Who manipulated yagura?

[kkck]

^Thats actually a good point lol, didn't think of that. The timeline does not seem like it properly fits to a great degree just based on that. Kishi has messed up the timeline before though (itachi and orochimaru for instance) so it would not be that weird either.... Perhaps he let his hair grow out from the attack? Or perhaps the long haired one actually was madara who died somewhat recently? The real madara seems to have lived far longer than what was initially thought so perhaps the two of them did quite more than what would be evident together. Basically, long haired madara would be the actual madara and short haired one would be tobi.

[mattiaildivino]

nope,madara died shortly after awakening the rinnegan,and nagato already had it when his parents were killed. madara couldn't have been alive when tobi fought minato.

[Hard Core Rikki]

The original body at least. Mizukage's body splitting technique could've been used by Madara to leave a clone preparing his comeback. As we see in chapter 558 splitting halves strength, and in 560 mizukage couldnt use jinton.
Wether Tobi is that clone or not, we dont know so far. That would explain time discrepancies.

[gnut]

nope,madara died shortly after awakening the rinnegan,and nagato already had it when his parents were killed. madara couldn't have been alive when tobi fought minato.

why do you say madara couldn't be alive back then...itachi said that he was madara that he met and his eyes were strong as ever...that means it probably wasn't tobi because tobi that we know has only one sharigan that he shows...especially back then.
why approach itachi with no mask...the strongest of the uchiha back then...then approach/interact with everyone else with a mask on.madara was probably alive back then.who knows how long he lived before awakening the rinnegan...20yrs...50yrs...all he said it was shortly before his death.
tobi still has to explain or madara when and why nagato was choosen...that whole setup smells fishy

[kkck]

I don't think we have any indication of when madara died at all. He lived long enough to know about nagato but that is about it. Based on his edo tensei he wouldn't even have been old when he died either... Nagato was probably chosen simply because he was an uzumaki. If an uchiha can take senju powers to complete rikudo powers then an uzumaki should be more than able to complete rikudo powers by being given uchiha powers.

[mattiaildivino]

why do you say madara couldn't be alive back then...itachi said that he was madara that he met and his eyes were strong as ever...that means it probably wasn't tobi because tobi that we know has only one sharigan that he shows...especially back then.
why approach itachi with no mask...the strongest of the uchiha back then...then approach/interact with everyone else with a mask on.madara was probably alive back then.who knows how long he lived before awakening the rinnegan...20yrs...50yrs...all he said it was shortly before his death.
tobi still has to explain or madara when and why nagato was choosen...that whole setup smells fishy

because madara died after awakening the rinnegan,and we know that it's ulikely that he survived after nagato's birth. I'd say that when nagato was trained by j-man,he was already died. Itachi met Tobi,imo. Yet,itachi didn't know that the tobi we saw in the second part "was" madara,that's why he never thought about him being madara,nor tobi behave as the baddass he is when itachi was still alive.

[Xiraiya]

I've never forgotten this, the fact that Kisame and Itachi met "Madara" who looked/dressed differently to Tobi, but is also suppose to be the same person. So I'm waiting for another twist at some point regarding this matter.

There is also the fact both Oldschool Tobi and "Madara" Wore the same mask, which implies they are both the same person, yet they are not, the whole thing is a bit confusing.

[mattiaildivino]

The original body at least. Mizukage's body splitting technique could've been used by Madara to leave a clone preparing his comeback. As we see in chapter 558 splitting halves strength, and in 560 mizukage couldnt use jinton.
Wether Tobi is that clone or not, we dont know so far. That would explain time discrepancies.

it was the tsuchikage,the 2nd tsuchikage Muu. anyway,tobi's body is made of zetsu goo,as if he weren't an halved man,but some sort of clone. and according to what madara said once come back http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/560/2 ,they seem not to share the same goal. but the most important thing is this: if madara had left a clone back,his soul would still be there,so kabuto wouldn't have been able to summon him.

[gnut]

because madara died after awakening the rinnegan,and we know that it's ulikely that he survived after nagato's birth. I'd say that when nagato was trained by j-man,he was already died. Itachi met Tobi,imo. Yet,itachi didn't know that the tobi we saw in the second part "was" madara,that's why he never thought about him being madara,nor tobi behave as the baddass he is when itachi was still alive.

but why would madara assume nagato was the one behind the ET...he would have to have some kind of knowledge of nagato's strength/ability/personality.to assume that an infant was to grow up and be able to do what nagato was capable of is quite a stretch.

[hyper_megaman]

it was the tsuchikage,the 2nd tsuchikage Muu. anyway,tobi's body is made of zetsu goo,as if he weren't an halved man,but some sort of clone. and according to what madara said once come back http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/560/2 ,they seem not to share the same goal. but the most important thing is this: if madara had left a clone back,his soul would still be there,so kabuto wouldn't have been able to summon him.

regarding the clone thing, that's what i'm thinking too, but it seems kishi isn't exactly the most reliable with continuity.

[mattiaildivino]

but why would madara assume nagato was the one behind the ET...he would have to have some kind of knowledge of nagato's strength/ability/personality.to assume that an infant was to grow up and be able to do what nagato was capable of is quite a stretch.

before dying,madara had a plan with tobi. nagato's rinnegan was madara's rinnegan,which were transplanted into nagato somehow. and the plan was that nagato would resurrect madara with the gedo rinne tensei,that's what tobi told zetsu in volume 48,after nagato's death http://www.mangareader.net/93-458-17...apter-453.html . that's why,when resurrected,madara was talking about nagato who had resurrected him,according to the plan. In fact,madara didn't expect himself to be resurrected through the ET http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/560/2 . I hope I've been clear enough