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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
Like Hohogaeshi if it hits he loses. Zan might counter this. Downside is we don't know what zan is other than a defensive move. Same with Hakyruu. I think Fuji can return Fuu. I think it's reasonable to mimic a person that just beat Fuji.
I would like to see how Rin the Drop shot/Lob would defeat Hakuryuu lmao.
Please, tell me how Zan beats Hakuryuu too. Sanada needs to either leap up to smash down Hakuryuu like Niou!Tezuka and Niou!Shiraishi did or he's lost the point.
Sanada will effortlessly catch Hakuryuu and smash it down, but Zan isn't a smash.
Tell me how Fuu, a move with immense Topspin will take winners against Fuji?
Fuu is far from unstoppable. Nationals!Tezuka showed us this. He shat on Fuu.
And that was before he brought out TZ.
It wasn't due to Hyakku Ren either since shots that are too fast for you to handle can't be hit back by Hyakku Ren unless you can reach it yourself as proven by Ryoma VS Yukimura.
Rin isn't just a "lob or drop" shot, it nullifies the spin the ball has (something that Fuji needs to hit properly like half or more of his counters).
Zan isn't a smash, no, it's way more than that. It's like Marui's WC but even better, cause a simple lob can't brake it.
Fuu isn't just "inmense top spin", is an almost invisible swing. And no, not invisible like Chitose's Kamikakushi, invisible because it's damn fast (so CE shouldn't work here). Tezuka shat on the move because he IS in Sanada's level and both of them always had around the same stats, something that I doubt Fuji had.
Also, I think Fuji could be on Sanada's level at this time minus rai/ka. So, Fuu, Rin and Zan shouldn't completely over power him.
...we're talking about Nationals time brah >_>
Why would Shiraishi and Niou return every counter Fuji has but Sanada wouldn't?
Also, of course we're talking about nationals. Where as non tnk Ryoma would stomp Fuji. Assuming he could copy Ryoma. He may not be able to.
Also, now that I think about it, Niou has enough tech to compensate his lack of power, so he should be able to hit Ka too...
On Illusion, it could be that he need preparation time. Think of his match against Yagyuu, he didn't use Illusion back then for whatever reason. In his match against Fuji, 1st stringer 15-16, and G10, he KNOWS he's going to play in all of those match. He might prepare only Tezuka and Shiraishi in National match.
This doesn't really explain why he can illusion into twin, though.
Maybe I'll just go with Fuji can just used closed eyes again and beat him in rally as long as long as he didn't use court ball, as closed eye Fuji>>>>>>>>>>>>Niou in rally. So there's just no more point in that match once Fuji beat his court ball as well.
This is all National, of course.
---------- Post added at 09:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:27 PM ----------
---------- Post added October 19, 2013 at 12:00 AM ---------- Previous post was October 18, 2013 at 11:56 PM ----------
Even if Niou needed preparation, they played for like 14 points, those are more than 3 games, the exact same number that Niou used to "collect data" against Fuji. Would he really need more than that to collect his BEST FRIEND'S data?
The most powerful shot that Niou is confirm hit right now is Kabaji normal hit. And Ka is a more powerful move than that. So it should require more technique to pull off.
Oh, and that's actually pre-mountain training Niou that confirm to hit that. National! Niou should be weaker.
Actually, let's forget that for a bit. I don't like assuming things that much anyways. As shown here, Niou can't even replicate Shiraishi 3.5 power back then.
Shiraishi smash, if 100% replicate cannot be contain without the evolved triple counter.
And if he can replicate the move without preparation, why wouldn't he do it? Tezuka Zone alone can beat Yagyuu. Tezuka Phantom in a 7 point tiebreaker is auto win. Yagyuu doesn't have to believe it's not Tezuka. He just can't fight Tezuka move, even if Niou is the one using it.
Since when is it say that Sanada is Niou best friend? They are on the same team, so they are friend, I'll give you that. But best friend?
Also, you say they play for 3 games, but how many were Niou winning? Niou 14 points that he gather data against Fuji was all that he got dominated and wasn't really even trying to win the point. Why would those 14 points be even to 14 points before? Those 14 points from the beginning are 100% meant to gather data. He wasn't trying to go for anything else. And actually, I count 12. Where is the other 2 point comes from?
The answer is 4 points. He got 4 points in Shiraishi form to change to Sanada. If Niou is trying after he lose to Fuji closed eyes in the beginning, it would be 2 full game. But any less, and that's the amount of time that he already used into preparation to change into Shiraishi and not change into Sanada.
Last edited by -Ken-; October 18, 2013 at 11:19 PM.
Niou took 5 games in a flash using Illusion. . In my opinion Niou Lost because he didn't want to use Hyakuren or Phantom since it puts too much burden in the body. That probably means he couldn't use moves like Rai as it also cause damage to the user. So, he became Shiraishi. But it wasn't enough to beat Fuji. He should've use Hyakuren & Zone to finish off the last game.
We know that Ryoma and Sanada (and I'm talking about them in Muga state) don't have enough tech to hit TZ. Niou does. We know that Ryoma has around the same power of Kirihara (or lower), Kirihara couldn't hit Ka (because his grip wasn't strong enough) but Echizen did, that shows us that Echizen (even lacking power) was able to hit it. Niou SHOULD be able to hit Ka as he more tech than Echizen.
I'm saying that Yagyuu is Niou's best friend, or at least they've been playing doubles for years and know each other perfectly.
I don't know what's your point though. He should gather more data if he actually tried to win some points (considering that the opponent wouldn't have to do much to score), otw the data would suck.
Are you saying if Yagyuu can see through the Illusion, Niiou can't actually do the shot? That's strange, because some panel show Niou using the move of the one that he illusion. That might simply suggest Niou need preparation time to used it, which 7 point tiebreaker is simply not enough time at that time. Like Kaoz say, illusion can just improve.
Considering that the 3 game that he gather data against Fuji, Niou pretty much sucks pretty hard, I doubt that it is the case. I don't know about it making sense or not. It's simply what shown in the manga.
[QUOTE=Hardy;3569430]Sorry, I don't undestand ya ://[QUOTE]
If he used the data before to change into Shiraishi, there will only be 4 points left now to get the data needed to change into Sanada.
Last edited by -Ken-; October 19, 2013 at 11:20 AM.
...uh, why do we care about tech when it comes to performing ka? Sure Niou!Sanada can preform Ka, but with Niou's much lower strength stat than Sanada, it'll probably have the power of normal smash (probably still less than Momo's dunk). I don't see that doing squat to Kirin.
Either way, I think it's more than reasonable to chose Shiraishi. It's pretty normal to lose to an opponent you just lost to.
Some how I think Niou's illusion is very mental based. I think that he can perform nearly all techniques shown in PoT/SPoT. But to a computer they may not have the same power, speed, spin (think 90% vs 100%, very close but not the same). The remaining 10% is tricked or the illusion part to make you think your fighting against the same caliber of player/move.
Hence why it may not work on Yagyuu. After all, when Echizen did zero-shiki drop shot for the first time he lowered his racket too much while doing it. Which according to Inui mean it wouldn't work again as the opponent would have more time to react. Niou's voice always lowered when he was tricking. Which may give Yagyuu the necessary time to react properly.
I donno though Illusion is BS and I hate Niou about half as much as I hate Ryoma.