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Thread: Gaara vs. Sasuke

  1. #31
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Zehahaha's Avatar
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    Re: Gaara vs. Sasuke

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    It doesn't have to be explained if it's been shown. It's been stated multiple times in the actual manga that Amaterasu burns away whatever the user focuses on. No one made this up. It's just the fact that it's been shown that gives it more validity. If there's anything at all you can muster to prove otherwise, then please show us. Till then we're all relying on Kishimoto instead.



    How the hell can they not be compared when the databook flat out says the exact words that Chidori Eisou is not as strong as Chidori? It's been compared already for me, lol. Unless you mean Enton and Raiton can't be compared. If that's the case you're still mistaken, since every element is compared to eachother in the databook already. Why do you think Fuuton is described as the best for slashing techniques? Because it's being directly compared to every other element. Ditto for elemental weaknesses.
    Did I say it doesn't burn ?
    Stay consistent for fuck's sake, in one post you say he can raise the temperature, now you say he can burn it in order to avoid answering the dilemma. Any Katon can burn shit, Amaterasu too, but I've never ever heard a single implications about the " temperature " of Amaterasu and if any Uchiha can control the temperature.
    Of course a flame would burn, but you guys keep saying that he can roast Gaara inside his Sand defense by saying that Amaterasu is hot, and I pointed that the bullshit of the Databook isn't true, and that in the manga there was no such talk about such a thing, and that the examples you've bought are nothing more than examples of inconsistency in the part of Kishi, and now you say " Amaterasu can burn anything " as an answer to this ? You completely gave an off answer.


    Quote Quote:
    How the hell can they not be compared when the databook flat out says the exact words that Chidori Eisou is not as strong as Chidori? It's been compared already for me, lol. Unless you mean Enton and Raiton can't be compared. If that's the case you're still mistaken, since every element is compared to eachother in the databook already. Why do you think Fuuton is described as the best for slashing techniques? Because it's being directly compared to every other element. Ditto for elemental weaknesses.
    Again, idgaf about what the Databook says because it is full of nonsense (aka Sandaime being the strongest Hokage, Amaterasu as hot as the sun...)
    Chidori Eisou is like a sword, it is not a PIERCING technique, so you cannot compare it with a technique made for PIERCING.

  2. #32
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    Re: Gaara vs. Sasuke

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    lol what ?
    Do you know what the Blaze release is ? (aka Enton)
    It is the ability to manipulate and shape the black flames of Amaterasu... There's no such a thing as Enton Amaterasu and Real Amaterasu...
    Isn't that exactly what he said?

    Enton is like me picking up a burning stick from some camp fire and throwing it at you -> I'am sure you can dodge that.

    Regular Amaterasu however is like your face suddenly being ignited for no apparent reason -> I dont think you are going to dodge that...
    Last edited by LnDRash; April 11, 2012 at 09:02 PM.
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  4. #33
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Gaara vs. Sasuke

    Quote Quote:
    Did I say it doesn't burn ?
    ...what?

    Quote Quote:
    Stay consistent for fuck's sake, in one post you say he can raise the temperature, now you say he can burn it in order to avoid answering the dilemma. Any Katon can burn shit, Amaterasu too, but I've never ever heard a single implications about the " temperature " of Amaterasu and if any Uchiha can control the temperature.
    You said that I can't prove that Amaterasu burns things faster when it's focused on by the user who casts it. I showed it does. No amount of irrate flaming is gonna change the fact that you were proven wrong. A shitty argument, no matter how hard you yell, remains a shitty argument. You also claimed there's no difference from Enton and Amaterasu. I proved their is, where as one is pure Amaterasu flames from birth, while the other is Amaterasu's flames shaped with shape manipulation and then used in different forms, changing the properties of the attack.

    And though I didn't bring it up earlier, the greatest proof that Amaterasu is not the same as Enton is the fact that in the databook Amaterasu is classified as a katon. Not an enton. It's the strongest katon.

    So yeah. I have absolutely no problem being consistent, seeing as though I'm consistently proving you wrong, lmao.


    Quote Quote:
    Of course a flame would burn, but you guys keep saying that he can roast Gaara inside his Sand defense by saying that Amaterasu is hot, and I pointed that the bullshit of the Databook isn't true, and that in the manga there was no such talk about such a thing, and that the examples you've bought are nothing more than examples of inconsistency in the part of Kishi, and now you say " Amaterasu can burn anything " as an answer to this ? You completely gave an off answer.
    You didn't prove a thing. Not a damn one. And in the VERY CHAPTER you read this week we learn that Amaterasu's super high temperature is important, since it was high enough to distort Muki Tensei. Even if you didn't read this chapter, you have to accept that the rising temperature from Itachi's Amaterasu back when Sasuke first used Kirin was proof enough that Amaterasu's temperature is amazingly hot since despite it being on the ground in the surrounding forest it managed to rise the heat high enough in the clouds to boost Kirin. You want consistency?

    Amaterasu ALWAYS burns it's target completely when focused, as shown in the manga, whether you're gonna acknowledge it or not.
    We have four instances where Amaterasu's temperature is shown to be greater than the average katon (eating a katon, burning underwater, negating Muki Tensei, fueling Kirin)

    You don't have to believe it burns as hot as the sun. You don't even have to believe that it's the hottest substance in the manga (you'd be wrong though). You DO have to accept that the temperature is a danger to Gaara if he just sits their inside of his sand though, as Sasuke's already proven that his Amaterasu effects the environment based on it's heat.

    ---------- Post added at 05:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:02 AM ----------

    Quote Quote:
    Again, idgaf about what the Databook says because it is full of nonsense (aka Sandaime being the strongest Hokage, Amaterasu as hot as the sun...)
    Chidori Eisou is like a sword, it is not a PIERCING technique, so you cannot compare it with a technique made for PIERCING.
    In otherwords, you're strategy for dealing with evidence you can't refute is pretending the shit doesn't exist? Yeah, there are instances that don't make sense in the databook from what's shown and what's done in the manga (no way in hell Minato's stronger than Hashirama). But you prove these by SHOWING the instances in the manga that refute the databook. You haven't the slightest chance of building an argument against Amaterasu's heat outside of flatout ignoring what's been said and shown, which makes your complaints seem like straight up sour grapes.

    And about Chidori Eisou, I repeat: you've seen the damn thing chop things multiple times. You have no basis for claiming it can't chop outside of "it's called a spear".

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  6. #34
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    Re: Gaara vs. Sasuke

    @Zehahaha

    Quote Quote:
    Do you believe that bullshit in the Databook ?
    Might as well believe that Sandaime is the strongest Hokage since it was mentioned in the databook too...
    As long as it does NOT contradict the manga yes i do. Belive it or not those are made by Kishi so they are RELEVANT evidence. But of course manga is nr.1. What you now whant to discard all the databooks because some stuff is wrong or exagerated? Now considering Amaterasu was able to burn trough something that is fireproofed and swalow fire itself i do belive we are close to a valid example in the databook. Now if you have better evidence to contradict the manga then this do provide it.

    Quote Quote:
    lol what ?
    Do you know what the Blaze release is ? (aka Enton)
    It is the ability to manipulate and shape the black flames of Amaterasu... There's no such a thing as Enton Amaterasu and Real Amaterasu...
    I used some made up terms. Normal Amaterasu opens in point blank of your body. Whatever Sasuke used there is Amaterasu moved from a distance and not focused one that Gaara could defened before it got anywhere close to his body. As i said read the manga more carefully. To me it looks like i stated the same thing you had but only diferently and used some made up terms.

    @Uchiha_Blood

    Quote Quote:
    That was back in part 1, and that Gaara was at his weakest.
    Against Kimimaro he had a major power up, in part 2 he had another major power up, in the War arc he got an ultra power up.
    Irrelevant. There is NO upgrade to the durability of his sand that is just.. SAND or at least there is no indication of it. Do point me to where it is showed this upgrade in durability. Now special construct using diferent minerals and not just SAND.

    Quote Quote:
    Raikage having not the best piercing abilities means nothing if the shield can withstand an attack way more powerful than Chidori in destructive force
    No. Its not way greater in anything. Raikage JUMPED and then he just fell(gravity...). Gaara's sand just stoped a falling dude be stoping him by providing leverage on his entire body mass and not even just the leg. Bee was able to take a DIRECT HIT to the neck with nothing but his flesh and no damage was showed. That is a SHIELD and nothing more. It does not do any type of damage to what Raikage hits or Bee's head would be off right now.
    Yes he can turn his shield into a cutting move but that is another thing. Raikage in that instance just jumped and then the sand under his body stoped the move. Its not like it was able to take a piercing attack or anything. The sand close to covered his entire body.
    Now if you whant to give the sand the durability of Bee's skin (not even flesh) be my gues.

    Quote Quote:
    and an enton justu on top of that
    So was the Samurai armour and Karin back. Irrelevant. That is not the focused Amaterasu.

    Quote Quote:
    we saw back against Kimimaro in part 1 that Gaara can mix minerals in his sand to increase the density and the hardness of the sand
    Using a special jutsus, a statue. There is no indication he can do that to the sand grains that he normaly usses and that pop out of his gourd. If you belive they exist be my gues to prove it. Gaara stoped Raikage and Amaterasu with his normal sand.
    Quote Quote:
    Back in part 1, Gaara withstood a piercing attack from a CS2 Kimimaro, which was leagues above the same Sasuke that pierced the sand.
    A bone attack? Keep dreaming. You actualy belive a bone has more piercing power then something stated to cut a lighting bolt in half? Even Samurai blades with raiton on them and put chip in his bones. Also and again that was a special jutsu, its not his normal sand. That was stated to be his most durable bone but NOTHING about piercing power. Chidori on the other hand... Even Raikage was impresed with Chidori.

    Quote Quote:
    And no, we saw with the Liger Bomb, with Raikage piercing Juugo from part to part that Raikage's nintaijutsu is ultra-powered no matter what he does.
    With Juugo's back against the wall and Raikage using some type of piercing move with his hand. Gaara stoped Raikage by grabing him from his entire body not just the tip of his hand... You actualy belive his but and back are piercing to?

    Quote Quote:
    And Raiton Armour almost blocked passively Sasuke's Chidori, meaning that the strongest, most focused attack from Sasuke was barely enough to pierce something the Raikage has always on.
    Its not like Raikage focused his chakra onto the part Sasuke hit, mostly because A was plenty arrogant not to believe Sasuke could've pierced his guard.
    That is because it is a shield... Naruto's 4 tails shiled stoped something that can pierce adamantine... What the shield can take is irrelevant to making Raikage magicaly making Gaara's sand "stop and drop".

    Quote Quote:
    Say Gaara uses the sand thingy he used to defend against Chidori back in part 1 and Deidara back in part 2, the ball thing.
    Since Amaterasu can't burn trough Gaara's sand as showed in the manga, and that Gaara not only can see thanks to the third eye, but also control sand remotely, how can Amaterasu get past it?
    Focused or not, we saw Gaara's sand barely affected by Amaterasu's flames ( Enton uses Amaterasu's flames ) so yeah, here you have Gaara's answer to Amaterasu.
    The level if ignorance is something else, i give clear example and you just ignore it... You are comparing something that burns fire itself, trough fireproof material, trough solid wall when focused to it not burning Karin's back at all... Ok...


    Quote Quote:
    As for Kirin, OP says that EMS is not included, so no spammable Amaterasu, so no instant Kirin.
    I sugest you read the OP AGAIN

    Quote Quote:
    Gaara vs. Sasuke... as they currently are...
    You probably noticed:

    Quote Quote:
    but not new abilities like EMS or Magnet Release Techs(Gold Dust)
    He was refering to the level of information bout 1 another. So yes flametrower mode on... Easy Kirin.



    Quote Quote:
    Kirin needs a lot of time to set up
    huh? Sasuke firething here:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/390/12
    Then it goes from clear sky to heavy clawds here:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/390/14

    What was it ? 10 seconds?
    Then a little later:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/390/16
    Bam. What was it ? 30 seconds? 1 minute max. This was just 1 fireball thing with CS and whatever else Amaterasu added but it was small (Amaterasu part as there where no clawds from it, they appeared after the firedragon thing).

    He can also use a smaller one out of the blue like he was about to do at Orochimaru's base when he got stoped.

    Quote Quote:
    and say Gaara puts sand on top of Amaterasu's flames, preventing the heat from reaching the atmosphere.
    The OP is not clear with this:
    They both know everything about each other at the time of the Kage Meeting

    Can be interpretated like they know everything about 1 another from that point as showed in the manga or complete info. So i am not even sure Gaara knows what Kirin is.

    Anyway heat would still be generated like you making a fire inside a oven.

    Quote Quote:
    Sasuke would need to sacrifice a good chunk of his chakra only with the set-up, he would waste another good chunk with Amaterasu and Susano'o
    1 dragon fireball (whatever its name is) its all he needs.... From just that in 1 minute it whent from close to clear sky to heavy rain. I have no idea how much Amaterasu added but he can do the same easy with flametrower on mode on Susano.
    Quote Quote:
    In the meantime, he would need to survive because if Gaara takes him away from Susano'o like he did against Madara and crushes him with his sand, its game-over.
    Yes because Gaara has Tsukisage help here to make his sand light... Oh and how light sand was able to enter Susano made no sense to me but then again i really don't understand what exacly happened in those panels.


    Quote Quote:
    Not only that, but Gaara can send sand underground, so him catching Sasuke off-guard can be possible, if done stealthly like he did against Kimimaro.
    Gaara's sand has chakra in it. Sasuke can see chakra.

    @ninjabot

    Quote Quote:
    So yeah. I have absolutely no problem being consistent, seeing as though I'm consistently proving you wrong, lmao.
    That made me lol hard.
    Last edited by xXan; April 12, 2012 at 03:21 AM.

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  8. #35
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    Re: Gaara vs. Sasuke

    Quote Quote:
    You said that I can't prove that Amaterasu burns things faster when it's focused on by the user who casts it. I showed it does. No amount of irrate flaming is gonna change the fact that you were proven wrong. A shitty argument, no matter how hard you yell, remains a shitty argument. You also claimed there's no difference from Enton and Amaterasu. I proved their is, where as one is pure Amaterasu flames from birth, while the other is Amaterasu's flames shaped with shape manipulation and then used in different forms, changing the properties of the attack.

    And though I didn't bring it up earlier, the greatest proof that Amaterasu is not the same as Enton is the fact that in the databook Amaterasu is classified as a katon. Not an enton. It's the strongest katon.

    So yeah. I have absolutely no problem being consistent, seeing as though I'm consistently proving you wrong, lmao.
    That's your opinion if you think you're proving anything here.

    Since I don't want this to become a trollfest, let me adress the problematic from the very start :

    Someone claimed that while Gaara was inside his shield of Sand, Sasuke would just have to use his Amaterasu to roast him or whatever saying that Amaterasu is a hot as the sun as it was said in the Databook. I said that it was a load of bullshit what was said there because of the non sense of the Databook, and that there's no way such a thing is real, you (or someone else can't remember) came and brought some examples about how Amaterasu in some cases burns its target faster, and sometimes no and gave an explanation that is actually logical, but it is in no way an argument since such a thing was never said by any Uchiha in the manga, in the other words, Kishi didn't say it, therefore it is in no way an argument, it is your explanation of an inconsistence. After that, you said that Amaterasu burns everything that it touches, which we already know instead of giving evidence (aka Sasuke/Itachi talking about raising or lowering the temperature of the attack, or controlling it).

    So far, not even Kishi said a word about any even Katon users being able to raise the temperature of their flames, let alone Amaterasu. The only thing that Kishi said is that it burns everything... but a what rate ? And is it really that hot to roast someone inside his defense ? These are the questions that no one can answer since it depends on Kishi, sometimes he protrayed Amaterasu being able to burn anything at a fast rate, sometimes not even able to burn a tree faster than that.

    So you can keep your explications for yourself, and not use it as an argument here, because it is not canonical, thank you.


    Quote Quote:
    Isn't that exactly what he said?

    Enton is like me picking up a burning stick from some camp fire and throwing it at you -> I'am sure you can dodge that.

    Regular Amaterasu however is like your face suddenly being ignited for no apparent reason -> I dont think you are going to dodge that...
    Refer to that part where I answered ninjabot and you'll see the dilemma. I'm well aware how normal Amaterasu works, but people here keep saying that Amaterasu is different from Enton, as if the flames are different, while it's not, it is the same flame. Ninjabot said since Chidori's variations are apparently weaker (although each attack serve a completely whole different purpose), then Enton flames should be weaker, which is ridiculous since Enton is nothing more but the skill to manipulate the shape of the Amaterasu flames, that's it.

  9. #36
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    Re: Gaara vs. Sasuke

    Really interesting fight here; both Sasuke and Gaara can be considered "all-around" types who can give trouble to anyone. Honestly don't know who to go with at this point, but surprisingly enough, I think Gaara actually has the advantage until we see what the EMS gives Sasuke.
    Avoiding debates with people below a certain level of English comp.

  10. #37
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Gaara vs. Sasuke

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    That's your opinion if you think you're proving anything here.

    Since I don't want this to become a trollfest, let me adress the problematic from the very start :

    Someone claimed that while Gaara was inside his shield of Sand, Sasuke would just have to use his Amaterasu to roast him or whatever saying that Amaterasu is a hot as the sun as it was said in the Databook. I said that it was a load of bullshit what was said there because of the non sense of the Databook, and that there's no way such a thing is real, you (or someone else can't remember) came and brought some examples about how Amaterasu in some cases burns its target faster, and sometimes no and gave an explanation that is actually logical, but it is in no way an argument since such a thing was never said by any Uchiha in the manga, in the other words, Kishi didn't say it, therefore it is in no way an argument, it is your explanation of an inconsistence. After that, you said that Amaterasu burns everything that it touches, which we already know instead of giving evidence (aka Sasuke/Itachi talking about raising or lowering the temperature of the attack, or controlling it).

    So far, not even Kishi said a word about any even Katon users being able to raise the temperature of their flames, let alone Amaterasu. The only thing that Kishi said is that it burns everything... but a what rate ? And is it really that hot to roast someone inside his defense ? These are the questions that no one can answer since it depends on Kishi, sometimes he protrayed Amaterasu being able to burn anything at a fast rate, sometimes not even able to burn a tree faster than that.

    So you can keep your explications for yourself, and not use it as an argument here, because it is not canonical, thank you.




    Refer to that part where I answered ninjabot and you'll see the dilemma. I'm well aware how normal Amaterasu works, but people here keep saying that Amaterasu is different from Enton, as if the flames are different, while it's not, it is the same flame. Ninjabot said since Chidori's variations are apparently weaker (although each attack serve a completely whole different purpose), then Enton flames should be weaker, which is ridiculous since Enton is nothing more but the skill to manipulate the shape of the Amaterasu flames, that's it.

    Jump inside an oven. I will heat it up to some 5500 degrees (The surfece of the sun or hell let's do it to only 200) Celsius and then you can tell me how that goes for you. Then you can try to bring evidence that the databook is wrong but this time use facts and not "its bullshit" as we got it burning something that was fireproof and then right trough solid wall. Hell even fire itself. The air inside Gaara's shield is going to be steaming how. He will die. Of course if Amaterasu can burn trough JMan's toad belly and trough a solid wall it would defenetly burn trough ... SAND.

    There is a HUGE diference from flames that can't burn trough Samurai armour or do close to no damage to Karin's back to something that burns close to instantly trough fireproof material and then trough solid wall. But yeah go ahead and call it bullshit. In ALL the instances where Amaterasu burns slowly its when the user is not focusing it with his eye. Or are you telling me Karins back has better durability then the blasted Toad Belly and that wall?

    Oh and Gaara using that eye would not do here. When that goes up any Raiton type jutsus from Sasuke is going to blind it.
    Last edited by xXan; April 12, 2012 at 08:48 AM.

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    Re: Gaara vs. Sasuke

    sasuke uses his amaterasu sword and burns up gaara


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    Re: Gaara vs. Sasuke

    Quote Originally Posted by UchihaHunter View Post
    Really interesting fight here; both Sasuke and Gaara can be considered "all-around" types who can give trouble to anyone. Honestly don't know who to go with at this point, but surprisingly enough, I think Gaara actually has the advantage until we see what the EMS gives Sasuke.
    Gaara does have an advantage with his massive sand attacks and ability to fight at a distances while negating genjutsu. Sasuke's best chance of winning would be to do so early on, before Gaara can fully prepare his attacks.

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  14. #40
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    Re: Gaara vs. Sasuke

    @ Ninjabot

    Spoiler show



    @ Rikudou King
    Spoiler show


    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Irrelevant. There is NO upgrade to the durability of his sand that is just.. SAND or at least there is no indication of it. Do point me to where it is showed this upgrade in durability. Now special construct using diferent minerals and not just SAND.
    You clearly missed the fact that Gaara's sand isn't simple sand, but special sand mixed with Gaara's chakra.
    Not shameful, since it was explained early in part 1 ( or 2 I guess, I don't remember if it was explained in the Rock Lee vs Gaara fight or against Deidara, or maybe against Sasuke? ).
    Since it is chakra mixed with Sand, it is reasonable to believe that War Arc Gaara >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Part 1 Gaara in terms of sand

    Quote Quote:
    No. Its not way greater in anything. Raikage JUMPED and then he just fell(gravity...). Gaara's sand just stoped a falling dude be stoping him by providing leverage on his entire body mass and not even just the leg. Bee was able to take a DIRECT HIT to the neck with nothing but his flesh and no damage was showed. That is a SHIELD and nothing more. It does not do any type of damage to what Raikage hits or Bee's head would be off right now.
    Yes he can turn his shield into a cutting move but that is another thing. Raikage in that instance just jumped and then the sand under his body stoped the move. Its not like it was able to take a piercing attack or anything. The sand close to covered his entire body.
    Now if you whant to give the sand the durability of Bee's skin (not even flesh) be my gues.
    Any of Raikage blows are Taijutsu with added momentum, yet they do a shit load of damage.
    And no, he brings down his leg, see the lines, and the impact?

    And no, the Raiton armour is not a simple shield.
    Do I have to link you the countless times Raikage used the Raiton Armour to attack with his Nintaijutsu?

    Quote Quote:
    So was the Samurai armour and Karin back. Irrelevant. That is not the focused Amaterasu.
    Against the Samurai warrior it was a focused Amaterasu my friend.
    Focused Amaterasu aimed at Raikage and hitting the samurai.
    So here, proof.
    Unless you can bring me a clear statement in which Sasuke, Itachi, Tobi or Madara says that Amaterasu burns differently then I will pull a move out of your book on Yondaime's debating and saying that unless it is proven and states otherwise it is false.

    Quote Quote:
    Using a special jutsus, a statue. There is no indication he can do that to the sand grains that he normaly usses and that pop out of his gourd. If you belive they exist be my gues to prove it. Gaara stoped Raikage and Amaterasu with his normal sand.
    Seem like a pretty easy thing to do, since he upped it up in an istant, despite being bound


    Quote Quote:
    A bone attack? Keep dreaming. You actualy belive a bone has more piercing power then something stated to cut a lighting bolt in half? Even Samurai blades with raiton on them and put chip in his bones. Also and again that was a special jutsu, its not his normal sand. That was stated to be his most durable bone but NOTHING about piercing power. Chidori on the other hand... Even Raikage was impresed with Chidori.
    1-It is Raikiri, not Chidori, and it is an hyperbole
    2-Sharpest point of a spear. What a spear does? It pierces. And it was ultra-powered bone by a CS2
    3-Kimimaro pierced the chakra-infused katanas of the samurai, in base mode, not the other way around.
    4-And Orochimaru was infatuated by Kimimaro saying that it was the body he desired the most, so A praising Chidori doesn't mean a thing.
    Oro didn't kept Sasuke around because he was all that talented, it was only because he needed a Sharingan. Sasuke remarks it too when confronting him, saying that he went for the "weaker Uchiha"

    Quote Quote:
    With Juugo's back against the wall and Raikage using some type of piercing move with his hand. Gaara stoped Raikage by grabing him from his entire body not just the tip of his hand... You actualy belive his but and back are piercing to?
    Considering it blocked his leg, in which it streamed lighting chakra then yes, I believe that it has some sort of piercing power, given the element.
    Do you believe Lariat to be a piercing move? Then why did it cave in Sasuke's chest, or cut Kisame's head?

    Quote Quote:
    That is because it is a shield... Naruto's 4 tails shiled stoped something that can pierce adamantine... What the shield can take is irrelevant to making Raikage magicaly making Gaara's sand "stop and drop".
    It simply proves that your convinction that Chidori>all is unfounded by manga feats

    Quote Quote:
    The level if ignorance is something else, i give clear example and you just ignore it... You are comparing something that burns fire itself, trough fireproof material, trough solid wall when focused to it not burning Karin's back at all... Ok...
    Again, with manga proof and not your convinction, we saw that Gaara's sand could withstand Amaterasu.
    It burning fire doesn't mean nothing, since fire neved did a thing to Gaara's sand.
    But of course focused Amaterasu is stronger, after all that Samurai got cremated in an instant.
    Oh wait...

    Quote Quote:
    I sugest you read the OP AGAIN
    He was refering to the level of information bout 1 another. So yes flametrower mode on... Easy Kirin.
    True, my bad.
    It remains to be seen if the matagama can reach that far. But yes, Amaterasu arrows could set up Kirin. How fast it remains to be seen

    Quote Quote:
    huh? Sasuke firething here:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/390/12
    Then it goes from clear sky to heavy clawds here:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/390/14

    What was it ? 10 seconds?
    Then a little later:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/390/16
    Bam. What was it ? 30 seconds? 1 minute max. This was just 1 fireball thing with CS and whatever else Amaterasu added but it was small (Amaterasu part as there where no clawds from it, they appeared after the firedragon thing).
    He fired 4 of those Dragon things to set it up, then got a lot of time of talking, then Zetsu got a lot of time of thinking, then again, good bit of talking, then he drops it.

    Seems to me a pretty good deal of time, not 10 seconds.
    But of course, continue to believe it

    Quote Quote:
    He can also use a smaller one out of the blue like he was about to do at Orochimaru's base when he got stoped.
    Not proven by anything, neither he used it, so it is, as you say, irrilevant

    Quote Quote:
    The OP is not clear with this:
    They both know everything about each other at the time of the Kage Meeting

    Can be interpretated like they know everything about 1 another from that point as showed in the manga or complete info. So i am not even sure Gaara knows what Kirin is.
    Kirin isn't an EMS jutsu.
    Not only that, but one can know what it does by using common sense, I mean you see a giant thunder, then you see Sasuke using a raiton thing to take control of it. I doubt it requires all those smarts to figure things out lol.
    Since Gaara managed to defend from Madara's meteor, I don't doubt he can withstand Kirin. Unless you believe that a giant meteor << Kirin

    Quote Quote:
    Anyway heat would still be generated like you making a fire inside a oven.
    Yes, because Amaterasu is so hot to burn those who are close to it.
    I guess Sasuke and Itachi are immune to it, since they stand around it pretty close without breaking a sweat.
    And again, Gaara's sand withstood Amaterasu flames no problem

    Quote Quote:
    1 dragon fireball (whatever its name is) its all he needs.... From just that in 1 minute it whent from close to clear sky to heavy rain. I have no idea how much Amaterasu added but he can do the same easy with flametrower on mode on Susano.
    Already proven that it required 4 dragon fireballs + Amaterasu flames.
    Again we don't know how far the flamethrower goes or how heating material a Susano'o arrow provides, since it is plenty different from an entire forest burning with Amaterasu flames

    Quote Quote:
    Yes because Gaara has Tsukisage help here to make his sand light... Oh and how light sand was able to enter Susano made no sense to me but then again i really don't understand what exacly happened in those panels.
    From below, Susano'o weak point.
    And Gaara can make the sand travel underground

    Quote Quote:
    Gaara's sand has chakra in it. Sasuke can see chakra.
    Yet he can't distinguish a clay bushin made of chakra from Deidara.
    How come?

  15. #41
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Gaara vs. Sasuke

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Gaara does have an advantage with his massive sand attacks and ability to fight at a distances while negating genjutsu. Sasuke's best chance of winning would be to do so early on, before Gaara can fully prepare his attacks.
    Exactly. I feel like this is basically the same as Minato vs. Gaara or Minato vs. Hashirama. If Sasuke can win early on, it'll seem like a stomp. The longer the fight goes on, the more the terrain changes, etc. go to Gaara's advantage. And Gaara has some pretty good feats with his sand currently.

    Edit: I agree with a lot of what Uchiha_Blood is saying, except for the focused Amaterasu point. The Amaterasu was created with Sasuke looking at A. When A dodged it, it continued on to the samurai...we saw it caused instant pain, but almost as quickly as A dodged it, Sasuke was looking for A again, so it's not the same as say...Itachi using it on the frog's belly or Sasuke using it on Danzou.

    Despite all of that, I also doubt that Amaterasu would cook Gaara in his defense. Sasuke's best bet for winning via Amaterasu would be causing some sort of distraction to get an opening to use Amaterasu on Gaara. I don't think his sand can defend him as quickly as Amaterasu forms (but again, Gaara's sand has a lot of feats...)
    Last edited by UchihaHunter; April 12, 2012 at 01:18 PM.
    Avoiding debates with people below a certain level of English comp.

  16. #42
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Gaara vs. Sasuke

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood
    You don't say.
    And Sasuke cut through their chakra attacks ( not their swords ) using his sword with Chidori flowing.
    Now, Kimimaro in base ( way weaker than his CS2 self ) pierced ( not cut, pierced ) a sword similar to Sasuke's one in two without a problem. Add to that CS2 ( thus way strenghtning the bones ) and Kimimaro using the bones with the most piercing power, and him failing to pierce Gaara is a clear indication that Gaara can stop an attack on the level of Chidori.
    That sword wasn't similar to Sasuke's. Sasuke's is a kusanagi. No one's breaking that sword. But no. Gaara can not stop a Chidori with his dome. Not unless he makes it thicker than like, 6 feet or something to stop Sasuke from pushing all the way through. At which point extending Chidori Eisou through it makes up for any range disadvantage.



    Quote Quote:
    Gaara was able to defend from all Kimimaro's attacks and attack as well while grinding the sand from the ground, at great speed, to the point where he could create a sea of sand.
    Like Rikudou well said in his last post, Sasuke's chance is to end the fight in the first instants. And the only way to do it is a Susano'o arrow, which can arguably pierce Gaara's sand and continue to sped ahead and pierce Gaara.
    Him blocking Madara's matagama is a strong point in his favour though
    Great speed nothing. They were sitting their playing keep away for a good couple of minutes, and the whole time Gaara was mixing. Not to mention Kimimaro hadn't launched an attack nearly as damaging or quick as an Amaterasu or Susanoo arrow, meaning Gaara was never in so much danger he needed to focus on his defense more than grinding the sand away. Gaara was comfortable, so there was no need to stop making sand. If he were to be blitzed by Sasuke who starts tearting down his sand defenses with Chidori or Chidori Eisou, multitasking becomes impossible as he has to focus on protecting himself rather than preparing his jutsu. Unlike Sasuke's Kirin that can be prepared without focus, Gaara has to purposefully make his sand inorder to get more. And a full on offensive is gonna prevent that.

    As for blocking Madara's Magatama, Madara's wasn't made of Enton. Nor was it as powerful as Itachi's because it wasn't combined into a giant one. Nor did he block it on his own (Oonoki's Golem helped).

    Quote Quote:
    It does not.
    Why?
    Here he fires 3 Goryuka, we see Itachi evade them all, then he fires a fourth one.
    And he was powered by CS2, meaning his attacks were way, way stronger than his base. And don't forget, at the price of his using a part of his chakra to suppress Oro, Sasuke's body was strenghten by Oro's chakra and ability:
    It must be the white snake power.

    So actual Sasuke would require way more than 4 Goryuukas to set the conditions for Kirin.
    As well as an entire forest surrounded with Amaterasu
    That's wrong. Completely. Just like Housenka, one usage of the jutsu creates multiple fireballs. http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Fire_Re...Fire_Technique

    "A master of this technique can fire off several flames in succession and anyone caught in the technique could potentially be reduced to ashes."

    He didn't use 4 B-rank jutsu. He used 1 B-rank jutsu that allowed him 4 consecutive "bursts" of fire.

    Quote Quote:
    We see a giant dragon being nicely in the air for the time for Sasuke to brag about Kirin being an attack like Amaterasu, then do the cool line "disappear with the thunder".
    Say he has enough sand, Gaara had the ability to cover the whole Suna Village with sand in an istant, when Deidara dropped the bomb.
    If he has the sand, he will not be taken out by Kirin.
    If he hasn't, he is toast. Considering he created a sea of sand in part 1, being way weaker than his actual self, in a little time, I'll give his this probability
    No we don't. We see a storm. Then we see a giant mass of lightning appear above them in a big shape. It doesn't become a dragon until Sasuke raises his hand to shape the lightning. As for covering all of Suna I'll repeat: he was in a damn DESERT. He didn't need to prep the sand for him because the place was MADE of loose sand. Not to mention that bomb was dropping at natural speed, not lightning-bolt speed. Not 1/1000th of a second. There's literally no way in hell Gaara would ever amass the amount of sand needed in time. Never. Even if they were in a desert. It's simply impossible. Impossible.

    Quote Quote:
    Do you have some proof?
    I most certainly do: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Summoning_Technique


    "The amount of chakra used during the summoning determines how powerful the summoned creature can be."

    AKA, the bigger the summon, the bigger the chakra cost.

    Quote Quote:
    I have proof that summoning great animals require a good deal of chakra, and I have proof that Gaara can move his sand despite being near exhausted.
    That's my point: they have to be Gamabunta-sized to cost any significant amount of chakra, and Sasuke's hawk isn't THAT damn big. So no. Bringing that hawk out isn't nearly as costly as what Gaara's gonna be doing. As for Gaara moving sand despite being nearly exhausted, I'm gonna have to see that. I saw him exhausted against Kimimaro, and he couldn't muster sand in time to defend against Kimimaro's last attack. Likewise against Deidara that sand defense he used to protect against his C3 left him exhausted. He was still flying, but he was tired, meaning there's no telling how much longer he would've lasted.

    Whether it takes little chakra to stay afloat or not, it still counts, since it costs Sasuke nothing to stay aloft, and every single sand ability Gaara uses will require chakra. Every single movement puts him closer to the edge while Sasuke is just fine.

    Quote Quote:
    Kurotsuchi too had Oonoki's flight ability, yet he was waaaaay slower than him.
    Saying that Deidara's speed = Sasuke's because both uses birds to fly is, pardon me, ridiculous.
    And with all his quick thinking and great sight, the hawk was offed by a single jutsu from Danzou
    I never said that. I said one can reason that their flight speeds are similar because they're both birds, though one is a bird of prey and potentially faster. Kurotsuchi's example means nothing because she wasn't controlling the jutsu, Oonoki was.

    Also, you're mistaken. Danzou didn't touch Sasuke's hawk. They flew at Danzo and Sasuke lept off of the hawk, while the hawk dodged his Fuuton and flew offpanel to who-knows-where. http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/477/12

    Quote Quote:
    What did Chidori Eisou hit excluding a clone of Itachi and a wounded guy thinking that Sasuke would not off him and his girlfriend?
    It cut through Deidara's CS2 Dragon's wing. It also shreded through Killerbee's Bijuu Mode tentacle like a hot knife through butter.

    Quote Quote:
    As for Susano'o, no he can't, since if Gaara catches him while he has it active and gets it out of the way like he did with Madara, he can't reform it and reactivate it, since Madara couldn't, unless you believe that Sasuke > Madara.
    As for Chidori Nagashi true, it remains to be seen if Gaara wouldn't simply use more sand to anchor him. Chidori Nagashi has a short duration

    You're not acknowledging all the work it took to get that to work though. Madara wasn't even paying attention to Gaara when he did that. Likewise, Oonoki had already lightened the sand so it could move faster. Lastly, it required sand that was already inside of the Susanoo to grab hold of his arm so he could pull him out. They were once again, in a desert.

    Quote Quote:
    If Gaara remainst static like a moron yes.
    If Gaara does the usual and, you know, substituted with his sand then he will pierce nothing. Remember against Lee? He substituted in the moment where Gai closed his eyes.
    In a moment notice
    No one hiding behind a dome has the time to create a clone and then move out of the dome without notice, especially if the dome is just recently created. Gaara sure as hell didn't make a clone to escape whenever Deidara blew him up in his dome while they were in midair. Didn't do it when Sasuke shoved a Chidori straight through his dome either. I don't doubt that he can make a clone and attempt an escape. I do however doubt it'll go unnoticed since if they're in the middle of the sky he has to rip off some of his sand so that he can drop down and fly away while the clone is being killed. Sasuke will notice that much movement.


    Quote Quote:
    As for Goryuuka, you forget that Gaara's sand isn't simple sand. Is sand mixed and laced with Gaara's chakra, making it way faster and more resilient than normal sand.
    It blocking Goryuuka is a given, since it appears that Sand is naturally strong against Katon, as showed in part 1.
    Of course an instantly summoned Susano'o together with an Enton Arrow would be likely way too much for Gaara to deal with, fortunately for him Sasuke requires some second to go into full Susano'o form and another few seconds to charge and strike.
    Danzou had no problems whatsoever seeing it, simply he was not fast enough to do handseals.
    Would Gaara's sand deviate the course of the arrow? Unlikely but not impossible, since it stopped a lot of Madara's matagama
    I repeat: Gaara didn't block those Magatama by himself. It was the combined effort of his sand being faster thanks to Oonoki lightening it, aswell as the fact that Oonoki put up a golem along with it. http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/563/9 http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/563/10And even if he moves the arrows off some so that they don't pierce straight through his body, the fact that they're made of Enton guarantee's a burst of flame that will expand onto his clothing or the inner parts of his sand defense. Sasuke doesn't even need a direct hit to set him aflame.
    Last edited by ninjabot; April 12, 2012 at 01:42 PM.

  17. #43
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
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    Re: Gaara vs. Sasuke

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    That sword wasn't similar to Sasuke's. Sasuke's is a kusanagi. No one's breaking that sword. But no. Gaara can not stop a Chidori with his dome. Not unless he makes it thicker than like, 6 feet or something to stop Sasuke from pushing all the way through. At which point extending Chidori Eisou through it makes up for any range disadvantage.
    I'm not saying that Kimimaro will pierce Sasuke's sword, I'm saying that Kimimaro's piercing ability at least rivales with a Chidori-like attack.

    As for Gaara not being capable to block Sasuke, don't forget that the Sasuke that pierced his defence had a whole lot running to increase his piercing and destructive power, a Chidori from a short distance do not have the same piercing capacity imho.
    Not only that, but seeing as Sasuke already owned him with an attack like that, Gaara would likely flee instead of being a sitting duck.
    In part 1 he simply greatly underestimate Sasuke
    Quote Quote:
    Great speed nothing. They were sitting their playing keep away for a good couple of minutes, and the whole time Gaara was mixing. Not to mention Kimimaro hadn't launched an attack nearly as damaging or quick as an Amaterasu or Susanoo arrow, meaning Gaara was never in so much danger he needed to focus on his defense more than grinding the sand away. Gaara was comfortable, so there was no need to stop making sand. If he were to be blitzed by Sasuke who starts tearting down his sand defenses with Chidori or Chidori Eisou, multitasking becomes impossible as he has to focus on protecting himself rather than preparing his jutsu. Unlike Sasuke's Kirin that can be prepared without focus, Gaara has to purposefully make his sand inorder to get more. And a full on offensive is gonna prevent that.
    Kimimaro was fast, way fast, despite being sick.
    Still, again, Amaterasu can and will be blocked by Gaara unless Sasuke exploits a weakness ( which can happen of course ) and, again, it remains to be seen if Gaara can't divert the course of an arrow.

    As for Gaara's supposed slow defence against Kirin, don't forget that he get it up pretty fast against Madara's meteor, despite wasting a lot of sand to make the initial attack, then against his father and then against Niidaime Mizukage.
    It is also likely that he used his normal sand to defend from a freakin' meteor. Again unless it is scenario 2 I can't see Kirin being the decisive factor here, since it gives Gaara precious seconds to set up his defence

    Quote Quote:
    As for blocking Madara's Magatama, Madara's wasn't made of Enton. Nor was it as powerful as Itachi's because it wasn't combined into a giant one. Nor did he block it on his own (Oonoki's Golem helped).
    He blocked like 8 Matagamas.
    Even if it was a combined defense, it was still at least able to block half without a problem. It remains to be seen, again, if Susano'o Arrows > Madara's Matagama.
    Don't forget that Madara is stronger than Sasuke, so despite the absence of Enton the difference in power should be enough

    Quote Quote:
    That's wrong. Completely. Just like Housenka, one usage of the jutsu creates multiple fireballs. http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Fire_Re...Fire_Technique

    "A master of this technique can fire off several flames in succession and anyone caught in the technique could potentially be reduced to ashes."

    He didn't use 4 B-rank jutsu. He used 1 B-rank jutsu that allowed him 4 consecutive "bursts" of fire.
    He still fired 4 Dragons, even if it was a single B rank.
    Not one dragon, 4.
    Which is different from firing 1 dragon

    Quote Quote:
    No we don't. We see a storm. Then we see a giant mass of lightning appear above them in a big shape. It doesn't become a dragon until Sasuke raises his hand to shape the lightning. As for covering all of Suna I'll repeat: he was in a damn DESERT. He didn't need to prep the sand for him because the place was MADE of loose sand. Not to mention that bomb was dropping at natural speed, not lightning-bolt speed. Not 1/1000th of a second. There's literally no way in hell Gaara would ever amass the amount of sand needed in time. Never. Even if they were in a desert. It's simply impossible. Impossible.
    Even the time that requires for the ligthing to appear and then to form is likely enough for Gaara to set up his defence.
    And you forget that Kirin requires at least 1 to 3 minutes to form, plenty of time, for Gaara, to do what he wants. And despite Sasuke having more chakra, the Goryakyuu would still dent his reserves a good bit, and he would have to strenghten it and likely use more than once the jutsu, since he doesn't have his CS2 anymore.
    Did you forget that CS2 greatly enhances the strenght of the user?
    hebi Sasuke had CS2 + Oro's powers, and he still required, after the Goryakyuu the aid of an entire forest burned by Amaterasu.
    The increased stamina pays in a decreased strenght
    Quote Quote:
    I most certainly do: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Summoning_Technique


    "The amount of chakra used during the summoning determines how powerful the summoned creature can be."

    AKA, the bigger the summon, the bigger the chakra cost.



    That's my point: they have to be Gamabunta-sized to cost any significant amount of chakra, and Sasuke's hawk isn't THAT damn big. So no. Bringing that hawk out isn't nearly as costly as what Gaara's gonna be doing. As for Gaara moving sand despite being nearly exhausted, I'm gonna have to see that. I saw him exhausted against Kimimaro, and he couldn't muster sand in time to defend against Kimimaro's last attack. Likewise against Deidara that sand defense he used to protect against his C3 left him exhausted. He was still flying, but he was tired, meaning there's no telling how much longer he would've lasted.

    Whether it takes little chakra to stay afloat or not, it still counts, since it costs Sasuke nothing to stay aloft, and every single sand ability Gaara uses will require chakra. Every single movement puts him closer to the edge while Sasuke is just fine.
    This isn't Gaara using attack when exhausted, this is Gaara using his sand to fly and stay afloat despite being nearly depleted.
    Nearly depleted he moved a village worth of sand out of the way.
    Completely depleted, he easily floated and moved in air Lee and himself against Kimimaro.

    As for the summon, the hawk wasn't that big, true, but it wasn't overly small either.

    Quote Quote:
    I never said that. I said one can reason that their flight speeds are similar because they're both birds, though one is a bird of prey and potentially faster. Kurotsuchi's example means nothing because she wasn't controlling the jutsu, Oonoki was.

    Also, you're mistaken. Danzou didn't touch Sasuke's hawk. They flew at Danzo and Sasuke lept off of the hawk, while the hawk dodged his Fuuton and flew offpanel to who-knows-where. http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/477/12
    Oonoki did not control the jutsu, he used the same jutsu on himself and the other two.
    The other two were way slower since they were slower to begin with.

    As for the hawk, I remembered wrongly, you're right

    Quote Quote:
    It cut through Deidara's CS2 Dragon's wing. It also shreded through Killerbee's Bijuu Mode tentacle like a hot knife through butter.
    Giant, enormous targets, the both of them

    Quote Quote:
    You're not acknowledging all the work it took to get that to work though. Madara wasn't even paying attention to Gaara when he did that. Likewise, Oonoki had already lightened the sand so it could move faster. Lastly, it required sand that was already inside of the Susanoo to grab hold of his arm so he could pull him out. They were once again, in a desert.
    it was a wasteland, not a desert.
    All that it was around was rock, not sand.
    As for all the hard work, it still remains the fact that Susano'o is weak on the base and that Gaara can easily move and control sand to sneak up to Sasuke below him and catch him despite Susano'o. Even if he doesn't pull him out, he can use the Desert Coffin from within Susano'o to squeeze the life out of Sasuke.
    And depending on the sand quantity even the summon wouldn't be enough imho since, as you said, it wasn't that big.

    Still you can say rightly that, even if trapped, Sasuke can likely launch an Amaterasu arrow at Gaara.
    That way the fastest one would win, and the slowest would die



    Quote Quote:
    No one hiding behind a dome has the time to create a clone and then move out of the dome without notice, especially if the dome is just recently created. Gaara sure as hell didn't make a clone to escape whenever Deidara blew him up in his dome while they were in midair. Didn't do it when Sasuke shoved a Chidori straight through his dome either. I don't doubt that he can make a clone and attempt an escape. I do however doubt it'll go unnoticed since if they're in the middle of the sky he has to rip off some of his sand so that he can drop down and fly away while the clone is being killed. Sasuke will notice that much movement.
    When Sasuke did it, Gaara was a sitting duck.
    Just recently ( relatively ), Dodai did it against the Third Raikage.

    As for the movement, it depends on the line of vision, the dome is laced with Chakra, so all Sasuke would see would be chakra. And again, he didn't notice Deidara's clay clone in plain sight


    Quote Quote:
    I repeat: Gaara didn't block those Magatama by himself. It was the combined effort of his sand being faster thanks to Oonoki lightening it, aswell as the fact tha Oonoki put up a golem along with it. And even if he moves the arrows off some so that they don't pierce straight through his body, the fact that they're made of Enton guarantee's a burst of flame that will expand onto his clothing or the inner parts of his sand defense. Sasuke doesn't even need a direct hit to set him aflame.
    Faster does not equal more resilient, and again it blocked, like, half of the matagamas.
    Still you're right, there is a possibility that, even if Gaara can divert its course, he can still be hit. It remains to be seen though

    ---------- Post added at 01:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by UchihaHunter View Post
    Exactly. I feel like this is basically the same as Minato vs. Gaara or Minato vs. Hashirama. If Sasuke can win early on, it'll seem like a stomp. The longer the fight goes on, the more the terrain changes, etc. go to Gaara's advantage. And Gaara has some pretty good feats with his sand currently.

    Edit: I agree with a lot of what Uchiha_Blood is saying, except for the focused Amaterasu point. The Amaterasu was created with Sasuke looking at A. When A dodged it, it continued on to the samurai...we saw it caused instant pain, but almost as quickly as A dodged it, Sasuke was looking for A again, so it's not the same as say...Itachi using it on the frog's belly or Sasuke using it on Danzou.

    Despite all of that, I also doubt that Amaterasu would cook Gaara in his defense. Sasuke's best bet for winning via Amaterasu would be causing some sort of distraction to get an opening to use Amaterasu on Gaara. I don't think his sand can defend him as quickly as Amaterasu forms (but again, Gaara's sand has a lot of feats...)
    I believe most of us are confused by Kishi's inconsistency, let me explain:
    we saw various degree of Amaterasu, hell a focused Amaterasu couldn't burn much of Nagato, only part of his arm, despite Itachi explaining basically Koto Amatsukami ( and he did a lot of talking ).
    Same for Sasuke and the Samurai.

    Simply put, Kishi adaptes it as the occasion goes
    Last edited by Uchiha_Blood; April 12, 2012 at 01:58 PM.

  18. #44
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Gaara vs. Sasuke

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    If already prepped, I agree with Kirin.
    Not with Chidori, neither with Goryuuka.
    Susano'o Arrows debatable, since it might be able to deviate its course
    Why not with Chidori and it's variations? Chidori was already proven capable of getting through Gaara's defense. And the Goryuuka broke straight through solid rock, which was quite thick. There's really no reason it shouldn't work here. Deviation would only work if Gaara's sand defense moved him, which it doesn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    In part 1 Gaara dealt with Kimimaro, someone more skilled than sasuke in taijutsu and with similar speed, attacking and defending while prepping the Sand.
    I doubt Sasuke would do better, unless he spams Amaterasu, and we know that at his MS level a single Amaterasu took a bit out of him
    More skilled? Gaara dealt with a regular ranged technique against Kimimaro. Not only does Sasuke have a better collection of ranged techniques, but also close ranged techniques that we know can get through Gaara's regular sand shield with Sasuke's speed. And Sasuke was capable of using his MS at least six times i a single battle without getting that worn out. He could spam Amaterasu if he needs to, though he wouldn't here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Yet it has the same strenght and qualities, since it is also Amaterasu.
    As for the Magatamas, there were a lot of them, not a single one.
    We don't know if Susano'o arrows > Matagama, considering that it was a strong attack from the strongest Uchiha
    Amaterasu can be made to burn hotter or enlarge however the user wants. As far as we have seen from Enton, it has a set form once created. Each magatama hit a separate area, so it's not like they collided with each other to go deeper. And the arrows wouldn't have to be stronger, or even as strong, just strong enough. We've seen the arrow's go quite deep in solid stone, and the sand is less dense then that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Shame Sasuke can't spam Amaterasu, those Amaterasu projectile maybe, but those are similar to enton, and Gaara dealt with it pretty smoothly without sacrificing a lot of sand, to the point where he attacked Sasuke without a problem afterwards.
    If Enton couldn't damage Gaara's sand, I doubt that Amaterasu could either, since it is basically the same attack, only manipulated differently.

    As for the mith that Amaterasu burns faster than Enton, despite being the same attack, reread Sasuke vs Raikage:
    a focused Amaterasu on the samurai took forever to burn. One does not focus Amaterasu's burning, it can simply enlarge his range, Once the flames are summoned that's it.
    Unless you can bring some proof
    Sasuke would have little trouble using multiple Amaterasu in battle. It can't possibly be more costly then using a complete Susanoo, which Sasuke has shown capable of pulling up whenever he wants. We even saw that creating a ring of flames took no effort on his part. Amaterasu can be made to burn hotter and cover a wider area then Enton.

    The Amaterasu on the samurai wasn't focused. The moment Ee had moved, Sasuke stop focusing on it. Now we saw him focus one on Danzo and Danzo burn to ash within moments. The same thing happen when Itachi escaped the toad's esophagus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Water Bushin for Kakashi and Itachi.
    Then Karasu bushin and Clay bushin.
    Sasuke fell victim of both. I doubt a Suna bushin wouldn't succeed, since pratically the clay bushin is the same only using clay instead of sand. And Sasuke had a clear visual of Deidara on top of the bird, he didn't had any obstacle in his vision
    Neither Kakashi or Itachi were fooled by the Water Clones, same with Sasuke regarding the Crow Clone. They were aware that they were clones. And the sand clone works quite differently from a clay clone.

    Deidara wasn't on top of the clay bird through, that was is clone. Deidara spent the whole time hiding inside the bird, which due to being made of his chakra, would have keep the Sharingan from seeing him. Gaara wouldn't be able to fool Sasuke with a clone unless he had some means to hide himself away so that Sasuke can't see him.

  19. #45
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
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    Re: Gaara vs. Sasuke

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Why not with Chidori and it's variations? Chidori was already proven capable of getting through Gaara's defense. And the Goryuuka broke straight through solid rock, which was quite thick. There's really no reason it shouldn't work here. Deviation would only work if Gaara's sand defense moved him, which it doesn't.
    Because the Chidori that pierced Gaara's defence was a Chidori charged with a lot of running, which definitely increases the Chidori's power and piercing abilities.

    As for the Goryuuka, we saw that Katons are mostly ineffective against Gaara's sand, and even if it got through a wall, don't forget that Gaara's sand is different from normal sand.
    For the arrow, I meant like the Mokuton did, deviate its course. Since moving sand does not required handseals, it can be done if the sand is resilient enough, which is debatable

    Quote Quote:
    More skilled? Gaara dealt with a regular ranged technique against Kimimaro. Not only does Sasuke have a better collection of ranged techniques, but also close ranged techniques that we know can get through Gaara's regular sand shield with Sasuke's speed. And Sasuke was capable of using his MS at least six times i a single battle without getting that worn out. He could spam Amaterasu if he needs to, though he wouldn't here.
    In part 1 Kimimaro was faster and more skilled than Sasuke, that much is obvious.
    And Kimimaro's strongest piercing attack couldn't touch Gaara, neither all of his attacks until the CS2, to say.
    As for the MS spam, what Sasuke spams is Susano'o, he is conservative with Amaterasu since he uses it 1, 2 times at most


    Quote Quote:
    Amaterasu can be made to burn hotter or enlarge however the user wants. As far as we have seen from Enton, it has a set form once created. Each magatama hit a separate area, so it's not like they collided with each other to go deeper. And the arrows wouldn't have to be stronger, or even as strong, just strong enough. We've seen the arrow's go quite deep in solid stone, and the sand is less dense then that.
    I really would like proof, I provided 2 examples in which a concentrated Amaterasu didn't do anything

    Quote Quote:
    Sasuke would have little trouble using multiple Amaterasu in battle. It can't possibly be more costly then using a complete Susanoo, which Sasuke has shown capable of pulling up whenever he wants. We even saw that creating a ring of flames took no effort on his part. Amaterasu can be made to burn hotter and cover a wider area then Enton.
    Remember against Danzou?
    Before Amaterasu he was fine and dandy, when he used it he got all sweaty and tired, and Tobi too commented on it. Amaterasu is costly, 2 Amaterasu depleted most of Itachi's chakra, which isn't saying much, I know, but still it means that it is requires a ton of chakra

    Quote Quote:
    The Amaterasu on the samurai wasn't focused. The moment Ee had moved, Sasuke stop focusing on it. Now we saw him focus one on Danzo and Danzo burn to ash within moments. The same thing happen when Itachi escaped the toad's esophagus.
    No, follow the panels, the Amaterasu is focused since it was directed to A, only when it hit the samurai Sasuke diverted his attention

    Quote Quote:
    Neither Kakashi or Itachi were fooled by the Water Clones, same with Sasuke regarding the Crow Clone. They were aware that they were clones. And the sand clone works quite differently from a clay clone.
    Kakashi was fooled by Zabuza's, Itachi by Kakashi's. And yes, Sasuke didn't know that the Itachi on the cave was a crow bushin.
    And no, since both uses materials to form a bushin it is likely to assume that they work in a similar way, since for Deidara the medium is clay, while for Gaara is sand. We saw against Niidaime that the Sand Bushin works the same way, since he mistaked it for Oonoki

    Quote Quote:
    Deidara wasn't on top of the clay bird through, that was is clone. Deidara spent the whole time hiding inside the bird, which due to being made of his chakra, would have keep the Sharingan from seeing him. Gaara wouldn't be able to fool Sasuke with a clone unless he had some means to hide himself away so that Sasuke can't see him.
    Hide inside a dome?
    And Sasuke still would've seen through the bushin if he was able to, since his vision was pretty clear

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