Shin Prince of Tennis Chapter 75, 76 and 77 Discussion/Predictions

[Kaoz]

It is possible that they are playing the first point the entire time unless blindness kick in. I do not think the end score is 6-0, though. But point taken, I guess. But my point still remained. Even after changing Yukimura vs Fuwa to Fuwa getting owned by Yukimura, I still don't see how that equates to Yukimura>Oni.

It doesn't, I was merely pointing it out. And yes, since Fuwa forfeited, the end result equates a 6-0.

Well, it is possible that he gained experiences from facing TnK. After all, he was back then mind screwed and "perhaps" he realized he had to do better?

Also, for TnK, Yukimura DOES try to focus. But Echizen was using TnK the entire time, and that part is at least confirm. But for Sanada, it is rather unconfirmed if he's is using BA for one point or not. But that's a discussion I don't want to get into.

Well, my point only was that he thought he could handle one situation but not the other, nothing more. I'm not really interested in discussing the matter in-depth though.

[Airgrimes]

Something I'd like to mention regarding BA, if you compare Yukimura's reactions when Sanada hits it with his reaction after Echizen uses TnK, there is a clear difference. Against Echizen he's basically mind screwed for five games, against Sanada he shrugs it off and prepares to put a bit more effort into it. Not that this necessarily means anything, but hey, observations.

AS a Yuki fan I noticed this also, which is probably the reason why I dont regard BA as TMnK deep down, but the story is yet to confirm that.
@Fayte, he wasnt really that shitting himself. He said he was gonna get serious, we turned a page and Sanada was sent home. The guy wasnt even going all out, and was having fun with FuuRinKaInZanRai. No other MSer could have fun against that.

It is possible that they are playing the first point the entire time unless blindness kick in. I do not think the end score is 6-0, though. But point taken, I guess. But my point still remained. Even after changing Yukimura vs Fuwa to Fuwa getting owned by Yukimura, I still don't see how that equates to Yukimura>Oni.

Actually, they stop halfway so Fuwa must have been losing points as he stops to say that he underestimated Yukimura.
The end score is likely 6-0, also, look closely, he sweats more on his journey from the Courts than when he was actually playing.

I'm sorry, but this is pretty assumption. You can't just use assumption to assume that player A>player B. You don't know if Yukimura can owned Oni, you just assume so.

Here's some facts on the matter on Oni.

-Oni was beating up Momoshiro with 2 string racket. Completely overwhelming him.


-Oni was completely owning 3rd court reserve player.

-Oni ALSO seemed to be completely owning ex-number 5

Some invalid points here. Nothing tells us No. 5 Kaji Kazena was really awesome.

Since every opponent of the No.s 11-20 was shown besides Mitsuya's opponent, and Takei Toshio was shown without an opponent, mathematically and common sense wise, They must have faced each other.
Inui Sadaharu > Mitsuya Akuto and Mitsuya Akuto > Takei Toshio, as Takei was wrecked and perhaps needed a doctor.
Yukimura Seiichi > Inui Sadaharu. In fact, a lot of MSers would kick his ass.

Now also, do you have evidence to suggest that if a player with the right level of technique had Saiki Kanpatsu no Kiwami, Oni would overcome the prediction? He has shown nothing to tell us he would overcome the prediction.

Also, Yukimura >>> Momoshiro w/out BJK in minutes. 2 strings wouldnt even make a difference after he showed us the return with the bottom of his racket.

@Ken
Against Fuwa his sweat wasnt enough to suggest he was exhausted in any way.
In manga you can sweat from being surprised you owned someone.
Tokugawa owned the punk but he's sweating.

Not a rant btw.

---------- Post added at 12:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 PM ----------

How is it a misunderstanding? If you take the law of technique = power, it is against Konomi-law for Ryoga's technique to NOT at least equal Byoudouin's power due to the fact he returned the shot. I don't understand why anybody WOULDN'T assume this obvious conclusion.

But Byoudouin clearly wasnt going all out so really, we dont know how much power were in his shots as for a shot that shattered a wall, the shot that slapped Tokugawa must have been weaker otherwise he would have had the Hadoukyu/Springtime Danji victim effect. So since we dont know much, I dont know why you would immediately make your ''obvious'' conclusions without enough knowledge on the matter.
Let alone use that to compare against other characters.

[Kaoz]

Tokugawa owned the punk but he's sweating.

To be fair, he was already sweating quite a bit before they even started because of his practice with Oni.
http://www.mangareader.net/343-34448...hapter-14.html

[Fayte]

He said he was gonna get serious, we turned a page and Sanada was sent home. The guy wasnt even going all out, and was having fun with FuuRinKaInZanRai. No other MSer could have fun against that.

No.
http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...-A-Logical-Q-A

[Airgrimes]

To be fair, he was already sweating quite a bit before they even started because of his practice with Oni.
http://www.mangareader.net/343-34448...hapter-14.html

Yes, but at the same time, its a good bit more sweat than when he started.

[LetalHawk]

Yes, but at the same time, its a good bit more sweat than when he started.

One way or another, he didn't stand a chance.

[Airgrimes]

No.
http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...-A-Logical-Q-A

Actually the fact he wasnt stressed or showing his full effort like Sanada was, kinda hints to it, and the fact that he then implies its time to get serious means he wasnt initially serious. We also turn the page to find 3 points instantly went past Sanada.

[Fayte]

Actually the fact he wasnt stressed or showing his full effort like Sanada was, kinda hints to it,

Lol oh man, this argument is so bad. Man Sanada sure was sweating really bad when he was showing his full effort. Also, OBVIOUSLY Sanada would have to have more effort AFTER having all his senses taken away. And OBVIOUSLY Yukimura would need LESS effort after that. I mean seriously. Horio could win against a blind, deaf, and mute Sanada.

[Airgrimes]

Lol oh man, this argument is so bad. Man Sanada sure was sweating really bad when he was showing his full effort. Also, OBVIOUSLY Sanada would have to have more effort AFTER having all his senses taken away. And OBVIOUSLY Yukimura would need LESS effort after that. I mean seriously. Horio could win against a blind, deaf, and mute Sanada.

Not talking about after the yipping...
While rallying, Yukimura isnt doing much, and isnt forced into difficult situations where prior to BA, Sanada knew he was kinda effed as FuuRinKaInZanRai had been made fun of. ''Always with the usual techniques'' by Yukimura.
Which is why he entered yips as he saw it was over. Yukimura hadnt really attacked yet.

Against Ryoma he was going for finishers early on.

[-Ken-]

Actually, they stop halfway so Fuwa must have been losing points as he stops to say that he underestimated Yukimura.
The end score is likely 6-0, also, look closely, he sweats more on his journey from the Courts than when he was actually playing.

Here's the thing. Unless you can point me to any place that show Yukimura was leading 1-0 at the minimum, there is also nothing to support your side. The score could be 6-0,6-1, 6-3, 6-4, 7-5, 7-5 for all you know. There is also nothing that show Fuwa faint before the game is finish. The score "could" be 5-0. But also 5-4.

Here's something, too.

Yukimura is NOT sweating at all before the match start.
http://www.mangareader.net/new-prince-of-tennis/51

Some invalid points here. Nothing tells us No. 5 Kaji Kazena was really awesome.

If you want to go that way, any proof he's not, other than the fact that he get owned by Oni, who dominated every single one of his enemy thus far minus Tokugawa?

Now also, do you have evidence to suggest that if a player with the right level of technique had Saiki Kanpatsu no Kiwami, Oni would overcome the prediction? He has shown nothing to tell us he would overcome the prediction.

I'm seeing Yukimura getting owned by that same prediction that he crap himself before Yips luckily kick in too. http://www.mangahere.com/manga/princ...is/c374/7.html Why is this a point against Oni again?

Also, Yukimura >>> Momoshiro w/out BJK in minutes. 2 strings wouldnt even make a difference after he showed us the return with the bottom of his racket.

Okay, so he owned the same guy Oni owned, too. Does that make them difference?

Against Fuwa his sweat wasnt enough to suggest he was exhausted in any way.
In manga you can sweat from being surprised you owned someone.
Tokugawa owned the punk but he's sweating.

Chaos covered this.

I don't think you get my point. I'll make it clear here. How does Oni prove to be inferior to anyone in anyways when he completely dominated every single one of his opponents? You cannot assume that Oni is inferior to anyone from the fact that he owned his every opponents, except beside top 4 of 1st stringer. Everyone else is a challenger. And assuming that challenger is stronger than the one who hold the throne that hadn't shown to be weaker than anyone is all just assumption.

[Airgrimes]

Here's the thing. Unless you can point me to any place that show Yukimura was leading 1-0 at the minimum, there is also nothing to support your side. The score could be 6-0,6-1, 6-3, 6-4, 7-5, 7-5 for all you know. There is also nothing that show Fuwa faint before the game is finish. The score "could" be 5-0. But also 5-4.

If Fuwa was winning, why would he decide its time to remove his handicap?

Here's something, too.

Yukimura is NOT sweating at all before the match start.
http://www.mangareader.net/new-prince-of-tennis/51

There's NOTHING. 100% Irrelevant to what I said. I said playing. That means present tense. So check during the match.

If you want to go that way, any proof he's not, other than the fact that he get owned by Oni, who dominated every single one of his enemy thus far minus Tokugawa?

Tokugawa wasnt an enemy they were training.
I was letting you know that telling me he beat Kaji means nothing to the argument til we see roughly where Kaji stands. We dont know if Yuki would kick Kaji's ass or not or even vice-versa.

I'm seeing Yukimura getting owned by that same prediction that he crap himself before Yips luckily kick in too. http://www.mangahere.com/manga/princ...is/c374/7.html Why is this a point against Oni again?

Its a point against Oni coz its a point against Yuki. Can you tell me that Oni can deflect SKnK? No. Therefore its an invalid point coz the discussion at hand was comparing the two.

Okay, so he owned the same guy Oni owned, too. Does that make them difference?

It makes your point over Oni invalid. Using Momoshiro as an example doesnt matter between Yuki and Oni since both would end him instantly.
Tooyama Kintaro would be a better example. But BOTH ended him instantly.

Chaos covered this.

Covered a bit. He sweated more after wiping Ryoma.

I don't think you get my point. I'll make it clear here. How does Oni prove to be inferior to anyone in anyways when he completely dominated every single one of his opponents? You cannot assume that Oni is inferior to anyone from the fact that he owned his every opponents, except beside top 4 of 1st stringer. Everyone else is a challenger. And assuming that challenger is stronger than the one who hold the throne that hadn't shown to be weaker than anyone is all just assumption.

Yes ma'am. It was an assumption.

[-Ken-]

If Fuwa was winning, why would he decide its time to remove his handicap?

Because Yukimura is asking him to remove it? He even said "You fool.. You'll regret spitting on kindness of others!"

http://www.mangareader.net/new-prince-of-tennis/52/13

He score right then could be 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 for all we know. Any other point that shows Yukimura is winning beside the very last page that we are not given the score of the match? And yes, I'm aware that after he takes his handicap off, he was surprised and Yukimura got the point off him. But that could be 15-0 for all we know, too.

EDIT:

Actually, this page heavily suggest that Fuwa manage to take a point off Yukimura.

http://www.mangareader.net/new-prince-of-tennis/51/5

http://www.mangareader.net/new-prince-of-tennis/51/6

In page 6, neither player is moving, after Fuwa already hit his ball. He then try to trash talk Yukimura (Although we all know how this turn out). This heavily suggest that a ball already give point to one of the players. However, seeing how Fuwa is talking about Yukimura only being MS level, I highly doubt Fuwa lost that point.

Or perhaps, if you were to suggest it's one of these scenario...?

-Yukimura hit a ball pass Fuwa. But Fuwa didn't notice at all, perhaps already losing his sense of surrounding. But of course, somehow, still know where the ball when the ball is still rally again, And then just try to trash talk Yukimura right after he's the one that lost the point.
-They are still rallying. But for some magical Prince of Tennis reason, the ball stop in midair for however seconds that Fuwa needed to say that line (I don't know the Japanese, so I can't guess). And so that give both players some room to breath and just stand there. So they can take a break while the magical ball is being stop in midair.

That's all I can think off. If you had another possible scenario, I'll actually be interested in hearing it.

Tokugawa wasnt an enemy they were training.
I was letting you know that telling me he beat Kaji means nothing to the argument til we see roughly where Kaji stands. We dont know if Yuki would kick Kaji's ass or not or even vice-versa.


Its a point against Oni coz its a point against Yuki. Can you tell me that Oni can deflect SKnK? No. Therefore its an invalid point coz the discussion at hand was comparing the two.


It makes your point over Oni invalid. Using Momoshiro as an example doesnt matter between Yuki and Oni since both would end him instantly.
Tooyama Kintaro would be a better example. But BOTH ended him instantly.

If you were to read the last part of my post, you'll see that my point and you is the same. that you cannot assume Oni own Yukimura or vice versa. I'll appreciate it if you read the entire post and my conclusion, as in the point I'm making, instead of cutting up bits by bits because you don't agree with some part.

In

"How does Oni prove to be inferior to anyone in anyways when he completely dominated every single one of his opponents? You cannot assume that Oni is inferior to anyone from the fact that he owned his every opponents, except beside top 4 of 1st stringer. Everyone else is a challenger. And assuming that challenger is stronger than the one who hold the throne that hadn't shown to be weaker than anyone is all just assumption."

I didn't say Oni was superior to Yukimura. I'm just saying there's nothing that prove Yukimura is superior to Oni. And you somehow turn that into making it look like I think Oni is superior to Yukimura. And you admit it's just assumption that Yukimura might own Oni, which is my point this whole time.

[LetalHawk]

Until we see Oni play against Yukimura or full serious, I would put both players even.

[Airgrimes]

I didn't say Oni was superior to Yukimura. I'm just saying there's nothing that prove Yukimura is superior to Oni. And you somehow turn that into making it look like I think Oni is superior to Yukimura. And you admit it's just assumption that Yukimura might own Oni, which is my point this whole time.

Our time was wasted.
For some reason on this forum people are quick to attack Yuki. You werent clear as it looked like you were suddenly against him.
Although ive just seen we are on the same page and wasted time lol.

[LetalHawk]

Our time was wasted.
For some reason on this forum people are quick to attack Yuki. You werent clear as it looked like you were suddenly against him.
Although ive just seen we are on the same page and wasted time lol.

Even after all the discussion, I still see Yukimura defeating Oni. Yukimura is the kind of person that you know you're fucked up when he gets serious.