echizen would have different hair or something, the ball was split in half due to Samurai Drive.

  9. #69
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by LetalHawk View Post
    Of course their eyes were like that. But do they knew how TnK was, where they sure? Or if Echizen hair was spiking upwards? Nobody knew that TnK was related to enjoying tennis until Nanjiro explained to them, so I don't see any proof he was using it.

    They were amazed no doubt, but if it was TnK, at least Echizen would have different hair or something, the ball was split in half due to Samurai Drive.
    Wrong. Chitose mentioned TMnK to Tezuka after Shitenhouji VS Fudomine. Its in your interest to re-watch if you didnt know this.
    Chitose and Fuji said the words TMnK. This happened prior to Nanjiro talking to them about it.
    Start from Nationals Ep. 14.

    The proof is the big flash, and more importantly, the fact that Konomi had characters say that he used it. That is CONCRETE proof. He exited TMnK the moment he finished Samurai Drive. Which means the smoke prevented us from seeing the effect on his hair. This had to be done since it was not the finals. Why would Konomi show the FINAL technique before the Finals?
    How you dont understand that TMnK was used then baffles me. It was made perfectly clear by Chitose and Fuji.

  10. #70
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by LetalHawk View Post
    Or not, Sanada, even he can't move, could teleport to the spot where the ball is and return it, so AK wouldn't work against Rai. What prevents you from teleporting? Nothing, then AK, like Koori No Sekai, wouldn't work. Also, with BA, Sanada would crush Atobe 6-0.
    Rai is still movement. It's movement at godlike speed, but it's movement, so it should still be useless against AK. Of course, if Sanada hit the second part of Rai, Atobe probably couldn't use AK anymore since, even if he can return it which we don't know, he would probably have to focus his Insight on Rai's movement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuji Shusuke View Post
    Has anyone thought that maybe he can't use them?
    Yes. I've been saying that for around a year now I believe

    To be fair though, I originally limited it to TnK only. However if he doesn't use any of the doors in his next match, I would remove them from his skill set for the time being.

    I'm fairly certain that he can still use the basic Muga though, simply because Sanada was also able to enter it in the Kantou finals, even though he wasn't anywhere near his limit (he still had Rai and In, even though he chose not to use them).

    In Echizen's case the difference between Muga and the doors is that, while he is actually able to control Muga (maybe the best out of everyone we've seen so far), he gained all the doors in a sudden burst of growth, so it's possible that he hasn't actually figured out how to control them properly.

    I think the reason why we haven't seen Muga anymore is the same as why Yukimura and Sanada don't use it, they are stronger without it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    WE saw him use it agaisnt Tooyama. We saw the flash. The audience all said that it was TMnK. When Fuji and Chitose said it was TMnK, what is it that makes you STILL feel he didnt?
    Why else would Fuji's and Chitose's pupils have been shivering? Re-watch the Nationals. It will help. I cant believe you can watch the series and not notice that the first time we see TMnK was against Tooyama.
    I think the main confusion with this is that, while Chitose and Fuji imply that it was TnK, Nanjirou's comment afterwards implies that it wasn't, and people interpret it as Konomi saying how it really is though Nanjirou.

    Personally, I think that he did use TnK for that one shot against Kintarou as Chitose and Fuji said, but as Nanjirou's comment implies, it was only some sort of proto type and not the real thing, which can also be seen as the cause for him not being able to get both halves of the ball over the net.

  11. #71
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Why are you repeating what I have told you? I said Yukimura is better than Echizen but TMnK was the boost that made him win. You were originally against that.
    I never argued against it. You must have misunderstood my posts.

    Quote Quote:
    Yukimura and Sanada are NOT equal. Yukimura returned EVERYTHING Sanada had with ease.
    Lol. And Sanada returned EVERYTHING Yukimura had with ease. Why do you think they were still rallying for the first point while every other match was ending? Why do you think Yukimura got the first point only when Yips activated? You're telling me that wasn't a stalemate up until that point? Don't be silly.

    Quote Quote:
    Regardless of whether it was plot power or not is irrelevant as Konomi officially gave him the power to see through special shots. Yukimura returned it first time and Tokugawa couldnt. End of story.
    And somehow this means something? Why did you even mention this? Only an idiot would say Nationals Yukimura is better than Kazuya. Kazuya can easily hit 10 balls at the same time, and Yukimura barely hit 2. You're telling me Kazuya didn't miss the Cool Drive on purpose (when the anime cleared up the fact he did)? Cool story bro.

    Quote Quote:
    WE saw him use it agaisnt Tooyama. We saw the flash. The audience all said that it was TMnK. When Fuji and Chitose said it was TMnK, what is it that makes you STILL feel he didnt?
    You mean besides the fact that after everyone was suggesting it was TMnK, Nanjiroh said it wasn't?

  12. #72
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by LetalHawk View Post
    Or not, Sanada, even he can't move, could teleport to the spot where the ball is and return it, so AK wouldn't work against Rai. What prevents you from teleporting? Nothing, then AK, like Koori No Sekai, wouldn't work. Also, with BA, Sanada would crush Atobe 6-0.
    Or not. It's just fast steps, then IF the ball bounce on the court, maybe he doesn't arrive in time, depending of time of reaction of him.

  13. #73
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LetalHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Rai grants you inhuman speed, it automatically sends you to where the ball is. Even if you can't move, you can still teleport.

  14. #74
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    And somehow this means something? Why did you even mention this? Only an idiot would say Nationals Yukimura is better than Kazuya. Kazuya can easily hit 10 balls at the same time, and Yukimura barely hit 2. You're telling me Kazuya didn't miss the Cool Drive on purpose (when the anime cleared up the fact he did)? Cool story bro.
    Cool story's on you since NOBODY said that Tokugawa was weaker than Nationals!Yukimura. Your going on like he is an untouchable character. My point was he's not that far off from a few characters.
    Also what your now saying is irrelevant. The point was you said that Auras mean nothing against Yips. Its a baseless thing to say considering its not been overcome without an aura. end of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    You mean besides the fact that after everyone was suggesting it was TMnK, Nanjiroh said it wasn't?
    Did he specifically say it wasnt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Lol. And Sanada returned EVERYTHING Yukimura had with ease. Why do you think they were still rallying for the first point while every other match was ending? Why do you think Yukimura got the first point only when Yips activated? You're telling me that wasn't a stalemate up until that point? Don't be silly.
    Fair enough.
    Last edited by Airgrimes; March 29, 2012 at 02:30 PM.

  15. #75
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LetalHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Fuji vs Irie

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Cool story's on you since NOBODY said that Tokugawa was weaker than Nationals!Yukimura. Your going on like he is an untouchable character. My point was he's not that far off from a few characters.



    Did he specifically say it wasnt?

    ---------- Post added at 11:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 AM ----------



    Fair enough.
    Echizen is right now at Tokugawa's level, Sanada probably is almost there, and if Yukimura trained in the mountains, he'll be the strongest now. Probably stronger than Tokugawa, and I'm sure Yukimura can hit 6 or 5 balls at the same time right now.

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