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Ace could use king haki when he was just a child,although he couldn't control it. according to what he said when he saw rufy using it,he was able to use haki,and it would have been a waste not to protect rufy with haki. hence I think both ace and akainu used it,yet ace's haki wasn't strong enough to compete to akainu's,as tashigi's one wasn't to bear Law's power.
To be completely honest the death of ace by magma has always been exceptionally weird to me. We have seen a number of times how DFs work and their interaction. In particular, one of the most interesting parts of the interaction is how they can cancel or counter each other to almost extreme degrees. Luffy's immunity to lightning, mr 3's capacity to defend from poison and a few other things have almost gone as far as setting the tone for entire arcs and have proven to be defining to say the least. However no matter how I look at it, the explanation about why akainu was able to burn ace is kinda lacking specially considering oda does tend to be rather consistent in those details. Ultimately the explanation given by akainu as to why he was able to burn ace does not exactly make sense to say the least. Why would something hotter be able to burn fire? How is more heat going to affect fire in such a way that it can burn it? If anything, it would make more sense for ace to be able to take in the heat of akainu's magma and add the extra temperature to his own fire IMO. Its not like magma can put out fire in the context we saw it either. There are a number of ways akainu could have conceivably extinguished ace's flame through the use of his very solid magma and then burn him (for example a large enough amount of magma would do the trick as it would burn a decent bit of air around).
Now, when I first saw the manga my first thought was that haki was indeed the reason for this. Haki does not cancel devil fruit abilities in the same way as BB's devil fruit or sea stone however it does allow normal physical contact with the actual body of logia or paramecia users. In this regard, people hit by haki would remain as their particular element. Now, if akainu used haki it would allow for physical contact with ace's body and also burn him with magma since the magma is indeed at a higher temperature than what his fire is.
Now, in writing this thread I actually came up with another interesting idea which would pretty much fit what we saw. As we know, fire needs some fuel or whatnot to burn. Normally we see stuff using oxygen to burn. I think it is a fairly reasonable assumption that under the scenario that ace runs out of oxygen his fire would run out and he would be forced solid. Of course, under that line of thought anything that deprives ace of oxygen would at large force him solid. How about if this was the reason for which akainu was able to burn ace? Magma is under manga rules hotter than fire. This would mean that when akainu punched ace he was at the same time burning the very air ace needed to remain as fire thus it forced him solid thus burning him. It would pretty much fit the idea that he was able to burn ace because he was hotter to some degree right?
We don't really need scientific explanations for this one. Akainu's magma punch injured Ace because Ace was trying to protect Luffy. He tried to stop the punch using his DF. He used his body as a fire wall to stop Akainu's attack but as Akainu mentioned, his magma is superior to Ace's fire. If Ace wasn't protecting anyone, Akainu's punch would've just passed through Ace's flaming body.
As to Akainus punch through Ace, I think he used haki. I believe once u mastered haki u will use it regardless. Its in your fighting style, which you acquired through hard training. As such you will do it per instinct.
Even in real life the same concept applies, I mean if you do a certain routine day by day, you will automatically master it. Starting at some point you will do that routine mindlessly. Be it driving, swimming or whatever.
Though not his strongest attack, Akainu put everything into his fist, logically haki included. I don't see a reason for him going holding back at anything, he wanted to take his life for sure. It was a battlefield. That's at least my understanding.
Furthermore in my understanding u can only create a force field to defend and send back the attack, if the opponent has a lot a weaker haki as urself or no haki at all.
cnets translation (573), my doubts disappeared.In my understanding magma consumes fire. Magma is melted rock, a solid form of dense heat. While fire is gaseous, without any solid form. As such magma sucks in (consumes) fire and makes it part of itself. Hence fire dissolves and becomes part of magma.Originally Posted by cnet 573
That's at least my understanding after reading cnets version of Akainus lines. I don't know if its physically correct or anything, and tbh I don't care. After all Oda was never rly about physics. Anyway, It makes much more sense now in my head with a graphical scenario lol.
Well, strictly speaking fire is not gas at all. Fire is pretty much something on its own. Fire can be generated from gas but in itself it is not gas. Even with that explanation my little theory fits though. Akainu gives of heat of his own and does not need anything to burn. Ace needs air to burn thus akainu burning the air faster than what ace did would result in him hurting ace.
Back in school as I was about 15, so basically 10 years ago I learned of three different forms to describe a element (object of any kind). 1. liquid 2. gaseous and 3. solid. Im not sure whether "gaseous" is the correct English term, here in Germany I learned it as "gasförmig". Via dictionary it translates to "gaseous" xD. feel free to correct me if Im wrong. Im not trying to be physically here, as Im faraway from being an expert.
Anyway, I wasn't saying fire is gas, but that fire is of no solid form. As of ur theory, if you are saying magma burns oxygen faster than fire, Im not disagreeing. As it still fits Akainus line of superior element.
guys, fire IS gas.
fire is GLOWING gas. it can be anything, from nitrogen to carbon dioxide to oxygen, as long as it's heated above a certain temperature it glows. then as it rises up in convection, it loses that heat, and eventually stops glowing. that's why fire flickers.
meanwhile, new gas particles are pulled in from the bottom and side and they get heated up by the reaction too. they go through the same process of glowing, rising, unglowing.
also, (if you're burning something, and that releases gases) the gases produced in the exothermic reaction are hot too, and they go through the same convection, heat loss, stopping glowing
fire IS gas.
fire doesn't have to mean combustion, but i think oda thought it was that.
if you have a hot enough metal rod smothered in an inert atmosphere, even if no combustion is taking place, if the metal can heat the gas to glowing levels, it can be on 'fire', even without any oxygen
fire is glowing gas indicative of combustion, not combustion itself.
Last edited by hyper_megaman; June 13, 2012 at 12:00 AM.
in our environment, that could be one of the most common ways a flame is presented, actually. it's responsible for extremely tall/long flames at much lower temperatures (lighters, etc)
i pointed that out in:
This whole debate is ridiculous. Fire can not be burned anymore than water can get wet. Lava is not fire. It's molten rock, superheated by internal pressure in the mantle, rising up through cracks in the surface caused by plate tectonics. Lava is so hot that it can burn or start a fire on contact with combustible material (a tree, grass, people), but it is in no way physically related to fire. Oda was trying to establish Akainu's devil fruit power as stronger than Ace's, and made a rather silly gaff in the process. He is a magaka, not a geologist or physicist, forgive him.
Any debate about how lava can burn fire is closed. It is impossible by definition. If you disagree, go do research. Wikipedia should tell you all you need to know. Dissenting opinions do not count when they contradict reality and high school science. Thread closed.
Last edited by Kaiten; June 16, 2012 at 11:34 AM.