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Thread: Three Way Sage Battle

  1. #61
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LnDRash's Avatar
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    Re: Three Way Sage Battle

    With scissors, electric shavers and by summoning barbers.
    Click here for what I consider the definition of "simply brilliant"

    Quote Originally Posted by syx View Post
    He was once a very charismatic, kind, special and inspiring person. LnDRash was a premium brand, now this brand is called LnDTRash!

  2. Like 2 Member(s) likes this post
  3. #62
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity warbandit66's Avatar
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    Re: Three Way Sage Battle

    Quote Originally Posted by LnDRash View Post
    With scissors, electric shavers and by summoning barbers.
    I don't think so, these are no ordinary follicles, oh no... These are chakra infused follicles, they're not going to be defeated by electric shavers or barbers. If Kabuto tries to use 'Hakugeki no Jutsu' Jiraiya can defend against it with 'Needle Jizo' if Naruto attempts to use 'Rasenshuriken' again 'Needle Jizo'. The only thing that I reckon might be able to cut it is 'Kusanagi' and that's sealed along with Orochimaru.
    Jiraiya: His hair are the best

  4. #63
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Three Way Sage Battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Logically, it should last shorter, thus explaining why he needs Ma and Pa. If it lasted longer then five minutes, then he could have fought and ended the battle before it ran out. And they would have to keep track of the balance since they were the ones dumping the natural energy into Jiraiya's system. They would have to know how much to gather in order to actually achieve the balance. And Naruto had Pa right there hitting him and his clones out of it the moment they began to change.
    Ma and pa are also needed so that jiraiya can start sage mode without having to stop mid battle to gather energy. Baritone still needs the benefit of being prepared for his method to be most defective. And where was fukasaku's rod when baritone was beneath the oil stream or when the two climes stayed behind gathering energy? The oil relentlessly forces natural energy into you, baritone didn't need fukasaku saving him, specially those globes who stayed by themselves on the oil gathering energy on the oil. There is no reason to believe ma and pa do any controlling at all given what we have seen.
    Last edited by kkck; April 19, 2012 at 08:40 PM.

  5. #64
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Three Way Sage Battle

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Ma and pa are also needed so that jiraiya can start sage mode without having to stop mid battle to gather energy. Baritone still needs the benefit of being prepared for his method to be most defective. And where was fukasaku's rod when baritone was beneath the oil stream or when the two climes stayed behind gathering energy? The oil relentlessly forces natural energy into you, baritone didn't need fukasaku saving him, specially those globes who stayed by themselves on the oil gathering energy on the oil. There is no reason to believe ma and pa do any controlling at all given what we have seen.
    If his Sage Mode lasted long enough, he wouldn't need to worry about getting back into it before he could finish the fight. And the clones Naruto left behind weren't using the oil to draw in natural energy. Anyway, if Ma and Pa are the ones gathering it, then they would have to be balancing it, since there would be no way for Jiraiya to know the exact amount or anything of what they are drawing in.

  6. #65
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Three Way Sage Battle

    You people are just jealous you don't have JMan's hair... You people are probably bald! Also JMan's hair is like Superman's hair. You can't cut it as it is as strong as steel (MANGA FACT!).

    Edit: spelling :P
    Last edited by xXan; April 20, 2012 at 08:07 AM.

  7. #66
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
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    Re: Three Way Sage Battle

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    You people are just jealous you don't have JMan's hair... You people are probably bold! Also JMan's hair is like Superman's hair. You can't cut it as it is as strong as steel (MANGA FACT!).
    Bald dude, bald.
    Still everyone is jealous of Jiraiya's hair, I bet Rikudou Sennin's first created jutsu was, in fact, Jiraiya's hair jutsu.

    Back on topic

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    If his Sage Mode lasted long enough, he wouldn't need to worry about getting back into it before he could finish the fight. And the clones Naruto left behind weren't using the oil to draw in natural energy. Anyway, if Ma and Pa are the ones gathering it, then they would have to be balancing it, since there would be no way for Jiraiya to know the exact amount or anything of what they are drawing in.
    Jiraiya is the one balancing it, since Fukasaku clearly said that he couldn't control Nature energy well enough, so he turned in that frog/human hybrid.
    Ma and Pa gathers, they stand still on Jiraiya's shoulders, Jiraiya balances it, yet he isn't all that good in it, so he screws up.
    We saw with naruto's clones that you don't need to stay still forever, just the amount necessary to gather nature energy, so it makes sense for them to do jutsu and "move" around.
    Still saying that Jiraiya is perfectly capable to enter sage mode with them isn't even close to the truth, he had to wait a while to summon Ma and Pa, if gather nature energy was so easy for him he would've entered sage mode, swatted the summon and then he would've summoned Ma and Pa, and have unlimited Sage Mode.
    The very fact that he needed to summon Ma and Pa to enter Sage Mode proves that he isn't all that proficent with it without the frogs

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  9. #67
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Three Way Sage Battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    If his Sage Mode lasted long enough, he wouldn't need to worry about getting back into it before he could finish the fight. And the clones Naruto left behind weren't using the oil to draw in natural energy. Anyway, if Ma and Pa are the ones gathering it, then they would have to be balancing it, since there would be no way for Jiraiya to know the exact amount or anything of what they are drawing in.
    Under that logic the oil would have to be sentient for naruto to not have died after bring bathed under it and after he walked out of it. And the issue at hand is not that jiriaya's sage mode in particular did not last long enough, sage mode as a whole does not last that long. That's one of the reasons the toads came up with the fusion thing (other than actually starting sage mode in the middle of a fight).
    http://www.mangareader.net/93-420-13...apter-415.html
    Naruto, without having fukasaki beat him with a stick was able to stay in sage mode. He was under an oilfall which consistently forces with no form of control whatsoever natural energy into him and he was more than perfectly fine. There is no evidence that naruto needed to be hit by fukasaku and even if the guy did it would be pointless as naruto would still be bathed in oil. Its not like we have a shred of evidence to suggest the oil knew how much energy it was sending and was controlling it (in fact, we have no reason to believe it knew anything at all). As far as we know ma and pa could relentlessly throw in natural energy and it would not make a difference to jiraiya.

  10. #68
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Three Way Sage Battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Jiraiya is the one balancing it, since Fukasaku clearly said that he couldn't control Nature energy well enough, so he turned in that frog/human hybrid.
    Ma and Pa gathers, they stand still on Jiraiya's shoulders, Jiraiya balances it, yet he isn't all that good in it, so he screws up.
    We saw with naruto's clones that you don't need to stay still forever, just the amount necessary to gather nature energy, so it makes sense for them to do jutsu and "move" around.
    Still saying that Jiraiya is perfectly capable to enter sage mode with them isn't even close to the truth, he had to wait a while to summon Ma and Pa, if gather nature energy was so easy for him he would've entered sage mode, swatted the summon and then he would've summoned Ma and Pa, and have unlimited Sage Mode.
    The very fact that he needed to summon Ma and Pa to enter Sage Mode proves that he isn't all that proficent with it without the frogs
    But that comment was made with his training in mind, in response to what mastering it would intel. If Jiraiya's the one balancing it, then he would have to have had some way to communicate with them that he needed a certain amount of natural energy to balance in the first place. That's presumably why he needed to summon Ma and Pa before/as he went into Sage Mode.

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Under that logic the oil would have to be sentient for naruto to not have died after bring bathed under it and after he walked out of it. And the issue at hand is not that jiriaya's sage mode in particular did not last long enough, sage mode as a whole does not last that long. That's one of the reasons the toads came up with the fusion thing (other than actually starting sage mode in the middle of a fight).
    http://www.mangareader.net/93-420-13...apter-415.html
    Naruto, without having fukasaki beat him with a stick was able to stay in sage mode. He was under an oilfall which consistently forces with no form of control whatsoever natural energy into him and he was more than perfectly fine. There is no evidence that naruto needed to be hit by fukasaku and even if the guy did it would be pointless as naruto would still be bathed in oil. Its not like we have a shred of evidence to suggest the oil knew how much energy it was sending and was controlling it (in fact, we have no reason to believe it knew anything at all). As far as we know ma and pa could relentlessly throw in natural energy and it would not make a difference to jiraiya.
    The oil only makes it much easier to draw in natural energy, Naruto is still the one who had to do the balancing. Thus the reason it took him time to arrive at the point where he could use the oil without instantly transforming and needing the aid of Pa's stick which could knock the natural energy out of him. And the mechanics of Sage Mode says that they couldn't simply throw a bunch of natural energy at Jiraiya without knowing how much physical and spiritual energy Jiraiya possessed already.

  11. #69
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Three Way Sage Battle

    I never said naruto did not have to do the balancing, in fact that was my hole point. The oil does not just make it easier, it acts as a magnet and attracks natural energy to naruto. Thats why he goes into sage mode when in contact with it, if it only made it easier to draw it would imply naruto is the one doing it which not only was never said but goes against everything we saw in the manga. Naruto needed to have natural energy knocked out of him only while he had trouble balancing it. Once he learned how to balance it there was no need whatsoever for fukasaku to do such a thing anymore.Also, the explanation of sage mode plainly does not say that.

  12. #70
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Three Way Sage Battle

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I never said naruto did not have to do the balancing, in fact that was my hole point. The oil does not just make it easier, it acts as a magnet and attracks natural energy to naruto. Thats why he goes into sage mode when in contact with it, if it only made it easier to draw it would imply naruto is the one doing it which not only was never said but goes against everything we saw in the manga. Naruto needed to have natural energy knocked out of him only while he had trouble balancing it. Once he learned how to balance it there was no need whatsoever for fukasaku to do such a thing anymore.Also, the explanation of sage mode plainly does not say that.
    The oil makes it so that the user's skin develops the ability to draw in natural energy. My point is, that the dealings with the natural energy like balancing has to be done by the user. The mechanics state that too much natural energy will turn him into a toad. Ma and Pa simply throwing a bunch of natural energy into Jiraiya with no way to measure that it's the right amount to allow balance to be achieved would pretty much be risking Jiraiya becoming a toad everytime they did it.

  13. #71
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Three Way Sage Battle

    The whole point of the oil was to accelerate the training so that the trainee can learn to feel natural energy faster. This is done because the trainee has a bunch of it forced into him. More so, the manga pretty much explicitely shows us that the oil training does not in fact teach the trainee how to draw in natural energy. Naruto even had to do a different training altogether for that after learning how to enter sage mode with the old. If simply having too much natural energy would hurt a sage there is no reason for naruto to have been able to survive for a second under the oilfall regardless of the circumstances. In fact, if what you are proposing is in any form true any form of sage mode would be plain impossible using the oil however we clearly saw naruto balancing natural energy with sage mode under an oilfall.

  14. #72
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Three Way Sage Battle

    Pa mentioned how the oil was also use to adapt the trainee to what the feeling of drawing natural energy felt like, so that they would be able to pull it in eventually without the oil. The oil was shown to teach how to sense it and use it. Regardless, we were told multiple times having too much natural energy was dangerous and even saw the results of it being taken in without balance with Hungry Path. And Naruto wasn't under the waterfall, he was in front of it.

  15. #73
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Three Way Sage Battle

    Take a good look at that link, you can clearly see the oil splashing from naruto's back. Heck, after jumping out of the top of the oil we clearly see naruto completely covered in oil. I never said the oil was used for anything but learning how to sense and use natural energy however the actual learning of absorbing natural energy is a different independent process from the oil part. I am not saying there is no risk to absorbing natural energy however the risk does not seem to apply to sages to a great degree to say the least. The oil never stops forcing natural energy into the body of whoever comes in contact with it, there is no evidence whatsoever to the contrary however people who know how to handle natural energy can handle it based on what we saw with naruto. Its not like actually controlling natural energy is such a demanding process once you get the hang on it either, when naruto went 6 tails against pain his clone disappeared and naruto apparently went hermit mode without even being aware of it.

  16. #74
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Three Way Sage Battle

    I see the oil splashing on his back, which is why I said he was sitting in front of it, not under it. If he was under it, then it should be splashing on top of his head and shoulders, not his back. The gathering natural energy can't be done until they learn what natural energy feels like and can actually sense it, which is why the oil training came first and the oil doesn't seem to continuously draw in natural energy, but a certain amount given that we see Naruto use it and the focus on drawing it in. Naruto going into Sage Mode after the transformation is strange, but it's possible the fact that the Kyuubi's chakra is in a separate area then his own and the natural energy could have play a part in it.

  17. #75
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Three Way Sage Battle

    @kkck

    Naruto whent SM after he lost the clones as he had the time to sit on the moon and concentrate(the clones going poof at the mountain would not help him with that as he first needs to summon them there with the scrool). Also controlling natural energy is the hard part that is limiting Naruto to 3 clones when other clones do it, the part that turns you into a frog statue and the part that JMan goes frog a little as he is not that good at it.

    Remember what happened to Pein when Naruto was sending him constant supply of sage chakra? He whent statue mode.... To much of that would turn you into a statue no matter who you are. If someone would get (even Naruto or any other SM user) a continous supply of nature chakra they would go into frog statue mode eventualy as they would not have enough of there own chakra to balance it. You need to be carefull how much chakra you get as to much and you are done as you don't have enough stamina/your chakra to balance it out. The oil probably allows you to get nature energy in small enough quantities. Ma/Pa defenetly needs to monitor JMan and see how much he needs or send it in small enough quantities so they would not risk turning JMan into a statue.

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