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Thread: Could the Supernovas > Shichibukai???

  1. #31
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Could the Supernovas > Shichibukai???

    I don't think people of certain caliber would actually fall to anyones conqueror's haki. I sincerely doubt there is anyone out there who would have a shred of a chance of taking the likes of crocodile or pre time skip luffy with conqueror's haki alone. Heck, even ussop or nami did not fall down from rayleigh's haki... Fear is not what causes people to faint from conqueror's haki either for that matter.

  2. #32
    MH Senpai MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Uriel's Avatar
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    Re: Could the Supernovas > Shichibukai???

    Well, to give him a point we haven't reached yet the knowledge of Haoshoku fully. It's known that can make fade enemies but...There must be something else to it. To be such a rare power, something else must be able to do and cause.
    The Sky is pouring
    The wind is blowing
    The sea looks red,
    a surging sea of flames
    looks like the entrance to hell
    'Perfect', the captain said.

  3. #33
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Could the Supernovas > Shichibukai???

    I maintain that the whole thing is mostly symbolic and it does not have actual battle applications against people with actual power. Since the strength of the conqueror's haki relies on character and strength of will, it simply serves to pinpoint people with particularly strong wills. I mean, we have seen it in use plenty of times to say the least by now and at most it has taken out fodder or scared a few critters unconscious. If it had any battle applications we would have seen it already at least against hodi considering luffy did not pull back his punches against the guy. In that particular regard, it would be perhaps better to not show it at all as it basically screams "I am going to be awesome in the future" to people who care. Heck, luffy became a target for the marines mostly after he used the conquerors haki... I guess it is true all the details about it have yet to be revealed though (probably, it is also perfectly possible Rayleigh's explanation is just about as far as oda will ever go on the haki subject considering it covered a decent bit on the topic).

  4. #34
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Could the Supernovas > Shichibukai???

    jaws and marco commented shank's haki,stating that to bear it you must be ready to fight him. usop and nami didn't fall because they didn't fear rayleigh,but in a fight that should have made them fall down. although i think nami's intelligence would allow her to stand still,since she is not like usop: her will is strong(remember when she faced kuma)

  5. #35
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Could the Supernovas > Shichibukai???

    I don't think marco and jozu ever said that... if I recall it was simply either a mention of not being determined or strong enough to bear it. I don't think fear alone should make a difference here for that matter. Remember the other times luffy used his conqueror's haki? He used it during the kuja fight and during the marineford war. Why would the kuja or marines and pirates that fell down be afraid of him? Heck, the kuja clearly believed luffy was not worth a damn and he even knocked out mr 3 who was at the time luffy's ally. Rayleigh went as far as complementing them for taking the full blow of it and not fainting. Its not like they would not be afraid of the dark king either. I don't think fear has anything to do with this, it is merely willpower and strength that make a difference.

  6. #36
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Could the Supernovas > Shichibukai???

    you are a bit right anyway,that's the page I was talking about: http://www.mangareader.net/103-2541-...apter-434.html . hakushouku requires determination to be faced.

  7. #37
    SQUEE x 9000 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: Could the Supernovas > Shichibukai???

    Quote Originally Posted by mattiaildivino View Post
    jaws and marco commented shank's haki,stating that to bear it you must be ready to fight him. usop and nami didn't fall because they didn't fear rayleigh,but in a fight that should have made them fall down. although i think nami's intelligence would allow her to stand still,since she is not like usop: her will is strong(remember when she faced kuma)
    Usop and Nami did not fall because Luffy did not fall. Laws crew did not fall because Law did not fall, Kid's crew stood because Kid continued to stand. The Strawhats drawing strength from Luffy has been a theme running through the entire series. As long as Luffy is determined, so are they. It does not matter whether that means standing up against Rayleigh's haki or fighting on after Gecko Moria stole their shadows. Thus it does not matter how strong or weak the individual Strawhats are, as long as Luffy is captain they do not believe anyone can stop them. Kid and Law's crew must feel the same, for not a single one fell to Rayliegh's haki.

    There would have been no difference, had it been a fight: Rayliegh's haki would not have any more effect on Nami, Usop, or any of the Strawhats. As long as Luffy was ready to fight they would have stood their ground. Fear has nothing to do with it either. Usop is afraid of everything, he certainly would have been afraid of Rayliegh's haki in the auction house. But Usop always overcomes his fear through determination to fight on. That is why he did not fall. That is why none of the Strawhats, Heart Pirates, or Kid Pirates fell.
    Last edited by Kaiten; April 13, 2012 at 06:59 PM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member eefrit's Avatar
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    Re: Could the Supernovas > Shichibukai???

    Usopp and Nami did not fall because Rayleigh didn't want them to fall. Rayleigh sent out a wave of Haki that was meant to knock out everyone in the auction house but the slaves and the Strawhats. Kidd and most of Law's crew withstood the burst of Haki because they were strong enough to. He didn't intend for them to withstand it, that's why he commended them. He explained to Luffy that one must learn to control his Conqueror's Haki less they knock out innocents.

    After the time-skip, Luffy has displayed finesse in his own showing of Haki, against the fake Strawhats in a large crowd at Shaboady and against the 50,000 fishman on Fishman Island. Both times he avoided knocking civilians. So it can't be based in fear, only in determination. That's why it's called King's Disposition. Their determination and spirit is so great, that those who don't have enough determination and spirit of their own can't withstand their great presence.

  9. #39
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Could the Supernovas > Shichibukai???

    http://www.mangareader.net/103-2611-...apter-504.html

    I don't think rayleigh actually picked his targets back there. I think he shot it in all directions and the strawhats simply took it all.

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    SQUEE x 9000 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: Could the Supernovas > Shichibukai???

    Hard to say. He had already recognized Hachi and Luffy (by way of Rogers Strawhat). Still, to say that he selectively excluded the Strawhats seems to be reading more into the scene than actually happened. To me it seemed more like he used his haki on everyone and it happened that the Strawhats, Kid Pirates, and Heart Pirates were left standing. http://www.mangahere.com/manga/one_p...2/c503/18.html

    Back on topic I must say that I do not understand the topic
    Haven't we already seen that the neither the Shichibukai nor Supernova are uniform in power? They do not fight collectively as a crew, so aggregate power is ultimately meaningless. What then becomes the basis for comparison? How do we judge as a group if aggregate power is meaningless and power levels vary from individual to individual within each organization?
    Last edited by Kaiten; April 14, 2012 at 12:34 PM.

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  13. #41
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Could the Supernovas > Shichibukai???

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    http://www.mangareader.net/103-2611-...apter-504.html

    I don't think rayleigh actually picked his targets back there. I think he shot it in all directions and the strawhats simply took it all.
    or maybe it can't be focused on anyone,unlike yamamoto's reiatsu against kyoraku's vice-captain.
    forgive me kaiten,but I don't think that they stayed there because of their captains. in fact,the child in law's crew did lose consciousness. the other answer should be that they are all strong,and that they are determined-adult enough to stand it.

  14. #42
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member hoeru's Avatar
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    Re: Could the Supernovas > Shichibukai???

    LOL... Shachi said that he was about to lose consciousness - so he didn't lose it. And later Rayleigh says on Ruskaina that Luffy needs to be careful so he won't overpower even the ones close to him. So it's clear that Rayleigh did nothing but STOP his Haki once he saw that all he wanted to knock out were down. There's nothing to mystify about whether or not Rayleigh selected people or not. He didn't and then was "surprised" that Law's and Kid's crew were able to withstand the Haoushoku burst to take out the ones with a weak will power and no determinition. Just like when he took out Disco who's in case of determinition weaker than Caimie and his own men.

    About the Shichibukai vs. Supernova debate. Before timeskip, I think Kid, Hawkins, Law, Bege and X Drake would have been able to beat Moriah, and Sir Crocodile. All of them appeared smart enough to figure out their weaknesses. And additionally, Moriah would have had a hard time to rebuild their DF power for Oars.

    As for the other Shichibukai. I think only Law would have some sort of a chance against Jinbe and Hancock. But Kuma, and Doflamingo? No. Even though the bounties don't count only for power, they are somehow reflecting a character being dangerous. And without going too much into detail: Jinbe would blast off the other supernovas with his Fishman Karate. Hancock would petrify anything the supernovae would throw at her and then take all of them down.

    But now... I don't think there's any reliable prediction to make after the timeskip. And even with that poster, we can't know if they actually are still alive.

  15. #43
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Could the Supernovas > Shichibukai???

    To be completely honest I never particularly thought much of hancock's petrification. Granted, it is a killer move however I really cannot see it working in the heat of battle. The ability is based on thoughts of lust and whatnot and the manga has conclusively proven that it plainly does not work in people who can resist those thoughts either through pain(momomga) or self control(luffy... kinda...). Even in the momonga situation we have to consider the guy did not go there to fight, he went to talk to her which is not exactly a situation which can altogether avoid impure thoughts so to speak. I really cannot imagine a experienced warrior falling to the petrification thingy in the heat of battle in this regard, it makes no sense to me. Granted it seems she has arrows which have a similar effect however they were only used against not exceptional people, odds are a more powerful fighters would be able to avoid or counter them (maybe haki, maybe an ability, possibilities are endless depending on the fighter). I don't see why flamingo or kuma would be more dangerous than her or even jinbe for that matter either. Why would they be so much stronger? Even ivankov was able to fight on par with kumar for a while and if we take his word kuma even feared ivankov a bit at some point. Kuma's ability seems hax because we have seen him fight against powerless fodder for the most part such as the strawhats or random dudes at the war, the bit with ivankov proves that people with actual power won't simply be repelled and whatnot. Hancock has complete mastery of haki, ranged techniques, she seems to be at least a proficient martial artist and she has yet to even show what she can do with salome, to me it would make sense that she was actually stronger than flamingo or kuma.

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  17. #44
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member hoeru's Avatar
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    Re: Could the Supernovas > Shichibukai???

    Only Mero Mero Mellow needs Hancock's attraction. Pistol Kiss works without (on Luffy). Perfume Femur works without (Pacifista OHKO). Slave Arrow works without (Cannon Balls don't have emotions). All are DF based, and I don't see how the pre-timeskip Supernovae would defend against them - aside from Law and Hawkins maybe - nor do I see how they'd be able to attack her - aside from Law.

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