Bleach 488 Discussion

[SaitoSpike]

@ Saito Spike, so you base the belief that Ichigo must fight the soul society again, on the belief that it is a requirement to fight the soul king, which is based on the belief that Ichigo must fight said soul king? Interesting.

where did i say that its a must that he fights the soul king? lol, theories are nothing but theories, when it comes to him having SS allies or having to fight them i'm stating either option isnt as unlikely as you think, nothing more

im saying that if it comes down to having to fight the soul king, its likely that he'd at the very least have to go through Yama-ji, those are all 'ifs', and im also saying that if he has to, he would, it doesnt mean he'd be trying to kill them

[OtakuModeEngage]

I don't get, I mean, Aizen wanted to fight the Soul King because he felt boxed in, in a closed world where he was the strongest. But I hardly see how that makes the soul king a bad person, after all, Urahara didn't seem to hold any animosity towards him, so why then, must Ichigo fight him? If anything, being the king of the system that resupplies souls to the earth, I would think he would be a good person. Either way, we have no conclusive evidence to infer either way.

---------- Post added at 10:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 PM ----------

I still stand by my previous statement, however, that Ichigo keeping the title of Substitute Soul Reaper and the Combat pass is like taking a token of loyalty. After all, this is based on Japanese culture, so it is very likely. Even so, if Ichigo did fight the soul society surely there would be a number of soul reapers that defect to his side, yet I don't see this occurrence as being likely to begin with.

---------- Post added at 10:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 PM ----------

where did i say that its a must that he fights the soul king? lol, theories are nothing but theories, when it comes to him having SS allies or having to fight them i'm stating either option isnt as unlikely as you think, nothing more

You didn't, jeeze i'm tiered, starting to see things again, gauh! lol Then what do you think could be a possible spark for such a conflict between Ichigo and the Soul Society? Surely not Neil, as both Rukia and Renji fought at her side.

---------- Post added at 10:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 PM ----------

I don't understand how a arrancar that live to ravage human souls could develop a kind and friendly personality, but certainly she is neither dangerous to the soul society, nor the human world, so why kill her?

[SaitoSpike]

see the way i see it, if Ichigo ends up having to fight the soul king (and yes i realize Aizen's reasons seemed off, and yet when you say Urahara didnt have any animosity towards it/him, at the same time he didnt seem to completely be on opposites of Aizen's beliefs, so why is that?, he didnt exactly come to the soul king's rescue in Aizen's rant)

anyways so if the soul king ends up being an enemy than yes the possibility of Ichigo having both allies and enemies in SS is likely, you can take 2 sides, on Ichigo's side his resolve is at the top of the pyramid, whereas his friends do not have as strong as resolve, and Urahara is unwhiling to interefere in the way things are set (in his view)

on Yama-ji's side he's at the top of his resolve pyramid, whereas his captains and Ltns all have a kinship to Ichigo at this point in some way, even someone as stubborn as Soi Fon could have their resolve to stick to SS laws broken by say Yoruichi and yet you hav Yama-ji who isnt likely to be broken

so in the end that leaves Ichigo vs Yama-ji if it has to happen he'd be the only obstacle left for a sure confrontation

of course thats only IF Ichigo views the soul king as a negative, and if he isnt a negative or there isnt some corruption to it/him then why has he been mentioned so much, in crucial times...i dunno im tired too lol

---------- Post added at 01:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 AM ----------

I don't understand how a arrancar that live to ravage human souls could develop a kind and friendly personality, but certainly she is neither dangerous to the soul society, nor the human world, so why kill her?

this i dunno u lost me on this one....not sure how Nel fits in the convo.....we're both tired

this is your original response:

"I recon 'it just wouldn't make sense for' the soul king to fight the soul society, its a nonsensical argument with no basis or logic."

to which i tried to explain to you that, Ichigo has agreed to be substitue Shinigami in the purpose of the JOB, not in the sense of following their orders without question as a regular SS solider, therefore if said Soul king were to be an enemy, SS is obligated to follow its leader/ruler and his/its laws, and yet since we know of Ichigo's recent influence on SS we realize that other Shinigami would ask questions and potentially end up on Ichigo's side (for various reasons), however this leaves the pillar aka Yamamoto Genryusai, thus leaving us with at the very least a fight between he and Ichigo as the only thing left standing between him and the king's realm (this fight i pointed out does not mean to the death as it is Kurosaki Ichigo we're talking about) which brings me to the two towers of differing resolve....etc

this is how Ichigo could end up having to fight SS in some form.....yet at the same time not fighting the entire SS, since i understand you're considering the relationships he's built with many members....however its Clear that Yama-ji is not everyone else

the whole point :its not as unlikely as you think In my humble opinion

this is all based on 2 opinions we've gotten from 2 individuals who have knowleged of the soul king, Urahara who chooses to stay out of it (and yet not praise it as the only way)

Aizen who sees it as a negative, which means we have a vote against and a vote for no vote

no positive vote...which leads us to: where will Ichigo stand?

(i kno u say there's nobody saying the soul king is not good, but yet when you think about it, its exactly as you said, when it comes to someone like nel, why should she be considered a hollow that has to be healed or whatever they do? despite not being a threat simply for being powered by hollow powers? so there's a question for the soul king no?

i kno what you're saying with Aizen, maybe it was just his ego, but then why hasnt Urahara just been straight up with Ichigo about the soul king, or why so secretive, does Urahara really believe what he said to Aizen?

heh in the end tho it could simply be that the Soul King is an entity that does as Urahara said NEED to exist, i mena for one thing it sounds like 'god' in some sense so who exactly would be a suitable replacement anyways.....which could easily render all my arguments pointless!! , but this is what i love about bleach!

[thornofcarrion]

We have been confirmed that the invaders are 'Quincy'. Not really a big surprise. However, what intrigues me is how they gain so much power? More importantly, the Quincy were supposed to be destroyed by Shinigamis 200 years ago. Being humans, they cannot be the same group, which survived the battle. Unless, something happened to them or they found a source to attain new powers and longer lifespan. Anyone else, think we may have some false details about Quincy. Or missing some important information. I wonder how many Quincy are there in Vandenreich.

No wonder the captain turned out to be a beast. I am hella excited about the upcoming battle. Lets see how will Ichigo do against the captain.

[ca12nag3]

This man is clearly upper tier captain level. Why are people assuming that Ichigo's just going to jump in and stomp him out as if he where nothing?

true, after all Ichigo has to leave a trail of *interesting inpressions* to attract the attention of the king, so this guy will be weak *from the kings perspective* but strong enough to make him think about Ichigo. Also the 3 girls well they might be down for the count but its a excellent moment to show off Orihimes healing skills.

I missed the other 2 btw? What happend to them?

---------- Post added at 01:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 PM ----------

We have been confirmed that the invaders are 'Quincy'. Not really a big surprise. However, what intrigues me is how they gain so much power? More importantly, the Quincy were supposed to be destroyed by Shinigamis 200 years ago. Being humans, they cannot be the same group, which survived the battle. Unless, something happened to them or they found a source to attain new powers and longer lifespan. Anyone else, think we may have some false details about Quincy. Or missing some important information. I wonder how many Quincy are there in Vandenreich.

No wonder the captain turned out to be a beast. I am hella excited about the upcoming battle. Lets see how will Ichigo do against the captain.

Whats even more funny is this.

Quincy were killed off during that 1 war, then Ishida shows up as quincy tought by his grandfather (last quincy ok...) Then his dad shows up being the true heir to the quincy...? K then.

And now we got a entire kingdom of quincy! So...what is it that Ishidas dad inherrited? lol

Its like you got this rare baseball card and all of a sudden all your friends got 1 too -_- bummer.?

[mattiaildivino]

that idiot of Yamamoto,why does he not call for orihime to heal his arm? I hope he will have his ass kicked by buckbeard and others,maybe he will learn he has to be less arrogant!

[espadaboyzz]

that idiot of Yamamoto,why does he not call for orihime to heal his arm? I hope he will have his ass kicked by buckbeard and others,maybe he will learn he has to be less arrogant!

Yeah it's true. I don't understand why his arm not restored like Toshiro & Soifon. Is it because his arm "charred" away and cant be restored? or is about his pride as a captain-commander?

[mattiaildivino]

the latter,probably. anyway, he may fight at his best from now even without his arm,to avenge sasakibe. that would make him use bankai to destroy all of the opponents. if he succeeds in doing that,he will really be worthy.but I doubt he will win on his own,ichigo will end the job

[devstauk]

I cant understand why half of you are saying that this guy isn't a bad ass, your forgetting where he is and what he's against, these are arrancar these guys will not fold for anyone, so why are they starting to against this quincy and his men, yes they might out number them, but surely if these 3 fraccions were smarter they would have been else where and then summoned allon to distract him while they did some epic 3way cero. This guy is a powerhouse for the VR due to the fact that he has been trusted to over run HM, yes he has an army but surely buckbeard is fully aware of the arrancar and VL's capabilities, that being the case if i was him i'd send my 2nd or 3rd in command to over run and recruit.

I don't think ichigo is going to fight him due to it being too soon, and if he doesn't fight him then, IMO that will show he's actually smarter and possibly stronger then most of you give him credit for.... In battle its better to choose your fights carefully then constantly going all out.

But if they do fight or go to fight it will be stopped by someone.

[OtakuModeEngage]

this i dunno u lost me on this one....not sure how Nel fits in the convo.....we're both tired

I was trying to think of a reason that would create a conflict between Ichigo and the soul society, ie, his befriending hollows... because other than that I don't see any reason why he'd fight the soul king, or even the soul society for that matter. I agree that if Ichigo fought the soul king he would likely have to fight the soul society, yet I don't see reason to fight the soul king... not that i discount your theory, just not sure what would bring it about. That's why I requested you to hypothesis possible conflicts and I presented Neil as one.

---------- Post added at 11:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 AM ----------

Whats even more funny is this.

Quincy were killed off during that 1 war, then Ishida shows up as quincy tought by his grandfather (last quincy ok...) Then his dad shows up being the true heir to the quincy...? K then.

And now we got a entire kingdom of quincy! So...what is it that Ishidas dad inherrited? lol

Its like you got this rare baseball card and all of a sudden all your friends got 1 too -_- bummer.?

I think its more along the lines, that they were separated from the VanderReich and thus thought the VanderReich was wiped out, therefore making them the last Quincy. But surprise surprise, they were wrong, the VanderReich survived after all, growing their forces under a tight veil of secrecy.

That being said however, we know Uryu doesn't know the VanderReich exist, but when did his dad ever say he was the last Quincy? It may be just a misconception on Uryu's part and his dad may know about VanderReich or even be a part of it. Honestly, I think Uryu's father is one of the most bad ass Quincy there is, certainly an equal to the higher ups in VanderReich. But then again, we have only seen him display his skills against his son, in which he wiped the floor with him, thus if we establish Uryu at VC level, then his father should be something like a captain. I believe it can be said that Uryu's father received the proper and full Quincy training that he denied to his son, thus its not that Quincy were ever weak, just that our only example up til now was lacking, which, isn't his fault.

---------- Post added at 11:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 AM ----------

Also, stop calling Uryu, Ishida, and Uryu's father (Ryūken), Ishida's father; because Ishida is Uryu's and Ryuken's last name. It doesn't make sense to say Ishida and Ishida's father when they are both named Ishida. I know in Japan unless they are your friend or family member you use their last name, but even when you're talking about people you don't know on first term basis, I would think you would have to use the first name when differentiating between a father and the son, or at least define them by Ishida and Ishida senior? Though I don't see why you'd have a problem with that since everybody uses Ichigo rather than Kurosaki. Please give the characters their deserved respect and stop this confusion.

[unusualangel]

funny how the "tres bestias" always get their ass kicked

---------- Post added at 05:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:22 PM ----------

last time i checked they were made a toast by yama lol

[OtakuModeEngage]

funny how the "tres bestias" always get their ass kicked

---------- Post added at 05:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:22 PM ----------

last time i checked they were made a toast by yama lol

Yeah, lol, but Yamamoto would burn up anyone's ass with no trouble.

[ca12nag3]

I was trying to think of a reason that would create a conflict between Ichigo and the soul society, ie, his befriending hollows... because other than that I don't see any reason why he'd fight the soul king, or even the soul society for that matter. I agree that if Ichigo fought the soul king he would likely have to fight the soul society, yet I don't see reason to fight the soul king... not that i discount your theory, just not sure what would bring it about. That's why I requested you to hypothesis possible conflicts and I presented Neil as one.

---------- Post added at 11:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 AM ----------



I think its more along the lines, that they were separated from the VanderReich and thus thought the VanderReich was wiped out, therefore making them the last Quincy. But surprise surprise, they were wrong, the VanderReich survived after all, growing their forces under a tight veil of secrecy.

That being said however, we know Uryu doesn't know the VanderReich exist, but when did his dad ever say he was the last Quincy? It may be just a misconception on Uryu's part and his dad may know about VanderReich or even be a part of it. Honestly, I think Uryu's father is one of the most bad ass Quincy there is, certainly an equal to the higher ups in VanderReich. But then again, we have only seen him display his skills against his son, in which he wiped the floor with him, thus if we establish Uryu at VC level, then his father should be something like a captain. I believe it can be said that Uryu's father received the proper and full Quincy training that he denied to his son, thus its not that Quincy were ever weak, just that our only example up til now was lacking, which, isn't his fault.

---------- Post added at 11:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 AM ----------

Also, stop calling Uryu, Ishida, and Uryu's father (Ryūken), Ishida's father; because Ishida is Uryu's and Ryuken's last name. It doesn't make sense to say Ishida and Ishida's father when they are both named Ishida. I know in Japan unless they are your friend or family member you use their last name, but even when you're talking about people you don't know on first term basis, I would think you would have to use the first name when differentiating between a father and the son, or at least define them by Ishida and Ishida senior? Though I don't see why you'd have a problem with that since everybody uses Ichigo rather than Kurosaki. Please give the characters their deserved respect and stop this confusion.

stop throwing a fit... its not uncommon to refer to someone by his last name, and call anyone related (father-grandfather etc) as long as i keep to the same subject. So i made no linguistic mistake here. I cant help it if you dont understand this or get confused.

For instance when G.W. Bush was president everyone said president Bush, meaning the current one, and then if mentioning his father said (Bush senior) or (his father). It is not a mistake to do so.

[OtakuModeEngage]

stop throwing a fit... its not uncommon to refer to someone by his last name, and call anyone related (father-grandfather etc) as long as i keep to the same subject. So i made no linguistic mistake here. I cant help it if you dont understand this or get confused.

For instance when G.W. Bush was president everyone said president Bush, meaning the current one, and then if mentioning his father said (Bush senior) or (his father). It is not a mistake to do so.

XD, they might call him Bush Senior, which makes sense, but not Bush's father, because that could mean you're talking about Bush Junior's father (which is Bush Senior), or Bush Senior's father (which is Bush Super Senior, if such a term exist, lol), or any Bush before that; they had fathers too you know. Just the same, 'Ishida's father' is likewise an looped reference. Last names represent a family, not a specific person within that family, when you're talking about one its okay, but when you're comparing a father to a son, its simply better to use first names. And you can help others from getting confused, this is accomplished by using proper terms, common internet courtesy. But this is way off topic, and will likely be deleted. I don't see why you must complain, is it so hard to write Ryuken and Uryu? If anything it is much shorter than writing Ishida and Ishida's father. You write Ichigo's first name why can't you do the same for them?

[kkck]

Yeah it's true. I don't understand why his arm not restored like Toshiro & Soifon. Is it because his arm "charred" away and cant be restored? or is about his pride as a captain-commander?

I think it is a pride thing mostly. Anyways, we don't actually know if soifon's arm has been restored. Her arm was rotten away by barragan. In turn, toshiro's arm was merely mutilated by aizen, it could easily be put back by ordinary kido.