Bakuman by Ohba Tsugumi and Obata Takeshi

[alphabeta]

You know, you all say that the next chapter's gonna be the last, but as far as I can remember, there wasn't a single series which had color pages for its last chapter. Besides, we are bound to see the wedding as well, so unless the next chapter will be 100 pages long, we'll see another couple chapters.

[SHINOBI-03]

You know, you all say that the next chapter's gonna be the last, but as far as I can remember, there wasn't a single series which had color pages for its last chapter.

Dragon Ball?

[alphabeta]

Dragon Ball?

LOL, you think I read Dragon Ball?

I have somewhere around 15+ completed series in my reading list and none of them had a CP for their last chapter. I don't say that it's completly impossible though.

---------- Post added at 01:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:06 AM ----------

An interesting detail, for those who didn't notice. August 8th (2008) was when Bakuman's first chapter was published in WSJ. I see what you did there, Ohba

[Jaymie]

You know, you all say that the next chapter's gonna be the last, but as far as I can remember, there wasn't a single series which had color pages for its last chapter. Besides, we are bound to see the wedding as well, so unless the next chapter will be 100 pages long, we'll see another couple chapters.

Most series do, actually (unless they're canceled). Fullmetal Alchemist had two covers and 12 color pages in the last four chapters alone. If you're talking about WSJ specifically, off the top of my head Eyeshield 21 had color pages for its last chapter.

[suicune123]

This chapter was AMAZING. If Bakuman is ending, I say thank you to Obha and Obata for entertaining me for so long. I stumbled across this manga one day and years later, I can say in confidence it's one of the best manga I have read.

It's likely that the center color would be the kiss!

Also, when Azuki's mom says that 'it's okay if you dont come home tonight after Mashrio takes you' who thinks there was a hidden meaning behind that...if you know what I mean lol. Nice to see them maturing lol

[OtakuModeEngage]

This chapter was AMAZING. If Bakuman is ending, I say thank you to Obha and Obata for entertaining me for so long. I stumbled across this manga one day and years later, I can say in confidence it's one of the best manga I have read.

It's likely that the center color would be the kiss!

Also, when Azuki's mom says that 'it's okay if you dont come home tonight after Mashrio takes you' who thinks there was a hidden meaning behind that...if you know what I mean lol. Nice to see them maturing lol

XD, if not sexual in connotation, at least a permission to spend the night. I don't think its likely that she's allowing them to run away and get married (which could be implied by the 'if you don't come home' part, I think Japanese families are too formal for that, and its not like they are the type of couple to do that in the first place. But regardless of what she meant, It was cute seeing Azuki smile with a slight blush. I think we can all agree that a central color kiss is in order.

---------- Post added at 03:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:05 PM ----------

After selling so many volumes, wrapping up the rivalry with Eiji, and with center color next week, I would absolutely not be surprised if the next chapter is the last. Second last, tops.

With the way time flows in this manga, they could totally have the anime air, a beautiful moment between Mashiro and Azuki, and a short timeskip to the wedding (with most of the characters having cameos) all in one chapter.

I think its better if the next chapter purely focuses on their date; after all, until now they have only been a couple in name, so its time to make the awkward first step. I want to see the entire chapter dedicated to them strengthening their bond while on their date. That being said, it can't be the last chapter, as the wedding would still remain, and I think at least one chapter should dedicated to the wedding.

[Cancel]

I predict 1 more chapter. My guess is it'll go something like this:

- Opens with scenes from Reversi.
- Mashiro getting his composure together, leaves before episode ends.
- Azkui watching with her family, possibly teary as it ends.
- Doorbell rings. Mashiro asks her to come outside. Limo?
- Mashiro invites her to come with him. She (obviously) accepts.
- Reminiscing, congratulating eachother over dinner. Longest part of chapter.
- "Lets go for a walk", or other subversive way of getting to the house.
- BTW, I bought a House.
- Proposes.
- Kiss.
- End.

[OtakuModeEngage]

I predict 1 more chapter. My guess is it'll go something like this:

- Opens with scenes from Reversi.
- Mashiro getting his composure together, leaves before episode ends.
- Azkui watching with her family, possibly teary as it ends.
- Doorbell rings. Mashiro asks her to come outside. Limo?
- Mashiro invites her to come with him. She (obviously) accepts.
- Reminiscing, congratulating eachother over dinner. Longest part of chapter.
- "Lets go for a walk", or other subversive way of getting to the house.
- BTW, I bought a House.
- Proposes.
- Kiss.
- End.

You suggest that they skip the wedding entirely when the whole manga has been about them doing their best to get married?

[sakura_fai]

The chapter was soooo draagggeeedd ouuuttt...XD But it builds up tension. Aw man, I can't wait! ^_^ This'll be epic. I hope crazy fans won't ruin the moment though. -_-

Can't wait for next week! XD
And no, they're definitely going to have the wedding, and probably end at Mashiro and Azuki's kiss...but damn, how many years has it been since they started their manga and seiyuu career? 7? 8? 10?

[FrostyMouse]

I thought the pacing was okay actually. Of course weeks past in this one chapter alone, but the only thing that was of importance was just volume sales. At least it wasn't too boring or linear. We got to see what the others were upto. Eiji seems to be getting ready to have ZG animated by the same studio doing Reversi. Aoki and Hiramaru seem to also be getting ready for their wedding. Iwase and Shizuka are both working on their next pieces. No idea what Takahama is smiling about...

Now, what I do have a problem with, is this sudden "We have beaten Eiji" turn of events. I dunno about you guys, but it felt anti-climatic. The way it was shown was too easy. I remember me, and Saladesu, and Frostymouse(?), amongst others were thinking "well, what counts as surpassing Eiji?!". And today's answer is: having more volume sales as well as ranked #1 at the same time. On the flipside, you could say well what did you have in mind. I dunno, I was expecting something more...deep.

Back to pacing, since the transition upto the wedding was so fast, I'm expecting (or more like wanting) the wedding to be spread across a few chapters (3-4). The less rushed it feels, the more enjoyable the ending will be (for me, anyway). I hope we'll get some powerful scenes in the next chapter since it's the proposal for heaven's sake. Speaking of which, I thought the ending for the chapter would be more powerful if Mashiro said those words infront of his uncle's grave rather than just his journal (I think that's his journal....).

Definitely, Knifeshade. We talked about this for so long, and it just doesn't seem conclusive. They had a higher ranking and more volume sales, and that's it? There definitely needed to be more. What I was most disappointed about with the whole arc was that in comparison to before when they used to focus on chapters and the actual stories, we barely got anything for Reversi and Zombie Gun. It seemed that after the whole buildup with PCP and being told that they couldn't have on anime on it, yet they still continued to fight, such as with Nanamine, the whole Reversi vs Zombie Gun thing was just too short and too simple. There was more of a fight with +Natural.

I know that Ohba didn't want to stretch Bakuman out, and he made that message clear multiple times throughout Bakuman, but the ending just doesn't seem conclusive enough after all of this. Eiji just seemed to go down meekly. What happened to the Eiji who was #1 for 20 straight weeks and even overcame AM's best effort with PCP? That Eiji seems to have vanished.

For me, I had always thought, and expected, that "surpassing Eiji" would be some grand event where after battling for a while, they eventually blow Eiji out of the water in terms of rankings and sales, as well as using techniques to show their superiority and other stuff. Remember when after AM changed the art after the first few chapters of PCP, Eiji did a chapter without any words at all in order to convey a message to AM, as well as show that he could compete no matter what they did? In fact, the voters loved that chapter of Crow.

[SHINOBI-03]

175: A discussion about the end of Reversi and if there are plans beyond that
176: Miho starts recording her lines and the anime starts
177: The wedding
178: After the wedding + conclusion

I guess my predictions were wrong. They discussed about the sales, talked a bit about keeping work as a time, and Miho has already recorded her lines.

[protomelvin]

I may be wrong on this, but rereading the chapter, the focus of beating Eiji in tankoban sales wasn't so much to do with beating Eiji itself, but to demonstrate how strong Takagi's feelings were for making everything perfect for Mashiro and Azuki when they got married. You'll notice that when Takagi finds out they surpassed Eiji in tankoban sales, his thoughts weren't that they finally overcame "that" Eiji, but that Mashiro can marry Azuki as the no. 1 mangaka in JUMP. I think the reason it wasn't made into that grand an event, because they didn't want to direct focus from Takagi's strong desire to make things perfect for Mashiro and Azuki, and it highlights to Mashiro how much other people have helped him in his dreami, which ties into what most of the chapter is about, Mashiro thinking about all the people along the way. In this way, I think that the chapter worked just fine, and I don't think we really need more focus on rivalry between Ashirogi Muto and Eiji, anyways. They're ETERNAL rivals. Even if they win now, their fight with Eiji never ends, which I think was perfectly demonstrated when they bump into Eiji in the editorial office and Eiji says he aims to sell 3 million while Ashirogi Muto tells him their next piece will go even further than that.

Anyways, that is how I interpreted the chapter after a second read.

[OtakuModeEngage]

Definitely, Knifeshade. We talked about this for so long, and it just doesn't seem conclusive. They had a higher ranking and more volume sales, and that's it? There definitely needed to be more. What I was most disappointed about with the whole arc was that in comparison to before when they used to focus on chapters and the actual stories, we barely got anything for Reversi and Zombie Gun. It seemed that after the whole buildup with PCP and being told that they couldn't have on anime on it, yet they still continued to fight, such as with Nanamine, the whole Reversi vs Zombie Gun thing was just too short and too simple. There was more of a fight with +Natural.

I know that Ohba didn't want to stretch Bakuman out, and he made that message clear multiple times throughout Bakuman, but the ending just doesn't seem conclusive enough after all of this. Eiji just seemed to go down meekly. What happened to the Eiji who was #1 for 20 straight weeks and even overcame AM's best effort with PCP? That Eiji seems to have vanished.

For me, I had always thought, and expected, that "surpassing Eiji" would be some grand event where after battling for a while, they eventually blow Eiji out of the water in terms of rankings and sales, as well as using techniques to show their superiority and other stuff. Remember when after AM changed the art after the first few chapters of PCP, Eiji did a chapter without any words at all in order to convey a message to AM, as well as show that he could compete no matter what they did? In fact, the voters loved that chapter of Crow.

Okay, its not that Eiji has gotten weaker, its that Ashigori Muto has gotten stronger, has reached his level; they've been writing for so long, chasing after Eiji and every piece they do is better than their previous ones. PCP was almost at his level, but had one major flaw, no mainstream elements; that's why they competed with him so grueling and still couldn't beat him. Honestly, I don't see how they could ever beat him if they weren't at least on his level, and if Eiji is dominating them with 20 straight victories like in the past, then they aren't on his level and have no chance at beating him. But you can't say Eiji wasn't putting up a damn good fight either, you can't say his level of talent and skill went down, because he was trading blows for blows with Ashigori, since they were dominating first and second place with no competition. We've seen Eiji depressed in this arc, we've seen him putting all his energy into writing, we've seen him, through his editor and writing, fight in the editorial department to get the anime first; these are things Ashigori has always done because Eiji was above them, but they are both doing now because they are at the same level. As for how Eiji pulled a stunt in the past by doing a chapter with no words, that was to show Ashigori their arc was lacking. He does a similar stunt in Zombie Gun, killing off his antagonist to show Ashigori their story is lacking. But when they acknowledged that flaw and used it to their advantage, they over took him.

---------- Post added at 10:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 AM ----------

I may be wrong on this, but rereading the chapter, the focus of beating Eiji in tankoban sales wasn't so much to do with beating Eiji itself, but to demonstrate how strong Takagi's feelings were for making everything perfect for Mashiro and Azuki when they got married. You'll notice that when Takagi finds out they surpassed Eiji in tankoban sales, his thoughts weren't that they finally overcame "that" Eiji, but that Mashiro can marry Azuki as the no. 1 mangaka in JUMP. I think the reason it wasn't made into that grand an event, because they didn't want to direct focus from Takagi's strong desire to make things perfect for Mashiro and Azuki, and it highlights to Mashiro how much other people have helped him in his dreami, which ties into what most of the chapter is about, Mashiro thinking about all the people along the way. In this way, I think that the chapter worked just fine, and I don't think we really need more focus on rivalry between Ashirogi Muto and Eiji, anyways. They're ETERNAL rivals. Even if they win now, their fight with Eiji never ends, which I think was perfectly demonstrated when they bump into Eiji in the editorial office and Eiji says he aims to sell 3 million while Ashirogi Muto tells him their next piece will go even further than that.

Anyways, that is how I interpreted the chapter after a second read.

I completely agree, everyone is complaining that O&O just 'threw in on the side' the victory, not spending enough time on the battle or bringing the victory deeper meaning, but let me say this: Bakuman is about Mashiro and Tagaki working to get an anime that Azuki can act lead heroin in, and then marry Mashiro; it has been so since chapter 1. Beating Eiji has always been a 'side goal' and while important to Tagkai and Mashiro, never their main focus; so while I don't agree with your claims that it was 'thrown in on the side', what's the problem with doing just that? Whats wrong with focusing on the main goal and throwing in the extra as extra? Certainly many manga have done just that, and not with the quality depth and detail that Bakuman has displayed. Eiji has always been the main antagonist to their main goal, always standing in the way of their dream; but just the same, he has always been their strongest ally, teaching them through rivalry and competition, the things required to accomplish their dream: it is for those two reasons that the side goal of beating Eiji was developed by O&O. Eiji is no more than the biggest reoccurring problem within Bakuman, a vital means to drive on the plot, NOT the end aim. There is just as little a need for Mashiro and Tagaki to focus on a side goal while their main dream is being accomplished, as there is for O&O to focus on the antagonist after the climax has been met. Even so, they have spent a considerable amount of time in this last chapter alone addressing just that (Beating Eiji), which is a necessarily requirement in 'warping up' the story, but not one that requires complete focus.

[Knifeshade]

It's not about being goals or the focus or aims, OME, that's not why I disliked it. What I was disappointed about is the lack of resolve, the weight and gravity of "surpassing Eiji", and how it was down played. Eiji has been written to be a genius and almost godlike, but he's also been shown to back that up on numerous occasions. So when you "finally surpass Eiji" you expect something deeper to show how you "deserved/earned the win". I would've been a bit happier if there was a bit more screentime on wrapping the last few chapters of Reversi, it'd make this feel more authentic.

And plus, on a side note, you keep saying how Ashirogi are stronger, on the same level as Eiji now, etc etc etc. BUT that's all just been implied to be honest. All I remember them doing is "we'll write it all in one go!". Whether their story is superior or the art is better, that's just implied right now.

If I had to give an analogy, it'd be like having one tiny panel of the wedding with a little square epilogue, when you were expecting something more for such a noteworthy turning point, like maybe a whole chapter dedicated to it [wedding].

But I do like Protomelvin's analysis of the chapter so I guess I'll go with that. Makes it easier to stomach anyway.

[OtakuModeEngage]

It's not about being goals or the focus or aims, OME, that's not why I disliked it. What I was disappointed about is the lack of resolve, the weight and gravity of "surpassing Eiji", and how it was down played. Eiji has been written to be a genius and almost godlike, but he's also been shown to back that up on numerous occasions. So when you "finally surpass Eiji" you expect something deeper to show how you "deserved/earned the win". I would've been a bit happier if there was a bit more screentime on wrapping the last few chapters of Reversi, it'd make this feel more authentic.

And plus, on a side note, you keep saying how Ashirogi are stronger, on the same level as Eiji now, etc etc etc. BUT that's all just been implied to be honest. All I remember them doing is "we'll write it all in one go!". Whether their story is superior or the art is better, that's just implied right now.

If I had to give an analogy, it'd be like having one tiny panel of the wedding with a little square epilogue, when you were expecting something more for such a noteworthy turning point, like maybe a whole chapter dedicated to it [wedding].

But I do like Protomelvin's analysis of the chapter so I guess I'll go with that. Makes it less easier to stomach anyway.

It is more than implied, throughout Bakuman: we can judge by the polls and volume sales how they are improving in customers view, because PCP monopolize 3rd and 4th place and Reversi 1st and 2nd place; we can judge from other mangaka's facial expressions, actions, and commentary that they are improving; we can tell by the art and story fragments from each of their mangas that they are improving; and we can tell from how Mashiro and Tagaki describe their manga, that they are improving. But let me list some improvements over the course of Bakuman:

Money and Intelligence: established their talent for non-mainstream, serious dark stories.

Between Money and Intelligence and Detective trap: they tried mainstream battle manga, and learned that it was no good.

Detective Trap; prior to this developing this mystery manga, nothing they wrote was good enough to be serialized, and they worked hard with Hattori until their art and story were up to publishing standards.

Tanto; while not up to the quality of Detective Trap, they were able to learn about their weakness in comedy, and by working to their limits within that weakness, they managed to increase Mashiro's artistic styles and Tagaki's writing abilities.

Period of Manga between Tanto and PCP: They learned of serious comedy, deepened their connection to non-mainstream, and experimented in various forms of mainstream.

PCP; the combination Serious Comedy and their non-mainstream style, they were able to hold third and fourth place, 90% of the time directly under Eiji, but they could not compete with him because they had no mainstream elements in their story. Eiji taught Mashiro that his art was lacking by drawing chapters without words, and Ashigori adopted the + Natural style of creating manga.

Reversi: using everything they've learned up to this point, they created the Mainstream/non-mainstream story, and for the first time they could compete with Eiji. They learned about their weakness and overcame it by focusing on quality over length, thus surpassing Eiji.

---------- Post added at 08:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 PM ----------

Its not like they weren't using all their skills and pushing their abilities to the edge, that's why we saw 1s place bounce back and forth between Zombie Gun and Reversi, and why there was an ocean between 2nd and 3rd place. O&O just neglected to show us the scenes of Ashigori and Eiji working hard and to inform of us the techniques they imployed; this being because the focus was on Reversi's anime, but none-the-less we can be assured by the poll results, that such a battle did go down. If your only problem is that they did not display enough details of that battle, then I will reiterate that the focus was on Reversi getting an anime and Azuki obtaining the part, which is the driving factor of Bakuman. They couldn't hold the Battle with Eiji after Azuki got the part, because Reversi would be over then, requiring them to write a new manga, which would be odd timing as Bakuman would be wrapping up by then; and as battles with Eiji serve as rising action, it would be counter productive, making Bakuman end on an odd note.

---------- Post added at 08:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:05 PM ----------

Regardless, I have very much enjoyed the last five chapters.

---------- Post added at 08:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 PM ----------

As for doing something deep/amazing to show they deserved/earned the victory, lets put it this way: one of the 'Godly' stunts Eiji used to back up his 'godliness', was when he held first place for 20 weeks in a row to end Crow uncontested. This is absolutely brilliant because it is so impossible to do.

However, what is more amazing is that Ashigori not only copied this stunt, but left a gaping hole between first and 2nd place, ending as the completely uncontested #1; Eiji may have kept first place till the end, but he did not leave such a gap, nor receive such a response from readers/mangaka on the last chapter. Eiji may have had an amazing victory, but Ashigori had a slaughter.