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Thread: Bleach Fan League (BFL) Thread

  1. #121
    ~ Forum Fixer ~ 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Miyagi's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Fan League (BFL) Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    I'm not too sure if the ability reflected the ability in the manga accurately. I don't believe that ability A is as strong as ability B, for example. The "ultimate" for each characters are not equal in the manga.
    ...
    I would prefer it more if there's "cost" which is relative to characters' strength. The "balance" also is a difficult things to archive without the cost. If it were balance, it means that each characters in the game, IF the owner pick the move right, should be able to get a draw against the opponent. Otherwise, the opponent characters is a "stronger" characters. I recommend tallying up all the results for each characters to see their win and lose history. And if you can form a tier with that tallies, there's a hole you need to fill. Also, if you saw some constant win or lose history, that is also something you might want to fix.
    That's true. For example under normal circumstances Harribel can't defeat Aizen in the manga, I purposely made Aizen weaker and Harribel stronger to let them fight on equal terms. A cost system would probably solve this problem but it has its own problems. It's much harder to make characters strong enough to justify their cost. In current system, all characters are more or less equal, so cost isn't an issue. Also we only choose two characters which severely limits our options in a cost system, for example if you are allowed to pick two players with 20 total cost and you choose a character with 13 cost as your first pick, you will be forced to choose a character who has 7 cost which will make most teams predetermined. In SPoT fan league, there are more than 100 characters to choose from and every players chooses eight characters which makes the cost system a lot more viable. As we add more characters to BFL, I guess we can use a cost system once we have enough characters.

    It's also very hard to make a system where every character can draw against every other character with each character having very different abilities. In current system, some characters are certainly better than others in certain match-ups and can always win with perfect play but the number of advantageous match-ups for each character is almost equal and every player should be able to collect seven points in seven games if he/she employs good strategy but I guess luck factor can affect the results up to 2-3 points under normal circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    I'm aware that players can pick their characters, which made the balance in the game a little bit in the air. I'm not sure about their balance. We haven't try enough fights with the variation in their techniques to have a big enough sample size. The sample size would have to be a lot bigger.
    I used computer simulations to make characters as balanced as possible but of course play with real players can be a lot different. For example it can be much easier to find the correct strategy for certain characters whereas some characters which have relatively complex abilities may require a bit of thinking. As you and Kaoz said, we need more samples to make sure they're indeed balanced but I guess there's not yet an observable weakness in the small sample we have.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    I feel like 3 characters per player would be more enjoyable. I do think good strategy CAN pay off. But there's only a small sample size right now, so it's hard to be sure. And there's only 2 characters slot. There's only so much you can do with it. With 3, you are forced to do much more prediction.
    Do you mean "3 1 vs 1 fights" or "1 3 vs 3 fight" like Kaoz suggested? We may try a system where three characters can fight side by side as a team and use abilities which enhance their teammates or damage more than one opponent but these kind of abilities are uncommon in Bleach, so it's kinda hard to use such a system. 1 vs 1 fights with 3 characters is easier to employ (and can save me from designing a totally new system which will render my previous work useless lol) but to make it a fair system we will actually need 6 fights, 3 chars will fight twice, once in character 1 position and once in character 2 position. That will triple the amount of work needed to make a strategy which may be bothersome for some players.

    I was thinking about 4 1 vs 1 fights, 2 fights as usual with high-tier characters and 2 more with mid-tier characters. That will be possible if I have the time and energy to make a new set of characters. As you said, there'll be more fights, more strategies and more variety in the teams. The amount of time required to make a strategy will be doubled (which will be 20 mins according to Kaoz's estimates) but if we give 4 days for each round per Kaoz's suggestion, it can solve this problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    That's it for my review of this game. It might look like a lot of negative, but I actually do enjoy the game. So thanks for running it!
    Thanks for your comments, we need them to make the game more fun. I'm glad to hear you enjoyed the game, if you have time to participate I wish you more success next time.

  2. #122
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Fan League (BFL) Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Miyagi View Post
    That's true. For example under normal circumstances Harribel can't defeat Aizen in the manga, I purposely made Aizen weaker and Harribel stronger to let them fight on equal terms. A cost system would probably solve this problem but it has its own problems. It's much harder to make characters strong enough to justify their cost. In current system, all characters are more or less equal, so cost isn't an issue. Also we only choose two characters which severely limits our options in a cost system, for example if you are allowed to pick two players with 20 total cost and you choose a character with 13 cost as your first pick, you will be forced to choose a character who has 7 cost which will make most teams predetermined. In SPoT fan league, there are more than 100 characters to choose from and every players chooses eight characters which makes the cost system a lot more viable. As we add more characters to BFL, I guess we can use a cost system once we have enough characters.
    Yes, but it also means that after enough characters in add, you had to redo all abilities to "balance" characters according to cost. It's probably a good idea for you to decide where you want to go with this league, and design accordingly. I think cost system will pay off in the long run, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miyagi View Post
    Do you mean "3 1 vs 1 fights" or "1 3 vs 3 fight" like Kaoz suggested? We may try a system where three characters can fight side by side as a team and use abilities which enhance their teammates or damage more than one opponent but these kind of abilities are uncommon in Bleach, so it's kinda hard to use such a system. 1 vs 1 fights with 3 characters is easier to employ (and can save me from designing a totally new system which will render my previous work useless lol) but to make it a fair system we will actually need 6 fights, 3 chars will fight twice, once in character 1 position and once in character 2 position. That will triple the amount of work needed to make a strategy which may be bothersome for some players.
    I mean 3 1 vs 1.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miyagi View Post
    Thanks for your comments, we need them to make the game more fun. I'm glad to hear you enjoyed the game, if you have time to participate I wish you more success next time.
    I don't mind my results at all, lol. You can ask Kaoz how he did in first few SPoT fan league he take part in. He deserve this win.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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  4. #123
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member jimtors's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Fan League (BFL) Thread

    When will the next Bleach Fan League be? I'm so excited to participate again. Thanks!

  5. #124
    ~ Forum Fixer ~ 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Miyagi's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Fan League (BFL) Thread

    I'm planning to add a new tier of characters for next BFL but lately I was a bit busy and I couldn't work on it. Hopefully I'll finish it in 2-3 weeks time and we can start a new BFL with more characters and fights. If you have any suggestions, feel free to post it in this thread.

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