Sakamichi no Apollon

[destiny4ever]

Well I watched the crunchyroll version so maybe it was them that added the jazz slang. I think it was a pretty cool addition in that it makes the story a lot more 60's like.

Thank you for answering my question, CrudeCross! I’m not familiar with jazz slang so even if the sub team I watched the ep from used it in the ep I would have missed it.

Amazing show. It's been a while since I've been impressed with an anime series.

Welcome to this thread, barbapapa! ^_^ I’m glad to read you’re enjoying the series, it is a fantastic series I totally agree with you.

---------- Post added at 02:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:20 PM ----------

Episode 3

Things were made very clear during episode 3; Sentarou is in love with Yurika, Ri-chan is in love with Sentarou, and Kaoru is in love with Ri-chan.

I started this series liking the idea of a possible Sentarou x Ri-chan very much; however, after that wonderful love confession courtesy of Kaoru it is impossible for me not to support Kaoru x Ri-chan. Kaoru’s confession was incredibly heartfelt. His words were filled with so much love, it was an amazing confession and it instantly became one of my favorite love confessions from the anime world. Music and a man speaking right from the heart…what more can you ask for?

Sentarou’s “girlfriend”…was so cute. I think making Sen’s pet a pigeon was a nice way to show Sentarou’s softer/kinder side.

Episode 4

Just when I was beginning to switch myself to the Kaoru x Ri-chan camp…we learned about Sentarou’s past in this episode and I’m between two ship camps again. Sentarou’s past was very painful but what touched my heart the most is how Sentarou didn’t allow for that difficult past to turn him into an angry and bitter man. Sentarou is awesome!! After watching this episode…it is very easy to understand why Ri-chan fell in love with Sen. Ri-chan's love for Sen is not a superficial love based on just looks (I mean Sen is pretty handsome, at least IMHO), she loves Sen for the man he is….too bad Sen still sees Ri-chan as the girl next door and hasn’t noticed that said girl has grown up and now is a cute young woman.

The kiss…props has to be given to Kaoru from having the guts to kiss Ri-chan. It must have taken a lot of courage from his part to do that. While I that kiss, I do understand why Ri-chan reacted in such a way. It was her first kiss and thus it was supposed to be special and I have a feeling she would have wanted for Sentarou - instead of Kaoru- to be the one to steal her first kiss from her lips...


Jun …he is cool!!! It is very understandable why Yurika has fallen for him. I’m not 100% sure if Yurika’s feelings for Jun will be reciprocated but at least now we know that Sentarou’s love for her is a one-sided one.

I’m enjoying this anime a lot and I can’t wait to watch the next episode!

[phio_chan]

Why does this anime suddenly turn to a love square?

Kaoru --> Ri'ko --> Sen --> Yurika --> Jun.

Aaaanyway the music was awesome in episode 4. This is what I have been waiting for. Although I'm not a fan of jazz, their performance was pretty interesting. Dang that Jun, he sang the song "But Not for Me" so beautifully that I feel the urge to check out the song immediately. XD

I'm happy we get to know Sentarou's past. It is very sad, though, neglected by everyone. He must've felt hurt a bit with what Kaoru said before hand, but that surely deepen their friendship. I wonder how Sen managed to be as cheerful as he is now. Kaoru and jazz are probably the keys. Poor Ri-chan... Right when she seemed to want to fix things with Kaoru, he did that... Awwwwwww.

Look forward to next episode, definitely.

[destiny4ever]

Why does this anime suddenly turn to a love square?

Kaoru --> Ri'ko --> Sen --> Yurika --> Jun.

More than being a love square, it is a love pentagon. Now all we need is for Jun to fall in love with a girl and for that girl to fall in love with Kaoru and the love hexagon is complete!

There will be various pairings for this anime but it doesn’t seem like we’ll have a canon couple…

Aaaanyway the music was awesome in episode 4. This is what I have been waiting for. Although I'm not a fan of jazz, their performance was pretty interesting. Dang that Jun, he sang the song "But Not for Me" so beautifully that I feel the urge to check out the song immediately. XD

I haven’t listened to the original song yet, but I do agree that Jun’s performance was awesome!!

I wonder how Sen managed to be as cheerful as he is now. Kaoru and jazz are probably the keys.

Well…I do agree that Kaoru has had a big influence on Sen, but I think the reasons why Sen is the guy he is now and not a bitter and resentful man have to do more with jazz, Ri-chan, Jun, Sen’s family (his mom and his siblings) and Sen himself.

[OtakuModeEngage]

First of all, I really like this anime; the opening is fresh and inviting, the characters are interesting, and the music is entertaining. Haha, that being said however, I'm going to critique it now, because the plot made me a bit sad. Or perhaps romantically frustrated.

Sentarou’s past was very painful but what touched my heart the most is how Sentarou didn’t allow for that difficult past to turn him into an angry and bitter man. Sentarou is awesome!!

In a sense he did; he turned to fighting to express and let out his anger instead of letting it bottle up inside him, yet that is not the best of choices. Also he ran to god, but isn't that no more than a shallow selfish belief, only turning to god for salvation. Well I'm neither religious nor do I have anything against religion, but people who turn to religion out of need alone bother me.

After watching this episode… it is very easy to understand why Ri-chan fell in love with Sen. Ri-chan's love for Sen is not a superficial love based on just looks (I mean Sen is pretty handsome, at least IMHO), she loves Sen for the man he is ….too bad Sen still sees Ri-chan as the girl next door and hasn’t noticed that said girl has grown up and now is a cute young woman.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, it showed plenty of scenes that would suggest him falling for her, since she was always there for him in his time of need, but there was nothing he did to attract romance or woe -directly or indirectly- her. I saw plenty of reason for him to fall in love with her in the flash backs, but not the other way around. I admit I don't understand women at all, because the attraction that you see didn't make sense to me. Maybe if they showed a scene of the two just siting together, and him expressing his emotions, and her showing empathy. This would be a great scene to capture her appreciation of his inner strength. But him fighting, well that doesn't seem to be inner strength to me, more of inner imbalance manifesting itself in brutality. So I can't see it as attractive in the 'she's falling in love with him because he's strong inside' kind of way. Perhaps if he was fighting for her sake. No, rather than fighting, what would show his inner strength is his turning to jazz music; maybe a scene with him just expressing himself through the drums and her watching entranced. I could see that as attractive, instead of bottling up his emotions or exploding in fights, his turning to jazz is an amazing display of inner strength. Alas, I ramble on. Anyways, the point is that the episode showed her supporting and caring for him even though he's fighting and what not, which would make perfect sense for him to fall in love with her, but not her him. I'm not saying her love for him is unreasonable, I just don't believe that how/why she fell in love for him is portrayed in these scenes as you suggest.

The kiss…props has to be given to Kaoru from having the guts to kiss Ri-chan. It must have taken a lot of courage from his part to do that. While I that kiss, I do understand why Ri-chan reacted in such a way. It was her first kiss and thus it was supposed to be special and I have a feeling she would have wanted for Sentarou - instead of Kaoru- to be the one to steal her first kiss from her lips...

But was it really a bad choice? I wonder. Actually, in episode three when they went on a group date, there were moments where she hinted feelings for Kaoru. Remember how sad she was when she said, "So Kaoru invited her?" (note those may not be the exact words) and how sad she was when she came to the conclusion Kaoru liked her? I think there's more to this then meets the eye, and that those tears in her eyes are tears of confusion, that perhaps she is not sure of whether her feelings lean more towards Kaoru or Sentarou. I predict that we may see her leaning more towards Kaoru in the future. Perhaps he just needs to take it slow, but continue to push his way into her heart. Though once again, that may be bad advice, since I don't understand girls.

Jun …he is cool!!! It is very understandable why Yurika has fallen for him. I’m not 100% sure if Yurika’s feelings for Jun will be reciprocated but at least now we know that Sentarou’s love for her is a one-sided one.

To be honest, that's really bothersome, did she not like Sentarou, are girls feelings truly so fickle and weak? That's rather discouraging and depressing to say the least. Well maybe he was no more than an art tool and friend to her, but if she didn't reciprocate his feelings, her actions sure gave the wrong impression. Shame.

---------- Post added at 03:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:50 AM ----------

uh... sorry for the wall of text. To leave this on a good note, Ganbatte KaoruXRi-chan!!!

[Crude]

I can see why it's called a love congo-line now

It's refreshing to see a protagonist actually do something about his/her love rather than just waiting for something to happen, but kissing Ri-chan out of the blue like that was probably a little too much. I felt bad for both of them. And wow, I did not expect Sentaro's past to be that heavy. Guy went through a lot. So right now he's living with his uncle's family right?

The Jazz session was awesome in this episode, too bad it got interrupted by the racist drunk. But then we got to see Jun's mad skills ! I wonder if he's so passionate about Jazz that he'd like to pursue a career in that area. And something tells me that we've just seen the first mutual attraction in this show (Jun and Yurika).

[destiny4ever]

In a sense he did; he turned to fighting to express and let out his anger instead of letting it bottle up inside him, yet that is not the best of choices.

I admit that I was blinded by my fangirlism and you are right, Sen’s past did affect him. And now that you have mentioned it, it is interesting to notice the contrast between Kaoru and Sentarou. Kaoru usually lets things get bottled up inside him and then it explodes, while Sentarou lets everything out but turning to fighting. The one thing they have in common is that neither one of them is very good at expressing his feeling with words. Having said that, now I see Sentarou’s conversation with Kaoru all the more meaningful and touching.

I'm not saying her love for him is unreasonable, I just don't believe that how/why she fell in love for him is portrayed in these scenes as you suggest.

Maybe I expressed myself incorrectly, but I wasn’t referring to the fighting scenes. I was referring to the scene in which Kaoru mentions something along the lines of “this is the guy Ri-chan fell in love with” or something like that. It was during their conversation about Sen’s past. What I was saying, and of course it is just my opinion, is that Ri-chan loves Sen because regardless of how difficult Sen’s past was he was able to not let that past totally affect him, I mean Sen is still kind, sweet, and caring. Ri-chan didn’t fall in love with the aggressive Sen, I think she fell in love with the kinder side of him the one that as his childhood friend she was able to see.

But was it really a bad choice? I wonder. Actually, in episode three when they went on a group date, there were moments where she hinted feelings for Kaoru. Remember how sad she was when she said, "So Kaoru invited her?" (note those may not be the exact words) and how sad she was when she came to the conclusion Kaoru liked her?

Tbh, I didn’t notice that at all. Maybe because the only thing I focused on was Ri-chan crying behind that tree because she realized that Sen had faller for Yurika. I also noticed how upset she was when Yurika suggested climbing together with Sen to the top of that arc.

I think there's more to this then meets the eye, and that those tears in her eyes are tears of confusion, that perhaps she is not sure of whether her feelings lean more towards Kaoru or Sentarou.

Yes, that possibility is present. However, I still think Ri-chan is very much in love with Sentarou. I’m not saying that Ri-chan can’t or won’t fall in love with Kaoru, all I’m saying is that atm she is still in love with Sen.

To be honest, that's really bothersome, did she not like Sentarou, are girls feelings truly so fickle and weak? That's rather discouraging and depressing to say the least.

Maybe it is just me but I never saw something to indicate that Yurika liked Sen in that way. Now about Jun, it was pretty obvious, at least to me, that Yurkia had faller for Jun as soon as Jun’s performance was over.

---------- Post added at 09:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 AM ----------

I can see why it's called a love congo-line now X

Funny but so true.

It's refreshing to see a protagonist actually do something about his/her love rather than just waiting for something to happen, but kissing Ri-chan out of the blue like that was probably a little too much.

ITA. If Kaoru wants to win Ri-chan’s heart he needs to take it slow, well not super slow, but not that fast either otherwise he is going to scare her and ruin any chance of winning her heart.

So right now he's living with his uncle's family right?

I’m confused about that part as well. It seems like it but…Sen also mentioned that his uncle had returned home in all those years…

And something tells me that we've just seen the first mutual attraction in this show (Jun and Yurika).

I’m sure that Yurika has fallen for Jun, but I’m not 100% sure about Jun. I don’t know if he was being suave and cool or if he was really showing his attraction/feeling for Yurika.

[OtakuModeEngage]

I admit that I was blinded by my fangirlism and you are right, Sen’s past did affect him. And now that you have mentioned it, it is interesting to notice the contrast between Kaoru and Sentarou. Kaoru usually lets things get bottled up inside him and then it explodes, while Sentarou lets everything out but turning to fighting. The one thing they have in common is that neither one of them is very good at expressing his feeling with words. Having said that, now I see Sentarou’s conversation with Kaoru all the more meaningful and touching.

I agree

Maybe I expressed myself incorrectly, but I wasn’t referring to the fighting scenes. I was referring to the scene in which Kaoru mentions something along the lines of “this is the guy Ri-chan fell in love with” or something like that. It was during their conversation about Sen’s past. What I was saying, and of course it is just my opinion, is that Ri-chan loves Sen because regardless of how difficult Sen’s past was he was able to not let that past totally affect him, I mean Sen is still kind, sweet, and caring. Ri-chan didn’t fall in love with the aggressive Sen, I think she fell in love with the kinder side of him the one that as his childhood friend she was able to see.

I see, which was expressed by Sen's empathy toward Kaoru; XD you're right.

Tbh, I didn’t notice that at all. Maybe because the only thing I focused on was Ri-chan crying behind that tree because she realized that Sen had faller for Yurika. I also noticed how upset she was when Yurika suggested climbing together with Sen to the top of that arc.

you should re-watch the episode; where she stares, what she says, her thoughts, the tone of her voice. Also, Yurika never said who she wanted to climb up with her, maybe Ri-chan was worried of not only Sen, but Kaoru going up with her. Haha, I could just be making a dinosaur out of dog bones, but I think there is a deep layer of complexity in her feelings.

Yes, that possibility is present. However, I still think Ri-chan is very much in love with Sentarou. I’m not saying that Ri-chan can’t or won’t fall in love with Kaoru, all I’m saying is that atm she is still in love with Sen.

Then wouldn't she slap him, or just turn him away outright, as I recall she has yet to even give him an answer. Its bothersome that people in manga don't just say what they feel, perhaps its a Japanese cultural trait, that they are too shy or prideful to express their true feelings. Or is this a female trait? Jeez, why can't people be prompt, firm, and true to themselves in expressing their feelings? Its okay to be a little more straight forward.

Maybe it is just me but I never saw something to indicate that Yurika liked Sen in that way. Now about Jun, it was pretty obvious, at least to me, that Yurkia had fallen for Jun as soon as Jun’s performance was over.

No, you're right, I don't believe she had feelings for him either, I simply suggest that she lead him on. Talking and walking with only him, suggesting to climb up the hill together that would make them eternal lovers, she gave him her handkerchief, which is a token of her affection via personal artifact, the brazenness to paint him naked, painting him every day. I'm not saying she loved him, just that she gave that impression to Sen; poor Sen!

---------- Post added at 10:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 AM ----------

Actually, its funny, because up until Kaoru asked Ri-chan out, I was under the impression that she loved Kaoru and was crying at the tree because Kaoru loved Yurika, and Kaoru simply misunderstood her. She said as much when they were walking from school together, that Kaoru is in love with Yurika. But from that moment Kaoru asked her out, it became dreadfully apparent that she likes Sen, otherwise she would have responded happily, and wouldn't have cried when he kissed her. But I also feel that she has feelings for Kaoru too, which is why she didn't turn him down firmly, or slap him when he kissed her, why she cried with confusion. Maybe Kaoru just has to help those feelings blossom... though I know this might just be wishful thinking of a fanboy.

---------- Post added at 11:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:46 AM ----------

Oh, what day do the episodes normally come out on?

[destiny4ever]

Then wouldn't she slap him, or just turn him away outright, as I recall she has yet to even give him an answer.

I think the reason why Ri-chan hasn’t given him an answer yet is because she has been looking for the best way to turn him down without hurting him a lot and without ruining their friendship. While I don’t think Ri-chan has romantic feelings for Kaoru, I do think she cares for him as a friend.

Its bothersome that people in manga don't just say what they feel, perhaps its a Japanese cultural trait, that they are too shy or prideful to express their true feelings. Or is this a female trait?

I don’t think it is a cultural thing, I think it has more to do with…trying to find a way to turn someone you care about down without hurting him/her. I can relate to Ri-chan in some way…and I do understand why she hasn’t given an answer to Kaoru yet.

Jeez, why can't people be prompt, firm, and true to themselves in expressing their feelings? Its okay to be a little more straight forward.

I know it should be that way but sometimes being straight forward can hurt people and I think that is why Ri-chan hasn’t given Kaoru an answer yet, she is afraid of hurting him.

No, you're right, I don't believe she had feelings for him either, I simply suggest that she lead him on. Talking and walking with only him, suggesting to climb up the hill together that would make them eternal lovers, she gave him her handkerchief, which is a token of her affection via personal artifact, the brazenness to paint him naked, painting him every day. I'm not saying she loved him, just that she gave that impression to Sen; poor Sen!

Ahhh…I get your point now and you are right. Yurika is guilty of giving Sen mixed signals. I wonder if Yurika did that without noticing it or if she was aware of what she was doing and enjoying playing with Sen’s heart…

But I also feel that she has feelings for Kaoru too

I do think she has feelings for Kaoru but I don’t think they are of a romantic nature. Kaoru has been so nice to Ri-chan and his confession was wonderful, so it would be very hard for Ri-chan not to develop some kind of feelings for Kaoru but I think those feelings are more platonic than romantic.

Maybe Kaoru just has to help those feelings blossom...

If Kaoru wants to win Ri-chan’s heart he needs to follow Risa’s (from Lovely Complex) path, have a lot of patience and don’t give up on Ri-chan even if she turns him down.

Oh, what day do the episodes normally come out on?

I’m not 100% sure but I think the episodes usually come out on Thursdays.

[OtakuModeEngage]

I think the reason why Ri-chan hasn’t given him an answer yet is because she has been looking for the best way to turn him down without hurting him a lot and without ruining their friendship. While I don’t think Ri-chan has romantic feelings for Kaoru, I do think she cares for him as a friend.

That's rather naive way of a thinking though; you will always hurt someone by turning them down, and the longer you take the deeper they fall in love and the more hope builds up inside, making it all the more painful when you finally do turn them down.

I don’t think it is a cultural thing, I think it has more to do with…trying to find a way to turn someone you care about down without hurting him/her. I can relate to Ri-chan in some way…and I do understand why she hasn't given an answer to Kaoru yet.

Really? But I've seen many forms of this dilemma in manga, ranging from 'not being able to turn someone down' to 'not being able to ask someone out'; all of which can be summed into the category of 'not being able to express their feelings firmly and with straightforwardness'. Its a common theme in so, so many manga, that I have come to believe it a cultural thing. Some manga's plots are based entirely on the miscommunication and misunderstanding of feelings because people won't outright say what they feel.

Ahhh…I get your point now and you are right. Yurika is guilty of giving Sen mixed signals. I wonder if Yurika did that without noticing it or if she was aware of what she was doing and enjoying playing with Sen’s heart…

I rather hope it was the latter. Though of course there is a third choice, this being that perhaps she was fostering feelings for him... up until she met Jun.

I do think she has feelings for Kaoru but I don’t think they are of a romantic nature. Kaoru has been so nice to Ri-chan and his confession was wonderful, so it would be very hard for Ri-chan not to develop some kind of feelings for Kaoru but I think those feelings are more platonic than romantic. If Kaoru wants to win Ri-chan’s heart he needs to follow Risa’s (from Lovely Complex) path, have a lot of patience and don’t give up on Ri-chan even if she turns him down.

I feel the same, he just has to keep working at it.

I’m not 100% sure but I think the episodes usually come out on Thursdays.

Thanks, and I rather enjoy discussing Sakamichi no Apollon with you.

[destiny4ever]

That's rather naive way of a thinking though; you will always hurt someone by turning them down, and the longer you take the deeper they fall in love and the more hope builds up inside, making it all the more painful when you finally do turn them down.

You are totally right. But I guess Ri-chan doesn’t want to hurt Kaoru and doesn’t want for their friendship to be destroyed. I mean…once Ri-chan turns Kaoru down…things won’t be the same between them (in fact, after Kaoru’s confession things haven’t been the same) and there is always the possibility that they can’t even be friends anymore. Ri-chan is in a difficult position, on the one hand, she knows turning Kaoru down will hurt him and it can cost her his friendship, but on the other hand, she can’t help but love Sen and can’t be dishonest with her own heart.

Really? But I've seen many forms of this dilemma in manga, ranging from 'not being able to turn someone down' to 'not being able to ask someone out'; all of which can be summed into the category of 'not being able to express their feelings firmly and with straightforwardness'. Its a common theme in so, so many manga, that I have come to believe it a cultural thing. Some manga's plots are based entirely on the miscommunication and misunderstanding of feelings because people won't outright say what they feel.

Well I do agree that they highlight these type of situation in manga/anime, I think regardless of the part of the world, there were always be people finding it hard to express their feelings, especially regarding matters of the heart.

I rather hope it was the latter.

Playing with Sen’s heart? As for me, I hope it is the first one.

Though of course there is a third choice, this being that perhaps she was fostering feelings for him... up until she met Jun.

Yes, you are right!! There is also that possibility. But I guess now we’ll never know.

Thanks, and I rather enjoy discussing Sakamichi no Apollon with you.

You’re welcome and likewise. Thank you for joining this thread and discussing the series with me!

[OtakuModeEngage]

You are totally right. But I guess Ri-chan doesn’t want to hurt Kaoru and doesn’t want for their friendship to be destroyed. I mean…once Ri-chan turns Kaoru down…things won’t be the same between them (in fact, after Kaoru’s confession things haven’t been the same) and there is always the possibility that they can’t even be friends anymore. Ri-chan is in a difficult position, on the one hand, she knows turning Kaoru down will hurt him and it can cost her his friendship, but on the other hand, she can’t help but love Sen and can’t be dishonest with her own heart.

But can you really call them friends as they are now? The healing process that may allow them to become friends once more, cannot begin until she shuts down his advances. Well I understand that doing so is a very real problem even in the real world, and as manga is to reflect the real world, this is perfect. Still I wish her character was a bit stronger, strong enough to make the right choice.

Well I do agree that they highlight these type of situation in manga/anime, I think regardless of the part of the world, there were always be people finding it hard to express their feelings, especially regarding matters of the heart.

I don't know, I mean, a lot of american people are shy with their feelings, but when they finally say them, they make them clear and exact. I just don't see that in Manga. Its short of like how Japanese people rarely use the word Daisuki, and when they do its often a joke. More often, the most they will say to the one they love is Suki, so even though Daisuki is a closer translation of love, Suki is their limit.

Playing with Sen’s heart? As for me, I hope it is the first one.

Ah, that was a slip up, I agree.

You’re welcome and likewise. Thank you for joining this thread and discussing the series with me!

Haha, thanks for inviting me.

[k-dom]

It seems the anime has speed up the translation of the manga: 3 volumes in 2 weeks, now at volume 5 (episode 4 is between end of 2d and beginning of 3d). I strongly recommend to read it even if you are following the anime because some part are missing or slightly different.
However I must said that Jazz music is really good for animation. Although I felt Beck was completely uninteresting compare to the manga, it's a real plus for Apollon.

[OtakuModeEngage]

It seems the anime has speed up the translation of the manga: 3 volumes in 2 weeks, now at volume 5 (episode 4 is between end of 2d and beginning of 3d). I strongly recommend to read it even if you are following the anime because some part are missing or slightly different.
However I must said that Jazz music is really good for animation. Although I felt Beck was completely uninteresting compare to the manga, it's a real plus for Apollon.

considering a volume is like 4-5 chapters, you could pull off half to three quarters of a volume in one week with good pacing... but this is too fast. As for Beck, well that's rock music not Jazz, and also: if you're watching the anime for the Music, Beck is better, because there is way more; but if you're watching for the story line, then I'm not sure yet.

[k-dom]

My point is that in Beck anime, the music completely failed into making pass the atmosphere and feeling of the manga. With Jazz it is more easy since it is standard. even if the romance takes a greater part in the plot, here the music is a real plus so I enjoy watching it for that too

[OtakuModeEngage]

My point is that in Beck anime, the music completely failed into making pass the atmosphere and feeling of the manga. With Jazz it is more easy since it is standard. even if the romance takes a greater part in the plot, here the music is a real plus so I enjoy watching it for that too

Not even, there was that one song in Beck that reoccurred throughout the series, something about the moon, and summed up the protagonist relationship with the heroin. Considering the plot revolved a band around making music, there were a lot more jamming sessions where we could just hear them play. And often the music reflected what was going on, I at the least felt deeply touched by Beck.