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Translations: Bleach 600 (2)
Neither good, nor bad
So Chapters 80, 94, 110, 115, 118, and 125 were all terrible because of Raki alone.Quote:
And what about all the chapters with him before the timeskip?
You shouldn't base a chapter on a single character.
Last edited by Claymore1; May 16, 2012 at 08:54 PM.
well they still have to take Raki back to Rabona, hopefully Deneve didn't tell the truth about Clare & Priscilla and let him see for himself.
If anything, he probably had for several years what Teresa and Clare shared for a few weeks at best. "The Impossible Dream" remains one my favorite chapters as it depicts another story of human friendship and bonding.
& about the before the skip thing, let me tell you I loved Clare but hated Raki to the extreme just what a cry baby and he way 14! Yeah if there a 14 years old guy who cries like this!
The chapters you mentioned were all really good except for 80 which was just average but still I believe if Raki hadn't showed up it would've turned better.
Trust me, my hatred to Raki is indescribable.
I will start first by going back to the time of awakening of both Isley and Riful:
Lots argue that Isley is stronger than Riful which is the complete opposite because of these facts:
a- Isley had a better army of ABs from N.2 to the very lowest number who awakened and stayed alive.
b- Riful only had Duff a N.3 with her and nothing else.
c- The Org. was only fresh at the time and barely had any strong warrior so for it to have Isley and Riful as ABs was one of the most dangerous things and life treating as well.
So keeping those in mind lets talk now:
If Isley was stronger than Riful and having a better army why didn't he attack her and then went to destroy the Org. but he didn't even though he only thinks of ruling the lands which is not Riful's way of thinking. He simply didn't attack her and if like any of you said that he had the upper hand in battle this proofs the opposite because what is easier than killing someone weaker than you and having a better army which you can send to annihilate the Org.! Yet he never did but why? (Which I will answer below)
Now lets talk about Riful, just how she thinks? She is smarter than Isley and don't think in the same way that Isley thinks because she thinks about survival and living with Duff (unlike Isley who only thinks of ruling and controlling the everything else). So what happened actually was that Riful had the upper hand but didn't think about ruling the lands she thought of survival which she could do peacefully if Isley was alive because if she attacked Isley and killed him she knew that Org. would have a plan to exterminate the AOs and what better when Riful would be at her weakest state after killing Isley! So for her Isley's survival is her survival! And this was the first thing she thought off when she saw Alicia and Beth!
So even when he had Priss why didn't he attack Riful before attacking Lucilla if he had the upper hand in both fights? Because he was weaker than Riful and knew it and didn't want to use Priss so the Org. won't use a desperate plan which is to attack with Lucilla and its warriors while he is attacking Riful!
Now lets see what Riful thought off when Isley attacked Lucilla:
She knew Isley had the upper hand but actually wasn't sure if he had the upper hand because the difference in powers is close, so she thought he sent 11 ABs to the Org. so whatever the Org. had would've been exhausted and injured (which she never knew would've been close in power to AOs) so she can simply go to the south and kill the one of the verge of death and kill Priss with the aid of Dauf since Priss is just a N.2 (she thought) and go then and destroy what remained of the Org. but Priss ruined her plans and Isley was stupid enough to not attack the Org. because he never thought that they will make something strong enough to kill him which Riful already thought off way before she met Clare when she commented about measuring her Yoki by Alicia (she didn't know it was Alicia but was a warrior who is good at sensing Yoki).
So it all adds up to say that Isley isn't that smart not like Riful because she thought thoroughly but Isley indeed had the wild card Priss but that doesn't change the fact that when he attacked Lucilla and messed the balance he signed his death note which Riful expected along time ago! So yes he controlled the North and South but he lost his life as a result! Plus the AFs didn't start right away it took time to prepare them so he could've attack Riful but for him to not attack her that time means that he realized that the Org. had a warrior strong enough to kill all his 11 ABs and without harming the Org. at all! Which made him think twice about attacking Riful because at that time he realized what she did from the very first moments of their awakening! And about the allience of Riful and Lucilla that was an if they knew what would they had done if it came to Riful and you don't know how Lucilla would react because there isn't much about her personality like Riful and Isley who we know exactly how they will react! Raki and Priss didn't go out the South by Isley's order, they went because Raki wanted to find Clare and the difference is huge. So for him, he had the disadvantage from the very beginning which only if it weren't for Riful and if it was another AO it would've been over along time ago and the three AOs wouldn't have existed to the 78 generation time. It's not because of Isley's powers or brain he manged to survive it was because of Riful's brain they all survived and Isley simply ruined it all when he used Priss and attacked Lucilla.
Little-angel......Isley never miscalculated - his campaign turned out exactly as he intended to be - if you are arguing why he didn't take it as far as he did, and only, at the most, killed Luciella....well, that's a good question; we know he's not the best strategist by any means....but I wouldn't see that as the same thing as miscalculating.
Oh, and I wouldn't say Riful doesn't want to rule the world as well, because she does....you can argue that she didn't start the war, but she sure as hell wasn't complaining, and was bored with eating and sleeping...you can argue that she only wanted to make more friends, but it's sort of funny how she's on the picky side and she just happens to only want friends who could help her war effort (poor Katea didn't qualify)...we can argue her behavior and personality from what we know, since I've done that time and time again...however, if all she wanted was to make friends and live a sort of peaceful life like Isley tried near the end of his life...she had all the time in the world before the war even began to make new friends and do so - the fact that she didn't tells me that, not only was she content just with Dauf's presence, but she didn't even try to recruit during those peaceful times...you can argue that she may have tried otherwise, and maybe she did, not for the sake of fighting but for friendship...but we've never simply seen any besides Dauf. I'm a supporter of her and always have been, but unfortunately, in this case, looking at canon, her actions don't simply make her out to be a peaceful person....and she's not.
I mean really, the idea that her only concern was always survival, is wrong...she said that she, and Luciella for that matter, never had any grudge against Isley (or eachother presumably)...but they would kill him because of a "it's just business" mentality...again, they didn't start the war, but they aren't trying to escape it - they wanna rule just as much as Isley does. It only seemed like Riful's goal, superficially, was always just survival, because he always had the tactical/strategic advantages....he had an army, she had Dauf.....he had a super-weapon, she didn't -- her goals were always maintaining the status quo and evening out the odds, because that was the only thing she could do first....if Raciella became the ideal slightly-weaker loyal AO she was hoping for - you can't believe she wouldn't use her to the fullest as Isley used Priscilla, to conquer the world.
Isley attacked the south because Priscilla wanted to go there....that was her home -- and he had to make her happy...now, did he really care? Undoubtedly not...she was always just his pawn to rule the world, as he admitted during his death (at least, that's how he felt until the end anyway)....but she wanted to go south to find her family and he agreed....superficially, that was the reason - if he went West to destroy Riful, he could have indeed come up with an excuse why he wasn't going South...but perhaps he didn't want to risk losing her trust, even though she was undoubtedly in the palm of her hand - whatever the real explanation was....he went South as he promised her, and made strategies accordingly.
There is alot more to say, yes, but I think you're taking the wrong things and putting them together...
Oh, and disliking entire chapters solely because of a single character (Raki)?
Because he didn't want to. It really is that simple. He only wanted to own the southern lands for priscilla. He didn't want the west or the east.Quote:
Again he had no intention of killing Riful. He was content with the North and South under him. He also liked his life with priscilla (and Raki).Quote:
No, Isley wanted to take priscilla to the south because that used to be her home. Raki just followed because he wanted to learn swordsmanship and look for Clare.Quote:
Isley was one of the most cunning warriors in the manga. He never committed to a fight he couldn't win. The only reason he died is because he went soft. He Pulled a Teresa and developed familial feelings for raki and Priscilla. At his peak, like Jim Raynor in SC2, he always had a card to play.
Shiek I will write a long respond to you but you will have to wait..
Actually he did. It's Isley's personality to take control of everything he can't control and Priss is an example he just wanted to Rule and Priss provided him a way to rule all the lands! So you just take Yagi's words as is and don't know the real meaning of what he wrote because he provided us with personalities and the way of thinking of his characters so you have to understand how Isley thinks and this is how he thinks.Quote:
He had no intention? Really? So why did he send 12 above average ABs? & knowing that it takes less than 5 minutes to kill them all by her? So what kind of delay is that? He just hoped that she would be weak enough like him to have some trouble with them but other than that they served no purpose! Riful knew that from the very beginning that he wanted to rule all the lands but because she was stronger and only wanted survival (not making friendships like Shiek proposed) and living with Duff, she let him be as a threat for the Org. so they won't attack her.Quote:
I was responding to this:Quote:
Not talking about that point.Quote:
This is one of the points I mentioned (but you said it better) why he never attacked Riful, because he could never win against her.Quote:
---------- Post added at 01:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 AM ----------
Last edited by littleangel; May 17, 2012 at 05:38 PM.
He may have used priscilla at first but he actually started to care about her. And Raki too. His personality changed when he started to travel with them. And yes I do understand how Isley thinks. He didn't want to conquer everything. He only started to want more territory when he met priscilla. And he only wanted the southern lands.Quote:
He wanted to get rid of all the ABs he had because he knew that Riful could kill them all easily. And he sent the others to the organization to be killed as well. He came from the north and sent troops to the east and west so that he could have a clear shot to the south. He even stated to Luciella that he didn't like to travel in large groups.Quote:
He could have won against her. Isley was the greatest warrior ever, his AB form represented what he really was. He could alter his arms into any weapon he needed. Riful is definetly strong but I would say that Isley is the strongest AO. It would be close similar to His fight with Luciella, but i still believe that he would win.Quote:
Wait, do you think Raki is evil?Quote:
And No he is a good character personality wise.
Last edited by Claymore1; May 17, 2012 at 06:21 PM.
even riful succumbbed to the contest harrassment of being injuried without rest...so they all have their limits.rest is a necessity to recovery...which the AFs do not allow.
i think isley was driven mainly...by the fact that he did not want to upset/rile/or even lose priscella as his so called ally...knowing he couldn't do a damn thing if she chose to.look at how she treated raki after she caught a whiff of clare/teresa.
priscella was the driving factor in all his decisions once she awakened and because obviously she was the alpha...he was always looking on her and not the reverse(if that means anything).
"ah...that's where you ran off to"...sounds like a subordinate to me...
Last edited by gnut; May 17, 2012 at 06:45 PM.
Not when he started after a very long while he started to feel this as he stated when he died "During the time Raki matured with Priscilla by his side" so matured is different that met! Which is my point. And even at death he didn't deny that he wanted to "Rule EVERYTHING"! which by this I can say indeed he hated groups but loved to rule so yeah he wanted Riful dead but couldn't.Quote:
Having all his weapons are nothing to Riful because we all know how fast Riful is, she can disappear in a second and appear in another so she is on pair with his speed if not faster and all his changing is useless as long as she wraps her tentacles around him which will finish him in a second as well (remember Priss in ES2 or3?) and for Licilla being stronger now lets see.. she has less Yoki but a better technique to fight Riful as I mentioned a very long time ago in AS (probably in 2008 or something) that the only way to defeat Riful is to cut her into small pieces or to eat her! Which what happened to her technically (the poor girl). So I think that Lucilla although she is weaker than Isley and Riful she has a better chance against Riful not because Riful is weaker than Isley but because of her technique.Quote:
I meant that he is good in terms of good and evil not as a good personality (you know some characters good or evil have cool personalities but others simply sucks and Raki is one of them )Quote:
He may have wanted her dead but not enough to kill her himself. And he had the capability to do so. And even if Riful and Isley actually did get into a fight and somehow Riful had the upperhand, priscilla would probably step in and destroy Riful anyways. So if he really, really wanted her dead he would have killed her.Quote:
Isley is covered in armor so he wouldn't be cut up as easily as you think. And he is fast, really fast. he allow himself to wrapped up like that. And with priscillla, well ypu can't compare priscilla to Riful (although i like Riful x100 more than i like priscilla).Quote:
What about his personality sucks? his kindess? His unconditional love? His cheerfulness? His role as Clare's link to humanity in the story? His badass qualities? His protective attributes (like wanting to protect Clare and all the trainees)?Quote:
Because those are all great things which make a great character.
Last edited by Claymore1; May 17, 2012 at 07:01 PM.
Claymore1 is right on all his points....Isley sent troops to both East and West as a distraction to cut through to the South...his whole strategy from the get-go was focusing purely on the South, and not taking over the whole island all at once.
Why not? You're mixing too many things up....yes, we can agree that Isley, like Riful, only wanted to rule and conquer until the end....what does that have to do with why you feel he couldn't?Quote:
Your whole arguement seems to be based on why you feel Isley didn't just take his campaign to the next level and conquer everything so you're trying to come up with ideas, like Riful being stronger, to explain why...
Like your ideas on Riful being stronger - that's taking something different and mixing it in -- superficially, again, Isley went to the South because Priscilla wanted him too....Isley shielded her away and probably didn't even tell him about his war and everything he was doing...his relationship with her was a delicate one and he didn't want to chance anything that would make her kill him, and he knew he didn't have a chance.
So even if he secretly did want to use her to rule the world, which he admitted...he still had to go about it delicately, hence promising her to find her family...he couldn't tell her that he was going to use her as a super-weapon so he could conquer the world, because, well, she may not like that and kill him...he didn't know enough about her to guess how she would react and he didn't want to chance anything.
That's probably why he didn't ask her to kill Riful either...I mean really, she just stood there...and while we could all theorize what was going through her head, she presumably had no idea what was going on or what was happening....if Isley told her to kill Riful, it would only push things further then they need to be -- she would question him later about what just happened, and continue to paint him in a questionable light...this strange woman and her grunt tried to kill him? Why? Who are they and what were they doing?
She undoubtedly found out all the things he was up too eventually...or not....we just don't know -- there are a million and one ways we could spin this (like the idea that Raki and Priscilla left because Isley sent them away....we have no idea about the circumstances that caused them to split up), and this all seems interconnected to other things, like power-levels....which is fine - the thing is though, everything needs to have it's facts straight, otherwise everything just falls apart. I'm not saying any of my words are above that but, right now, their are still many many things that are just speculation, so that needs to be kept in mind.
Last edited by Shiek927; May 17, 2012 at 07:55 PM.