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View Poll Results: Mouri/Oishi vs Marui/Kite

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  • Mouri/Oishi

    2 40.00%
  • Marui/Kite

    3 60.00%
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Thread: Mouri/Oishi vs Marui/Kite

  1. #1
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    Mouri/Oishi vs Marui/Kite

    Current stats:
    Mouri - SPE 5, POW 4, STA 4, MEN 6, TEC 5
    Oishi - SPE 2, POW 2, STA 4, MEN 3, TEC 4
    Marui - SPE 4, POW 2, STA 3, MEN 3, TEC 5
    Kite - SPE 4, POW 3, STA 4, MEN 4, TEC 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    In fact, I would like to hear a breakdown on why Oishi/Mouri > Marui/Kite. Unless you're assuming Mouri can single-handedly win the match, since if Tohno struggled against WC then Mouri surely will. And Oishi can't cope with Ohabu with or without Marui hiding its path.
    You've got it the wrong way around. For breaking WC, Moon Volley should suffice since it's a highly accurate lob. Not only that, unlike the lobs Kimijima hit it's a topspin one (I believe Kimijima's were backspin lobs? Can't double check right now), making Ohabu more difficult to hit against it.

    As for defense, Kimijima implied that he would be able to defeat the combo if he took off his 60% limiter and Mouri is only one point of Mental worse than Kimijima, their other stats are the same. Given that Mouri managed to return a ZSS, I'm sure he'd be able to get Ohabu after a couple tries, especially with Oishi supporting him.

    After that, Marui/Kite will have to go back to the Shukuchihou/Myougi combination which can be broken as shown by Kimijima.

    Please also read this post for context.
    Last edited by Kaoz; August 17, 2014 at 02:24 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Mouri/Oishi vs Marui/Kite

    I see, Kimijima's arm position did imply they were backspin lobs.

    But my problem is with Mouri at the net defeating Marui, once Kite uses Ohabu with Marui blocking the path, surely the ball can only be for the player who is playing at the back, (Oishi). I see Kite eating Oishi alive with his array of techniques.
    Whilst Mouri is indeed ridiculously balanced as a player, I do still think that Oishi and his OT isn't as big a threat as people make it out to be. Let's be real, if Niou wasn't Synchro'd with the Mutsu bros, then Oishi's OT would have been as effective as pinch on the arm to the Mutsu bros in Synchro. It wasn't the major factor to the victory.
    It was Oishi's idea to Synchro with the bros that won them that game. Oishi can't say to Mouri "Hey man, just Synchro with the opponent!" this time. He's too much of a weak link outside of Synchro against Marui/Kite who are super attack + super defensive.

  3. #3
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Philia's Avatar
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    Re: Mouri/Oishi vs Marui/Kite

    The only way for Oishi/Mouri is to synchro. And since this is very unlikely, I think Marui/Kite wins it quite easily.

  4. #4
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member ChinkyCandie's Avatar
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    Re: Mouri/Oishi vs Marui/Kite

    I think Mouri/Oishi could win since they play doubles quite well. It all depends on whether Mori and Oishi can work well together. That's all. We've seen Kite/Marui work well together. However, I think Kite/Marui would win unless Mori shows us a special technique. He's the HS with the most potential to grow since he's still a 1st year.

  5. #5
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    Re: Mouri/Oishi vs Marui/Kite

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    But my problem is with Mouri at the net defeating Marui, once Kite uses Ohabu with Marui blocking the path, surely the ball can only be for the player who is playing at the back, (Oishi). I see Kite eating Oishi alive with his array of techniques.
    Why are you so fixated on that formation? Remember that the original Oishi Territory had Oishi in the front and Kikumaru defending the back and I don't see why this wouldn't work here. I honestly think Big Bang would give them more trouble than Ohabu since Oishi has so little power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Whilst Mouri is indeed ridiculously balanced as a player, I do still think that Oishi and his OT isn't as big a threat as people make it out to be. Let's be real, if Niou wasn't Synchro'd with the Mutsu bros, then Oishi's OT would have been as effective as pinch on the arm to the Mutsu bros in Synchro. It wasn't the major factor to the victory.
    I'm honestly not sure about this. Like, it depends on what you think Niou Synchroing with the twins actually did for them. While Niou knew what the twins were thinking, he and Oishi weren't in Synchro with each other any longer, so Oishi didn't know. In that sense, all Niou probably used it for was defense and in that case OT scoring against a HSer pair in Synchro might've actually been the case.

    I think the idea of OT is that as long as his partner can defend against the opponents' attack, Oishi will find a way to break through.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    It was Oishi's idea to Synchro with the bros that won them that game. Oishi can't say to Mouri "Hey man, just Synchro with the opponent!" this time. He's too much of a weak link outside of Synchro against Marui/Kite who are super attack + super defensive.
    Yeah, obviously he couldn't. But even if we were talking about Oishi/Niou here, I don't think he'd tell Niou to Synchro with one of Marui/Kite. For one it probably wouldn't work since Marui and Kite don't know anything about Synchro (and I'm not even sure if Kite has the potential to Synchro with anyone, Marui might be able to with Jackal though) and also by just synchroing with one of them, it would be an incomplete defense.

    I think the reason why it worked so well vs the twins was that Niou could Synchro with both of them simultaneously - if he hadn't been able to do that, it wouldn't have been nearly as effective.

    So even if it was Oishi/Niou, they'd have to come up with some different strategy.

  6. #6
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    Re: Mouri/Oishi vs Marui/Kite

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    Why are you so fixated on that formation? Remember that the original Oishi Territory had Oishi in the front and Kikumaru defending the back and I don't see why this wouldn't work here. I honestly think Big Bang would give them more trouble than Ohabu since Oishi has so little power.
    So, you think Oishi at the front doing netplay VS Marui would be beneficial for Oishi/Mouri?
    That's suicide. Oishi can't cope with Marui at the net.
    That's a good point too, Oishi isn't hitting back any of Kite's serves but then again, Kite's Big Bang shouldn't be able to wreck Oishi's wrists since he doesn't have Tanishi's power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    I'm honestly not sure about this. Like, it depends on what you think Niou Synchroing with the twins actually did for them. While Niou knew what the twins were thinking, he and Oishi weren't in Synchro with each other any longer, so Oishi didn't know. In that sense, all Niou probably used it for was defense and in that case OT scoring against a HSer pair in Synchro might've actually been the case.

    I think the idea of OT is that as long as his partner can defend against the opponents' attack, Oishi will find a way to break through.
    I've always been under the impression that OT allowed a scenario to break through too, however Oishi like all characters in the series has his limits. Unfortunately Konomi hasn't really given him a major stat boost or at least put him into the playing field of the boys who at least have decent strength I'm talking the guys with 17 as base totals.
    With a mere 2 in Power and a 4 in Tech whilst everybody else in this encounter has a 5 in Tech, I don't see how if Mouri is on the defensive and Oishi is a the net, how Oishi will be able to consistently defeat Marui at the net and then Kite behind him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    Yeah, obviously he couldn't. But even if we were talking about Oishi/Niou here, I don't think he'd tell Niou to Synchro with one of Marui/Kite. For one it probably wouldn't work since Marui and Kite don't know anything about Synchro (and I'm not even sure if Kite has the potential to Synchro with anyone, Marui might be able to with Jackal though) and also by just synchroing with one of them, it would be an incomplete defense.

    I think the reason why it worked so well vs the twins was that Niou could Synchro with both of them simultaneously - if he hadn't been able to do that, it wouldn't have been nearly as effective.

    So even if it was Oishi/Niou, they'd have to come up with some different strategy.
    This is still my point. Let's look at the Oishi/Niou VS Mutsu/Mutsu match again. Besides Niou Synchro-ing with the Mutsu bros, realistically, what chance did Oishi/Niou have of winning. Since they also implied that their match was nearing an end prior to Niou synchro-ing with the Mutsu bros.
    In a scenario of Oishi/Niou its okay cause they can Synchro together as Kikumaru!Niou and probably edge out Marui/Kite. But with Mouri, I see OT working for a while but once the opponent singles out Oishi I am yet to see Oishi figure out a solution to win a serious match with purely his tennis skill and not plot armored Synchro.

    Against Niou/Yagyuu OT was not enough to overcome them fully although it very awesome. Against Shishido/Ootori it was not enough either.

    I recognize I wasn't giving Oishi enough credit in that match, he definitely played a significant role in winning, but I believe the win truly stemmed from Niou being able to tap into all the thoughts of the Mutsu bros. I mean, that can be the only solution since had Niou not been in Synchro with them then let's face it, they would've been thrashed no?

  7. #7
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    Re: Mouri/Oishi vs Marui/Kite

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    So, you think Oishi at the front doing netplay VS Marui would be beneficial for Oishi/Mouri?
    That's suicide. Oishi can't cope with Marui at the net.
    I think it would be beneficial for them in that it would allow them to break through the WC/Ohabu combo. Oishi isn't a better netplayer than Marui, that's for sure. However, I don't think he's completely helpless either. For instance you'll remember that he fended off the Jimmies targeted attacks all by himself. Of course Marui is a lot better than the Jimmies, but he's also only one person as opposed to two, so I don't think Oishi would get destroyed in normal volleys and he could certainly return WC shots.

    That said, I'd be very surprised if he could return Myougi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    With a mere 2 in Power and a 4 in Tech whilst everybody else in this encounter has a 5 in Tech, I don't see how if Mouri is on the defensive and Oishi is a the net, how Oishi will be able to consistently defeat Marui at the net and then Kite behind him.
    I think this one once again begs the question of how you really defeat Kite at all without blasting through his gut or knocking his racket away. Like, so far the only other way we've seen it forcing him off balance and then hitting to the other side, but I'm not sure how that's supposed to work without tricking Marui.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Against Niou/Yagyuu OT was not enough to overcome them fully although it very awesome. Against Shishido/Ootori it was not enough either.
    That's not quite right though, is it? Niou/Yagyuu overcame OT because Kikumaru wasn't able to deal with Yagyuu's Laser Beam, hence a defensive issue. I don't remember them actually returning Oishi's finishing shots. Against Shishido/Ootori, wasn't OT only used in one game which GP won? Going off memory here, can't check right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    I recognize I wasn't giving Oishi enough credit in that match, he definitely played a significant role in winning, but I believe the win truly stemmed from Niou being able to tap into all the thoughts of the Mutsu bros. I mean, that can be the only solution since had Niou not been in Synchro with them then let's face it, they would've been thrashed no?
    Yes, they would've been. However, you also just said that in a Niou/Oishi scenario in this match-up, they'd be able to edge Marui/Kite out with Synchro, and if Niou/Oishi can "edge them out", the twins would probably destroy them. If you agree with this, Oishi/some other guy theoretically losing badly to the twins isn't particularly indicative of how they'd do here.

  8. #8
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    Re: Mouri/Oishi vs Marui/Kite

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    I think it would be beneficial for them in that it would allow them to break through the WC/Ohabu combo. Oishi isn't a better netplayer than Marui, that's for sure. However, I don't think he's completely helpless either. For instance you'll remember that he fended off the Jimmies targeted attacks all by himself. Of course Marui is a lot better than the Jimmies, but he's also only one person as opposed to two, so I don't think Oishi would get destroyed in normal volleys and he could certainly return WC shots.

    That said, I'd be very surprised if he could return Myougi.
    Yeah, I'll hold back on the Oishi hate in this regard. Whilst I think Marui will win at the net it won't be as bad as I initially made it out to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    I think this one once again begs the question of how you really defeat Kite at all without blasting through his gut or knocking his racket away. Like, so far the only other way we've seen it forcing him off balance and then hitting to the other side, but I'm not sure how that's supposed to work without tricking Marui.
    Exactly. I have to say, whilst I believe Mouri can hit winners past Kite, I feel like I can almost confirm that Oishi cannot.
    Hirakoba kinda emphasised that Shukuchiho kinda destroys lobs. Kite will consistently return Moon Volley.

    At this stage I see Mouri handling things from the back but this doesn't rule Kite out from being an asshole mid-match and aiming shots AT Oishi. He clearly didn't learn his lesson against Tezuka and I think it proves he is a natural asshole and I see him seeking out Oishi in all honesty just for victory. I don't think we can rule out this likely possibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    That's not quite right though, is it? Niou/Yagyuu overcame OT because Kikumaru wasn't able to deal with Yagyuu's Laser Beam, hence a defensive issue. I don't remember them actually returning Oishi's finishing shots. Against Shishido/Ootori, wasn't OT only used in one game which GP won? Going off memory here, can't check right now.
    That's a good point. And yeah I checked, OT won that game in the end. But I believe it stopped being used because Oishi had reached his own limit or something like that. He said "my body won't move the way I imagine it" or something.
    Mouri on the other hand is a world above Kikumaru so I guess in this scenario Oishi/Mouri would be victors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    Yes, they would've been. However, you also just said that in a Niou/Oishi scenario in this match-up, they'd be able to edge Marui/Kite out with Synchro, and if Niou/Oishi can "edge them out", the twins would probably destroy them. If you agree with this, Oishi/some other guy theoretically losing badly to the twins isn't particularly indicative of how they'd do here.
    Yeah I my argument wasn't strong enough there. When I re-think things though, Niou/Oishi with Synchro could probably soundly defeat Marui/Kite since Synchro has no openings or something like that. At the same time, Oishi/Random Mid Tier Player against Mutsu bros would be slaughtered worse than Niou/Random Mid Tier Player if you get what I mean?
    Niou was more instrumental in that win imho.
    I'm of the belief that OT wasn't such a big deal and that it was Niou being in sync and reading all the intentions of the Mutsu bros that won them the match.

  9. #9
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    Re: Mouri/Oishi vs Marui/Kite

    I believe I don't have a rebuttal for the rest, so I'll concede those points. Let me know if you did want me to respond to any specific part of your post though.

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