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Thread: Bakuman by Ohba Tsugumi and Obata Takeshi

  1. #976
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member suicune123's Avatar
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    Re: Bakuman 175 Discussion / 176 Predictions

    I understand where Knifeshafe is coming from. Maybe we could have has this chapter just devoted to Mashiro and Takagi celebrating their win over Eiji. But, I don't think O&O wanted to drag out the end. The rivalry between Ashriogi Muto and Eiji is a never-ending one, so a win now is only a win and from the chapter we see how it will be like in the future in terms of the fierce competition that will ensue with the scene in the editorial department. After chapters and chapters devoted to how they can improve their manga and polls and rankings, I'm happy to see that in the conclusion of this story, that takes a step back, and the romance between Auzki and Mashiro is the 'main attraction'. It's the perfect way to end the story. Here's hoping for a prologue chapter!

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  3. #977
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Bakuman 175 Discussion / 176 Predictions

    That's the limit on how Ohba/Obata can portray Ashirogi Muto in beating Eiji (Oda). Simply because they don't have authority or face to portray Eiji (Oda) got beaten up so badly or by a large margin. I even got annoyed when Ashirogi Muto replied to Eiji's "3 million copies" with their next series will sell 3.5 million >< lol really? for a second they look like a troll to me when i read that and made me think if reversi is death note, then that next series is bakuman??? bakuman only sells around 300k copies, lol oh maybe their talking about their next series after bakuman.

    Anyway, I look forward on what Saiko will do, hope we'll be amused and surprised. By the way, Nakai still was not shown, did he slimmed down and currently on track of being a super mangaka? I don't think so. He's like Miura, he's just like that. LOL
    Last edited by sekida; April 15, 2012 at 11:22 AM.

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  5. #978
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member OtakuModeEngage's Avatar
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    Re: Bakuman 175 Discussion / 176 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by sekida View Post
    That's the limit on how Ohba/Obata can portray Ashirogi Muto in beating Eiji (Oda). Simply because they don't have authority or face to portray Eiji (Oda) got beaten up so badly or by a large margin. I even got annoyed when Ashirogi Muto replied to Eiji's "3 million copies" with their next series will sell 3.5 million >< lol really? for a second they look like a troll to me when i read that and made me think if reversi is death note, then that next series is bakuman??? bakuman only sells around 300k copies, lol oh maybe their talking about their next series after bakuman.

    Anyway, I look forward on what Saiko will do, hope we'll be amused and surprised. By the way, Nakai still was not shown, did he slimmed down and currently on track of being a super mangaka? I don't think so. He's like Miura, he's just like that. LOL
    I almost agree, but in a sense, I think Ashirogi Muto is supposed to represent O&O at their peak potential; like how Reversi doesn't represent Death Note, but how Death Note should have been. In my opinion, Reversi is portrayed to be the vast superior of Death Note, especially when the ending is brought into consideration. But just because Ashigori is Obata and Obha and Reversi is Death Note, doesn't mean that all Ashigori's pieces have to be representations; after all, what was PCP, Shady Detective Trap, and god forbid, Tanto? You have to remember there are such differences between Bakuman and real life, such as the fact that O&O have only worked on two pieces together, whereas Ashigori has been together since the beginning. If it is as I say and Ashirogi is O&O at their peak potential, then it would not be surprising that their declaration of 3.5 be valid.

    At any rate, I agree with Suicune123, they are Eternal Rivals, so it won't make much sense for the kind of 'deep victory' that every ones looking for, I find the characteristic 'I'll beat you next time," "We won't lose," to be the perfect victory to a battle that can't really end, its enough closer for me.

  6. #979
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Bakuman 175 Discussion / 176 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by sekida View Post
    That's the limit on how Ohba/Obata can portray Ashirogi Muto in beating Eiji (Oda). Simply because they don't have authority or face to portray Eiji (Oda) got beaten up so badly or by a large margin. I even got annoyed when Ashirogi Muto replied to Eiji's "3 million copies" with their next series will sell 3.5 million >< lol really? for a second they look like a troll to me when i read that and made me think if reversi is death note, then that next series is bakuman??? bakuman only sells around 300k copies, lol oh maybe their talking about their next series after bakuman.

    Anyway, I look forward on what Saiko will do, hope we'll be amused and surprised. By the way, Nakai still was not shown, did he slimmed down and currently on track of being a super mangaka? I don't think so. He's like Miura, he's just like that. LOL
    Ashirogi is Ashirogi and Eiji is Eiji. No one is Oda. Not even a character that could've potentially been based on Oda is actually Oda. They're all characters, and they're different from real life mangaka, and they weren't intended to be carbon copies. In fact, aside from One Piece's popularity and a few coincidences that can be argued, Oda and Eiji aren't even similar.
    When you think of Ashirogi as representing Ohba and Obata, and Eiji as representing Oda, then pretty much anything they do is a dick move where they say they're better than the mangaka of the best selling manga of all time, which is more than a bit overkill. They're just characters, they've earned their right to be represented on their own at this point, we don't need to compare them to real authors.

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  8. #980
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member OtakuModeEngage's Avatar
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    Re: Bakuman 175 Discussion / 176 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by blade5468 View Post
    Ashirogi is Ashirogi and Eiji is Eiji. No one is Oda. Not even a character that could've potentially been based on Oda is actually Oda. They're all characters, and they're different from real life mangaka, and they weren't intended to be carbon copies. In fact, aside from One Piece's popularity and a few coincidences that can be argued, Oda and Eiji aren't even similar.
    When you think of Ashirogi as representing Ohba and Obata, and Eiji as representing Oda, then pretty much anything they do is a dick move where they say they're better than the mangaka of the best selling manga of all time, which is more than a bit overkill. They're just characters, they've earned their right to be represented on their own at this point, we don't need to compare them to real authors.
    I think its funny how people rant about Eiji being Oda, when Oda is also in Bakuman... sure, we don't see him, but the editors talk about him and One Piece is depicted on volumes. There are certainly meta elements used to represent the values of O&O, such as Eiji ending Crow at its peak, an indirect statement to Oda, suggesting that it would be cool if he did the same, and once again implying the reoccurring theme that Manga should not be dragged out. Notice, Eiji ended Crow, Oda did not end One Piece; they are not the same person.

  9. #981
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Knifeshade's Avatar
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    Re: Bakuman 175 Discussion / 176 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by OtakuModeEngage View Post
    It is more than implied, throughout Bakuman: we can judge by the polls and volume sales how they are improving in customers view, because PCP monopolize 3rd and 4th place and Reversi 1st and 2nd place; we can judge from other mangaka's facial expressions, actions, and commentary that they are improving; we can tell by the art and story fragments from each of their mangas that they are improving; and we can tell from how Mashiro and Tagaki describe their manga, that they are improving. But let me list some improvements over the course of Bakuman:

    Money and Intelligence: established their talent for non-mainstream, serious dark stories.

    Between Money and Intelligence and Detective trap: they tried mainstream battle manga, and learned that it was no good.

    Detective Trap; prior to this developing this mystery manga, nothing they wrote was good enough to be serialized, and they worked hard with Hattori until their art and story were up to publishing standards.

    Tanto; while not up to the quality of Detective Trap, they were able to learn about their weakness in comedy, and by working to their limits within that weakness, they managed to increase Mashiro's artistic styles and Tagaki's writing abilities.

    Period of Manga between Tanto and PCP: They learned of serious comedy, deepened their connection to non-mainstream, and experimented in various forms of mainstream.

    PCP; the combination Serious Comedy and their non-mainstream style, they were able to hold third and fourth place, 90% of the time directly under Eiji, but they could not compete with him because they had no mainstream elements in their story. Eiji taught Mashiro that his art was lacking by drawing chapters without words, and Ashigori adopted the + Natural style of creating manga.

    Reversi: using everything they've learned up to this point, they created the Mainstream/non-mainstream story, and for the first time they could compete with Eiji. They learned about their weakness and overcame it by focusing on quality over length, thus surpassing Eiji.

    ---------- Post added at 08:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 PM ----------

    Its not like they weren't using all their skills and pushing their abilities to the edge, that's why we saw 1s place bounce back and forth between Zombie Gun and Reversi, and why there was an ocean between 2nd and 3rd place. O&O just neglected to show us the scenes of Ashigori and Eiji working hard and to inform of us the techniques they imployed; this being because the focus was on Reversi's anime, but none-the-less we can be assured by the poll results, that such a battle did go down. If your only problem is that they did not display enough details of that battle, then I will reiterate that the focus was on Reversi getting an anime and Azuki obtaining the part, which is the driving factor of Bakuman. They couldn't hold the Battle with Eiji after Azuki got the part, because Reversi would be over then, requiring them to write a new manga, which would be odd timing as Bakuman would be wrapping up by then; and as battles with Eiji serve as rising action, it would be counter productive, making Bakuman end on an odd note.

    ---------- Post added at 08:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:05 PM ----------

    Regardless, I have very much enjoyed the last five chapters.

    ---------- Post added at 08:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 PM ----------

    As for doing something deep/amazing to show they deserved/earned the victory, lets put it this way: one of the 'Godly' stunts Eiji used to back up his 'godliness', was when he held first place for 20 weeks in a row to end Crow uncontested. This is absolutely brilliant because it is so impossible to do.

    However, what is more amazing is that Ashigori not only copied this stunt, but left a gaping hole between first and 2nd place, ending as the completely uncontested #1; Eiji may have kept first place till the end, but he did not leave such a gap, nor receive such a response from readers/mangaka on the last chapter. Eiji may have had an amazing victory, but Ashigori had a slaughter.
    So you're saying that you're fine with them showing the wedding in one tiny panel (showing them walking down the aisle) along with a 4-line epilogue box (saying Mashiro and Azuki get married and they live happily ever after blah blah lah) at the end, right? : D

    Think about that thought for a sec.
    -

  10. #982
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member OtakuModeEngage's Avatar
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    Re: Bakuman 175 Discussion / 176 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Knifeshade View Post
    So you're saying that you're fine with them showing the wedding in one tiny panel (showing them walking down the aisle) along with a 4-line epilogue box (saying Mashiro and Azuki get married and they live happily ever after blah blah lah) at the end, right? : D

    Think about that thought for a sec.
    NO! XD, I think I understand your feelings now, lol. But the manga from Chapter one has always been heading towards the wedding, that was their aspiring main dream, ultimate goal; the battle with Eiji has just been the rocky road to get there. But I don't think that battle is over, or ever will be; if it was, then they wouldn't be eternal rivals. And that is why O&O let the scuttle end so subtly, with no depth or epic surpassing of Eiji; so that Eiji would still be able to say, 'I'll beat you next time' with strength, confidence, and pride. That is to say, O&O didn't make a 'big deal' about the conclusion of the fight, because it was no 'big deal', Ashigori got this one, now its Eiji's turn.

    Sort of like two sword masters paring up; the battle could end in a second, with the slightest mistake or weakness being the deciding factor, or last for eternity(this being limited by the moment they both pass out from fatigue) as they are equally skilled. I believe up til now Eiji was always the better swordsmen, but now they are on par.

    ---------- Post added at 03:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:06 AM ----------

    Well, I doubt that makes it anymore acceptable for you, since you've been looking forward to the battle's conclusion for so long; but that's just it, the battle hasn't concluded, and never will; what you have been waiting for, won't come. I guess that's why I didn't understand your complaint in the first place, you were disgruntled that the battle ended so poorly, while I firmly believed it had yet to end in the first place, and therefore left nothing to be fizzled about. Though I agree, that had this was the ending of their battle, it would have been disappointing.
    Last edited by OtakuModeEngage; April 16, 2012 at 05:36 AM.

  11. #983
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member suicune123's Avatar
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    Green Grin Re: Bakuman 175 Discussion / 176 Predictions

    Sometimes a little goes a long way. Yes, they weren't overjoyed in celebration about their win over Eiji, but they have matured a LOT since the start of the manga, and perhaps 18-19 pages isn't enough for O&O to show how excited they were (and besides what would they have done anyway apart from celebrating, maybe having a drink?). I thought that part where Mashiro thanks Kaya for everything was way more effective and more important (it also reminded that it was Kaya who thought of the name Ashirogi Muto!). And anyway, Mashiro is stressing about his meet up with Azuki! How would you feel if you got a wedding on the way?

    Also, I don't think their are any real life to manga comparisons in terms of Oda being Eiji. Eiji was the archetype of the anti-hero, the rival who was also pushes the protagonists to be better.

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  13. #984
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member OtakuModeEngage's Avatar
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    Re: Bakuman 175 Discussion / 176 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by suicune123 View Post
    I thought that part where Mashiro thanks Kaya for everything was way more effective and more important (it also reminded that it was Kaya who thought of the name Ashirogi Muto!).
    That scene, as well as the one with Eiji at the office where he said, "Zombie Gun will make 3 million, it was cool an in sent the message that Eiji wasn't done just yet, the fight would go on; I think that's a great conclusion to a battle without an end. Those two scenes, and the one with Kaya's mom, made the chapter for me.

  14. #985
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member TemplateR's Avatar
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    Re: Bakuman 175 Discussion / 176 Predictions

    This week is the End of Bakuman:


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  16. #986
    Reviewer 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity alphabeta's Avatar
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    Re: Bakuman 175 Discussion / 176 Predictions



    I... I... I don't even know what to say.

    Literally speechless. Give me some time to realize this fact.


    And why the hell is the last panel of Bakuman a shot of someone standing with his back to us? At least show me some faces...

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member SHINOBI-03's Avatar
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    Re: Bakuman 175 Discussion / 176 Predictions

    UGH!!! alphabeta, WHAT IS THAT AVATAR?! !

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  19. #988
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member OtakuModeEngage's Avatar
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    Re: Bakuman 175 Discussion / 176 Predictions

    NOOOOO! they're gonna cram it all in one chapter??? This better be a damn big chapter!!!
    Somehow I have this ominous feeling...
    Give me a date, a first kiss, and a wedding; that's all I ask for, come on! I believe in you!!!

    Okay, so I was furious and depressed when they fucked up MSN's ending, but it was okay, I got over it. But if they fail on Bakuman, my favorite manga; world, shattered!
    Last edited by OtakuModeEngage; April 18, 2012 at 03:53 AM.

  20. #989
    MH's Best Artist 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! Googlez_kun's Avatar
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    Re: Bakuman 175 Discussion / 176 Predictions

    I wonder why you guys are surprised.Everyone saw it coming miles away,especially because some Japanese news announced it two weeks ago.

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    Re: Bakuman 175 Discussion / 176 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by SHINOBI-03 View Post
    UGH!!! alphabeta, WHAT IS THAT AVATAR?! !



    Somewhere hidden in the darkest depth of MH is the Fun Forum. In there, a cruel and heartless game exists, where the looser have to wear punishment sets.

    Get my logic?

    ---------- Post added at 12:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:49 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Googlez_kun View Post
    I wonder why you guys are surprised.Everyone saw it coming miles away,especially because some Japanese news announced it two weeks ago.
    Did you read my predictions from our last JR? I explained how it'd be totally pointless to end the story at this moment. Besides, who do you think watches japanese news around here.

    BTW, nice avatar

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