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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
@blackmidnight your hatred for Miu amuses me why does she irk you so much?! if she died you probably wouldn't even care would you lol
@Lost0 Miu's leg strength is not greater than Kenichi's if that was the case she should used her special finishing move (Fuurinji Kouhou Yoku) instead of asking Kenichi to use Korui Nuki to finish off that Weapons user; I agree that she is a better fighter, but I wouldn't say Kenichi's attacks are weaker than Miu's; Kenichi is only disciple with a technique powerful enough to finish an expert class fighter in one hit from what we've seen so far..
There were some inconsistencies in that chapter if that weapons master couldn't really tell what was going on it makes NO sense for Kenichi or that little girl to be able to follow the action better than he could; notice how the princess asked Kenichi instead of the weapons master what was happening...are we supposed to conclude that Kenichi's eyesight is greater than average master class? idk...IMO I don't see how Kenichi could follow Jenezad's movement when's he probably faster than Hongou..
I'm glad Sakaki didn't fight first because he would be in the same situation Hongou is in now; at least now he can see Jenezad's techniques and formulate a plan in his head to counter his fighting style while Hongou fights, he'll definitely have a better chance at beating Jenezad than Hongou atm...
Last edited by BASED Shinigami; April 14, 2012 at 10:05 PM.
"Hongou is out-matched." "Things are looking bad for Hongou" "Hongou's gonna be defeated." "Jenazad is gonna kill him." "You can clearly see the difference in skill between them."
Yknow, y'all sound like every opponent that Kenichi has ever faced. Isn't one of the running themes throughout this ENTIRE manga about how someone overcomes difficult situations because of the strength of their convictions/beliefs/pride (whatever)? Seems to me like Hongou's heart might yet have a few things in store for us.
@blackmidnight: Are you even reading this manga? It has been stated outright on so many occasions that Kenichi: 1. CANNOT fight seriously against women or children. 2. Can only show his true power when protecting or saving someone. 3. When it comes to Miu even if the two previous conditions weren't present he still wouldn't be able to fight properly against her because she's MIU.
So Kenichi got his ass handed to him (repeatedly) by Miu; but the moment she was in danger he surpassed his limits and defeated a much higher ranked fighter. Of course he only did that WITH her help. You could even say that Miu placed herself in danger to expose Pengulu and draw out Kenichi's true strength.
As for Kenichi's ability to see through the Hongou/Jenezad fight. No inconsistencies there: Kenichi's "observational eye" (or inner eye) has been growing better and better (Miu even stated it may have surpassed her own). Plus he has experience watching grappling, karate, a little bit of pencak silat, and LOTS of experience watching Super Masters. But even that wasn't enough. It took his master Sakaki to teach him how to see the fight properly.
Maybe that silat sword-user doesn't have the same level of experience with a wide range of techniques that Kenichi has.
@Blakreaper & Lost0: Miu and Kenichi have just been trained differently. Miu uses jumps, high kicks, and acrobatics to almost fly around while Kenichi tends to stick to the ground and focus his strength up and outwards.
Matsuena has created them as counters to each other. Miu is sky and Kenichi is earth. Miu is naturally gifted and Kenichi is not. Miu is Dou and Kenichi is Sei. Miu is well bred and Kenichi is extremely average. Just about everything between Miu and Kenichi is opposite but complementary to each other starting with (heh): Miu is a girl and Kenichi is a boy.
I bring this all up to illustrate that neither one outweighs the other. If you want to use that sort of analogy its more like they BALANCE each other.
And Lost0 I'm not sure that Miu's heart is stronger than Kenichi's. I think the whole reason behind this mess is that, in someways, her heart is weak. After all, this is the second occasion in which she has lost control of her Dou Ki and almost "fallen into darkness" (as the manga puts it). If her heart was stronger (which it might yet become) she wouldn't come so perilously close to the path of asura every time someone important to her gets seriously hurt unexpectedly.
Kenichi on the other hand simply gets more focused and determined (occasional bouts of comedic cowardice aside).
Anyway I digress (and for a while too). My prediction for upcoming chapters: If Hongou Akira survives this he may actually begin slipping ever-so-slightly onto the path of the Katsujin-ken. His grief for Kano Shou and his dedication to the continued survival of disciples (all of them not just his own) is very Katsujin-ken-"ish". That would be the ultimate Ryouzanpaku victory wouldn't it? The conversion of someone from Satsujin-ken? (Of course I think it'll start with a disciple.)
Sorry for the long post.
Its not that i hate Miu i kind of find her to be a pretty boring character for a lead heroine role but whatever. I dislike how Matsuena has attached this like almost omnipotent stigma to her it just gives me the feel that kenichi will never ever be as strong as her, let me put it this way, Ken has gone up against many opponents who's talent far surpassed his but have you noticed something after they were defeated by ken as far as talent and strength in comparison to ken is never mentioned again.
But Miu is revered as like basically this messiah of martial arts, shes just always in the limelight in regards to "ability" in this manga i get that she has multiple years of experience on him and was trained by the elder blah blah. But doesnt it sort of aggravate any of you in the slightest the MC (ken) is basically treated like dog shit all the time and everyone has this mad respect/lust for Miu as far as i know besides kano shes the only character that gets like a little aura around her when she fight (the feathers) i dunno i just find it really unfair and ridiculous not just to ken but every other character this manga gloats on about how the hardest worker will prevail over talent sure miu probably works hard to but let me put it to you this way when ken is one day eventually master and so is miu are people still going to say wow ken is the strongest master ever but he has no talent? its so dumb dude they bring up the talent thing way to much why cant miu just be strong because she was trained by the elder why does it have to come back to her bloodline and such whtever happened to the good old mangas and animes where goku trains with king kai and is strong enough to fight the saiyan prince vegeta. I just feel like all this kuremisago stuff complicates things and makes us the fan base get into this thinking pattern that Miu is really strong and no one can compare to her which is how i feel and it shouldnt be like that i feel that at 470 chapters in with less than 3 yomi disciples to go kenichi should atleast be equal with her but recent chapters have led us to believe thats not true.
Say what you will about ken only having a year and a half of training or whatever this is his manga so obviously hes going to bend reality and do the impossible as do all MC's in shounen manga.
If your asking if i hate miu's fighting style or level i could say to you no i actually really enjoy watching her fights what annoys me is how everyone pails in comparison to her
@BlackReaper Miu legs strength surpasses Kenichi's by a lot. Even a Yami Sword master had stated that her leg power is much more stronger than his (http://www.mangareader.net/337-57978...apter-402.html)
And she couldn't use her special technique because this situation didn't call for it, if she would have tried that move that Pengulan guy( Whatever his name is) would have chopped her legs off !
And @ Deadbear I really do think her heart is stronger than his most of the time. Kenichi can't fight women or children, while Miu can fight anyone without worry about it. I agree that her heart is weak at moments when people that she love are hurt, but I think it's logical. She still young and any young Martial Artist that saw their loved ones get "Killed" or Hurt would fall down asura for a moment. That just shows that she has A LOT of maturing to do.
And @ BlackMidnight I kinda get where your coming from. Miu is slightly overpowered at times when she hardly ever trains, but the part I don't really like is when everyone says how good she is we never get to she her fight against disciples that are on her level. I.E Yomi. I would have really liked if she fought one of them. A really good match to test her skill you have been Miu vs Koukin, or Miu vs Ethan or Rachel. But who knows we might be able to see Rimi vs Miu or Mui vs Chikage still. I don't think it's right that Kenichi always fight Yomi, I think Matsuena is rushing to make Kenichi catch and pass her but then he turns around and give her these random overpowered talents and techniques. But All in all she a good character IMO
@Lost0 I don't know dude, back when I was in highschool I used to squat way more than some of my classmates, but they could still dust me in the 40 yard dash just because someone is faster doesn't necessarily mean they have greater leg power. When I read that reread chapter I feel as if I he's just saying she's faster while making reference to kenichi's leg power that's all, its not like he said her leg power is greater its just she's faster that's what I got from it..
Last edited by BASED Shinigami; April 15, 2012 at 01:07 PM.
@blackmidnight Ok dude guess what, miu has been trained ALL her life and kenichi only year & 1/2 or something like that, how is he going to surpass her in this short period of time. What I think matsuena is gonna do is making kenichi surpass miu little by little, just like kenichi surpassed miu in eyesight power, matsuena's method is mostly annoying but it is gonna make this manga last at least 200 more chapters.
P.S: How much do you think miu improved with her silat training? I mean she was trained by the demon god fist but, is she gonna leave it there? She Is probably right now far more stronger than kenichi, well only if they dont reveal any secret training at ryouzanpaku.
@Lost0 That's a bad example. At that point, Miu hadn't even attacked so how could he compare Kenichi's leg strength with Miu's? The only thing that he was comparing was her speed versus Kenichi's and considering that Miu is much lighter than Kenichi, it's not a valid indicator.
If I had to compare the abilities of their lower body strengths it'd be like this:
Kenichi's lower body strength allows him to maintain his ground at high levels of offensive pressure defensively while offensively can be used to execute a very high damaging but limited array of attacks.
Miu's lower body strength allows her to slip through attacks while providing a wide variety of highly damaging attacks.
As for whose leg strength is higher, I would this:
While Kenichi has the greatest attack in leg power, Miu has a lot more attacks that are powerful in general.
She's the granddaughter of perhaps the greatest martial artist of his time, if she wasn't this talented then it would be an insult to their bloodline. Miu will always be a few steps ahead of Kenichi no matter how hard he trains (like how Vegeta could never surpass Goku in DBZ) due to her own work ethic and amazing talent.
Also vegeta was a sub character so its not the same at all this is kens manga not mius it makes no sense for her to be the strongest from start to finish
Last edited by blackmidnight; April 16, 2012 at 09:33 AM.
@blackmidnight you don't have to be stronger than a person in order to protect them, Kenichi has proved that on multiple occasions when's he's saved her countless times from danger. Unless Miu were to stop practicing martial arts completely he'll never surpass her IMO he'll be close to her level though
I think kenichi will eventually surpass miu but that would still be long after the manga is over IMO. Kenichi has surpassed miu in specific points which would be eyesight power (although we don't know by how much) and physical strength (thanks to akisame making a point of making kenichi a tank). Still, miu has a lifetime of training over kenichi and more talent (both physical and intellectual) in her pinky toe than 100 kenichi's on a good day. Miu keeps growing stronger every day and she certainly will continue to grow. It would make no sense for kenichi to surpass her life's work in little over a year given the context the manga has given (namely kenichi being devoid of a speck of talent or genius and miu having so much of it that it would end world hunger and bring about a worldwide indiscriminate obesity epidemic if it could be used as food). Well, at least the manga makes sense in this regard as the lastest chapters have conclusively proven kenichi barely makes it to fodder against miu (unless the author was trolling us with all the miu sparing kenichi's powerless little life).
And even then he had trouble.
Heck, miu would have had to spare him one more time than necessary if miu had not used his boob-fuu memory cleansing technique (which did not work so he only got boobs).
Miu actually held back during her barrage of attacks to the point where she basically spared his sorry ass talentless life and even then kenichi almost passed out.
Here we see kenichi trying to land a hit on her and failing miserably (I honestly doubt he held back in any form, it would be incoherent with his idea of risking his life to save miu IMO).
And here we see miu yet again using every bit of restrain she has to not rip kenichi's throat out.
I guess it does kinda ultimately depend on how you see it though. I took it that kenichi was enough of a tank to at least survive miu trying her best to not rip him appart, miu is that much stronger than kenichi. If miu had not restrained herself, kenichi would not have lasted more than a few seconds into the fight and he would have died right after boob fuu.
Lol I have a feeling an ensuing argument about how Kenichi wasn't able to go all out against her for various reasons blah blah blah will occur shortly once certain people have read the post above mine. I myself even felt compelled to argue for a second @kkck you're asking for trouble
S.N: I also find Miu to be a very boring generic character, she has very few flaws and she seems too perfect. She would be much more interesting if she couldn't cook all that well, didn't look like a model slowly abandoning her diet, wasn't so thickheaded about Kenichi's feelings etc...she isn't exciting enough for me to fit the role of the main heroine of the story regardless of how well she fights. She irks my eyes and those over sized boobs of hers don't help any; I wish the other female characters like Renka would get more action and character development.
Last edited by BASED Shinigami; April 17, 2012 at 01:04 AM.