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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
---------- Post added at 11:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 PM ----------
I feel for the many posters who dislike the chapter. It must be annoying to beat off to the Uchiha and then get thrown into backstory of a non-Uchiha so close to climax.
I do find something funny though. The majority of posters are convinced Kabuto will lose even though the Uchihas have been on the defense the majority of the fight. I ask why do you think it's a guarantee that Kabuto will lose? I'll ask and many of the posters will claim it has nothing to do with Uchiha fandom.
I said before that Kabuto will go on because he made a challenge to Naruto and he mirrors Naruto with his own Sage Mode. Furthermore he has shown that he has a hand in the plan that Edo Madara has in mind. Many have said that doesn't prove he'll survive.
So, I'll ask: What do you posters have to justify Sasuke getting out of this fight alive? Let's ignore the fact that you'll cry and moan if Sasuke is captured/dies. Kishi doesn't necessarily let the popularity of the characters dictate how the story progresses (if he did, he probably wouldn't have killed off Jiraiya).
-Sasuke has EMS. And? We already have a more experienced EMS user fighting. Let's not forget said EMS user has the Rinnegan as well.
-Sasuke said he wanted to fight Naruto. And? Kabuto said the same thing.
-Sasuke is one of the major characters. And? Kabuto is one of the major villains.
-Sasuke still has a lot to add to the story. LOL not really. We're in the middle of a war in the story and Sasuke won't add much. The Alliance could care less about his nonsense and he's not going to add much to Tobi/Kabuto's side of the war seeing as we already have Tobi AND Edo Madara fighting. Sasuke's abilities does not compare to what they are doing on the battlefield.
If anything Kabuto has more to add to the story. He is one of the major villains. He still has a role in Tobi/Madara's plan. He's had the upper hand in the fight so far (even though Kabuto is trying to capture Sasuke, not kill him). Him being around keeps one of the big fights going. Contrary to what many might believe, Kishi won't end the Kage fight with Madara disappeared due to Edo Tensei ending. He would make Madara's defeat definite. He wouldn't leave open the question "Hey, could the good guys really beat him?" That would make the good guys seem so incredibly pathetic even if they are Kages.
The brothers could just amaterasu his ass. They've been on the defence while Itachi charges up his izanami.
@plyr I'm a sasuke hater, I think the uchiha get waaay too much credit and even in death the clan needs to be taken down a peg or two, but still, I think kabuto is done for regardless I don't particularly like it, especially because we haven't seen him exchanging jutsu very much (where is his big direct damage spell? I suppose Edo tensei and relying on others while being sneaky will always be his "that justu") but the series really feels like it's close to ending.
I suspect that the way it will go is that the uchiha bros. (mario eat your heart out) will defeat kabuto, perhaps will izanami possessing kabuto, or more poetically erasing him from history, ending edo tensei, saving the gokage from madara and his clones, and then all there would be left is naruto+kirabi+kakashi+gai vs tobi+heretical statue, which would probably end in a dramatic loss for naruto's side, tobi extracting the nine tails, reviving the juubii, and then the final confrontation between tobi and naruto, with him revealing his identity, and naruto finishing him off, sealing away the juubii forever, and that's the series.
Due to the way this seems to be setting up I doubt this will end in anything other than kabuto being defeated by the uchiha, or perhaps surviving with his tensei out of commission and tobi finishing him off cruelly. Plot-wise kabuto has served his purpose, and I am sad that he was not a more complex character, but all good things have to end sometime.
oh and as an aside, ichigo23, they cannot use amaterasu because kabuto would die if he was incinerated, and if he dies then the edo tensei will never end, the zombies will just do as ordered forever. Likewise tsukiomi is out since kabuto is keeping his eyes shut and using his snake's acute other senses as well as his senjutsu sensing abilities to determine their location and actions.
Last edited by winterwyrm; May 01, 2012 at 12:13 PM.
1. He took off his cloak. There is no better indication that his death is right around the corner.Quote:
2. He's fighting Sauske. Since the entire story is oriented around Naruto and Sauske as the main characters, it is unthinkable that Kishi would have Kabuto kill Sauske at this point in time.
3. He's fighting Itachi. Itachi has never lost a fight in the whole manga (Sauske doesn't count).
4. He's having a flashback. It is standard manga practice when someone is about to die for them to have a big-@$$ flashback that gives thier tragic history before they plotz.
All the indications are Kabuto is over. I suppose it is possible for him to somehow escape the fight alive, but to actually beat Sauske? No way. I'm no Sauske fan. I want to see Sauske crushed to within an inch of his life and totally embarrassed as he finally realizes just how stupid, arrogant, and clueless he is. But it just isn't going to happen.
1. Konan died without taking off her cloak so that hoax theory is invalid.
2. The story is focused on Naruto, not Naruto and Sasuke. You never go very long without Naruto in the story but we have gone long without Sasuke being relevant.
3. Itachi has had a couple fights. Furthermore if Itachi wasn't a zombie, he'd already been mutilated and killed in this fight. This point isn't even a hoax theory. Just some Itachi fandom.
4. When Orochimau was finally taken down by Itachi, I don't remember him having any flashback so again this point is invalid.
If I were to tell you now that Sasuke is going to lose, what would you say to defend?
-He's not the main character. The story isn't called "Sasuke".
-He is currently losing a fight in which he has an undead partner and his enemy isn't trying to kill him.
Besides all the fan-created hoax theories about losing the cloak meaning this and Sasuke has plot protection and yata yata yata, what valid reason could you get to defend my claim that Sasuke would lose or even die. I'm not saying that is what's going to happen. I'm just saying give me a valid reason. We know Naruto isn't going to die because he is THE main character.
Also, since when has a flashback signal death when the person having the flashback occurs when that person is winning and so far has been virtually untouched? LOL
Last edited by Plyr88; May 01, 2012 at 01:44 PM.
You don't have to be an Uchiha fanboy to see that the entirety of part 2 has been building up to some sort of conflicts between Naruto and Sasuke. Sasuke still has a role to play in the manga, Kabuto has completed his role. The majority of his ET soldiers have been sealed, he's shown his 'that jutsu', he even took off his cloak and made an arrogant speech. What more do you need? The only thing Kabuto is good for now is giving Sasuke experience fighting against sage mode, and displaying what happens when someone uses Izanami on you.
Hopefully you can finish beating off to this flashback before it ends and those pesky Uchiha bros come in and ruin everything with their eye hax
1/ One can argue that Konan was not among the vilains anymore when she died, and no "good" characters all died without their cloack. But well, aside semi-jokes, I don't care about this theory.
2/Your point makes me remember an interview by Kishi where he was contradicting you, I believe. This manga is all (or essentialy) about Naruto and Sasuke (and the philo behind). Well, to verify.
3/If Itachi wasn't a zombie and just ressurected, Kishi wouldn't put him in this bad situation in the first place, since he is supposed to run Izanami. Worse, despite being a fact now, it felt forced.
4/The essential doesn't change with Orochimaru, he has been taken out, his reappearance lasted a few seconds to the point he brought nothing more to the plot as a living character.
Last edited by Gats; May 01, 2012 at 02:07 PM.
Kishi is going to be like: "Yes! Build up Kabuto with all these powers and influence in the war....annnnnnd we kill him now."
That would also mean Kishi is going: "Yes! Yes! Build up Madara! EMS! Rinnegan! Mokuton! Give it all to him! Yes! I'll also introduce that Madara knows the secret of Tobi and is actually in on his plan!! Yes! Annnnnd....we strike Madara from the story without even making him get defeated. Yea, his sole purpose is actually just to make the Kages look bad and leave. Yep, sounds good to me."
Kishi: Yea, I'm build up Sasuke and his EMS because that will be the REAL spectacle. Yea, even though I'm showcasing Madara's EMS, Rinnegan and Mokuton skills against the best 5-man squad in the story, I'm sure Sasuke's little tricks with EMS alone with be a fantastic follow-up! Genius! Genius!!
LOL, really? You guys thinking this...don't try to write stories. They'll just be bad. Just sayin'
---------- Post added at 03:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:03 PM ----------
1. There are no villains in this story, actual. I think that's obvious now. There are characters with conflicting views. (Hidan also didn't take off his cloak)
2. It's clearly not about these two, but just Naruto. He's the centerpiece. If Naruto dies now, the story heads into a downward spiral (especially since the war is to protect him). If Sasuke dies now, it's like okay LOL, everything in the story goes on almost as if nothing changed.
3. I'm sure you know what Kishi has in mind for the story, right? LOL
4. Orochimaru never had a big flashback before being defeated, so...
1) First and foremost, there is no way on Rikudou's Green Earth in the Narutoverse that anyone is going to defeat Edo Madara. I don't care if every last ninja suited up to fight him, he'd still kick their asses. He's so overpowered it's not even funny, and he literally has no limits. He just cloned himself 15 times and mocked the Kages by asking if he should have them use Sussano enough. So, rightfully so, Edo Tensei has to be canceled and Kabtuo has to be defeated in order for Madara to be put down.
2) This manga is coming to a close. Kabuto came in as nothing more than a plot device to re-introduce Edo Tensei. Naruto and Sasuke have to come head to head eventually, the Juubi has to be revived, and the Moon's Eye Plan has to be set in motion. Not to mention, Naruto is fighting Tobi right now. Where exactly do you see time for Naruto and Kabuto to have a fight, more so how would it be relevant?
3) Itachi just brought out Izanami a new technique we have never seen before. What would be the point of showing us this technique that Kabuto knows nothing about if Kabuto is going to escape/counter it?
4) Sasuke is key to Tobi's plans as he's been trying to have him and Naruto kill each other for a while now. He isn't about to let Kabuto take Sasuke from him.
5) Kabuto's massive power boost is suppose to give Sasuke a taste of what Naruto is capable of. In case you haven't noticed, Sasuke has fought a Jinchurki (Bee), an insanely fast ninja (Raikage) and now a ninja with Sage Mode who is immune to genjutsu (Kabuto). Naruto is not only a Junchuriki, but he is insanely fast, has Sage Mode, and thanks to his new pact with the Kyuubi, is now able to break out of any genjutsu. All these fights for Sasuke are preparation for when he fights Naruto.
As for you doubting Sasuke's importance, I advise you to re-read the manga. He is the second most shown character in the entire manga, the second most important in a lot of senses, and the ABSOLUTE most important to the Main character and protagonist. Sasuke and Naruto's rivalry is at the core of the entire manga, them fighting is much more important than any fight in the entire manga.
And what exactly does Kabuto have to offer? He's a copy of another villain in Orochimaru with the exact same goals. Again, he was a plot device used in order to reintroduce all these dead characters through Edo Tensei. You notice thus far the only things Kabuto has done right were capture Tenzou and Anko? Aside from Madara, all of his summons have accomplished jack shit. He himself would already be dead if it wasn't for the fact Sasuke and Itachi can't outright kill him due to having to stop Edo Tensei first.
Sasuke can't be killed because we assume him to be Naruto's final enemy. It's like assuming Pain would be killed by Jiraiya. Sasuke may be captured, but he won't be killed before fighting Naruto. If he is... oh well.
While Kabuto may go on, it's hard to believe that considering he's not seen as the ultimate final opponent that Tobi and Sasuke have been viewed as. of course, we all thought Orochimaru, Itachi, and Pain (at least I did) would be seen as such, and look what happened.
1/If you take this way, let's call them antagonists. Hidan just had his cloack torn apart...Well as I said, I don't care about that.
2/ If Sasuke dies as it is now, Naruto would not be Hokage as he is now (unless somene makes him change his mind), he said that himself : how can he be Hokage if he can't protect his friend ? Naruto would ultimately fail, just keeping the character alive doesn't have to keep the story (and the "morality" behind) as Kishi would want. Of course, unless Kishi has another plan. But as far as I read, Sasuke is Naruto's fuel.
3/The point is to use Izanami, right ? So what's the point to incapacitate a living Itachi at this point ? Simple logic. Of course, based on what we have for now. Maybe Kishi planned the failure of Izanagi ? etc
4/So what ? He had a flashback which makes a point about what he is now, nonetheless. Who cares about the length if the essence of the message is here
Last edited by Gats; May 01, 2012 at 02:30 PM.
She'd been talk-no-jutsu'd into being a disciple of Naruto, therefore the Akatsuki cloak-rule does not apply to her as she herself said, "I'm done with Akatsuki." Tobi called her a "former" Akatsuki, so that's pretty much that. Regardless, my tongue was planted firmly in cheek regarding the cloak rule. I don't seriously think Kishi has any sort of cloak rule for killing off the Akatsuki. However, it is pretty undeniable that most of the Akatsuki die pretty soon after the cloak flies off. Hidan was the only exception as he kept his robe (albiet torn) right up to the point where he got blown up - but since he isn't dead yet either it doesn't quite break the rule...Quote:
Naruto is the main character, that is true. But Sauske is also one of the main focuses of the story, and so while Naruto is like the "Sun" of the story, Sauske is definitely the "Moon". Naruto's main motivation is Sauske, sauske, sauske. He's his rival, his friend, his motivation, and his goal. A solid 33% to 49% chunk of the manga is dedicated to Sauske-specific story arcs. To say Sauske is such a minor character that he is currently expendible to Kabuto is patently absurd.Quote:
My point was not refuted. Itachi has never been beaten. If "Ifs" and "Buts" were candy and nuts then we'd all have a Merry Christmas. I'm no 'fan' of Itachi either. I always thought his victories were pretty cheap plot no-jutsus. But there's no denying the facts that he's never once been defeated except the one time he allowed Sauske to win on purpose.Quote:
Because his actual 'defeat' was by Sauske, at which point he DID have a flashback. But I'm not convinced we've seen the last of Orochimaru yet. As you say, he's kind of been robbed of a real final fight. I think Kabuto's inevitable defeat is simply a precursor to Orochimaru coming back.Quote:
Nuthin. If that's your opinion then by all means enjoy it. My opinion is that you're in for a dissappointment, but Kishi can do whatever he wants. Whatever happens though, Sauske isn't going down here. That's a given. The 'valid reason' is that the a huge portion of the story is oriented around Sauske and his desire to destroy the Leaf / confront Naruto. If Sauske goes down here then pretty much the entire manga has been one huge troll. The story is about Naruto, sure. But Naruto's entire existence is focused on Sauske... Sauske is his 'rival', his 'promise' was about Sauske, he wants to 'save' Sauske, he's a 'fool' for Sauske, he is Sauske's 'friend', yadda yadda yadda. And the bad guys are always focused on Sauske too... Orochimaru wants Sauske to fulfill HIS plan... Now Kabuto wants Sauske to fulfill HIS plan... Tobi wants Sauske to fulfill HIS plan... blah blah blah blah blah. So now you think Kishi's going to just throw away 570+ chapters of that? Believe it if you like, but I see absolutely zero evidence or justification for it.Quote:
Last edited by Invader; May 01, 2012 at 02:41 PM.
Chapter this week? Any hopes?