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Translations: Bleach 595 (2)
Hm - I was of the opposite opinion. I think he's changed the LEAST. He started off as a mysterious, unknown, smarmy, manipulative Orochimaru flunky. And today he's a mysterious, smarmy, manipulative Orochimaru acolyte. Yeah he's powered up, but as far as his general attitude, demeanor, and role as a 'manipulator' goes he is still kind of the same. In the Chunin exams he walked away with that knowing smirk on his face, and in the "Crush the Leaf" plan he was running around pulling the strings everywhere, and when Naruto chased down Tsunade he was still up to his tricks. I don't see him as having changed much (powerups aside).Quote:
Seeing more and more of how Orochimaru was able to do whatever he wanted with experiments, DNA, cloning and etc. it just makes it seem really stupid that Kishi made it so that he was only after Itachi and Sasuke while "alive". Yeah i get that plot-wise it made sense and that since then Kishi has change the direction of the manga in terms of now making it all about Uchiha and Senju. But Orochimaru clearly possessed both the knowledge and the scientific skills to pull off insane things. For example it makes no sense that Orochimaru wouldn't have known that Yamato survived the experiments give the fact that Orochimaru left after 16 years ago and Yamato is currently 26. So there was a 10 year period where Yamato survived and grew up with Hashirama's DNA yet Orochimaru never knew? Yeah right. Then there is the fact that he found out about Tobi's plans, Zetsu, the clones and etc. He could have taken DNA from Zetsu and played around with Hashirama's DNA even more.
Then of course there is the question of why didn't he ever attempt to clone an Uchiha? He clearly had free reign over any experiments he wanted and possessed unlimited resources. But somehow the Uchiha bodies he desired for he never attempted to clone or after doing so improve upon through science. And i'm sure if he had attempted something like that we would have known about it by now. Especially since we saw that he did do Senju and Uchiha hybrid experiments with Danzo's arm. The Bottom line is that the guy could have created a Senju and Uchiha hybrid body which could have produced the Rinnegan for himself, or something very close to it. Everyone is so desperately chasing after the Rinnegan and Rikudo Sennin's powers, and here was Orochimaru who had the blueprints and means to create such a power right in front of him and never did it. Instead Kishi made it so that Orochimaru ignored all of that and stupidly kept on chasing after the Sharingan.
You full of questions but the answer is simple Orochimaru wanted a pure Uchiha and who knows how long it would have taken him to make a clone, there is no indication in the manga that cloning was perfectly possible and besides not every Uchiha had what it takes to awaken the Mangekyou Sharingan which Orochimaru wanted, cause I don't see the reason why when he was in Root he didn't take some of the sharingan eyes Danzo had on his right arm.
As for yamato, its orichimaru only who said that one of the child survive, he was amazed seeing that he is all grown up (may be amazed that no side effects are to be seen)...
About the cloning thing, seriously.. evryone was trying to clone Harashima the whole time..why not uchiha... The reason is uchiha is all about sharinghan and senju about the body ... Also its harishima's DNA that made the cloning possible in the first place... how many else clones we have seen.... I don't think kishi has not thought of it and just left it to the user's discretion... On what basis you say that orichimaru can clone anyone he wants??? Its unique to Harashima's DNA...
I wrote this in last chapter discussion… By my calculations back then, Orochimaru had meat Kabuto only after quitting Akatsuki, now with this chapter that was proved wrong… But, let’s see one thing:Quote:
What I know for sure is:
41 – Birth of Kabuto;
43 – Birth of Itachi (yes, according to the Databook, Itachi is younger than Kabuto);
47 – Minato is awarded as the 4th Hokage;
48 – Attack of Kyuubi, birth of Naruto, and death of Minato, 4th Hokage;
53 – Itachi is promoted to Chuuning, and enters Ambu 6 months later. I estimate that it’s around this time that he enters Akatsuki, because at the end of part 1 it is mentioned that all akatsuki wasn’t together for 7 years, and it coincides with this time.
56 – 3 years have passed and Itachi, now with 13 decimates his entire clan, awakens his Mangekyou Sharingan, and leaves Konoha.
I don’t know when he and Orochimaru fought, but I thought it was before this time, also when Chyo and Sasori clashed she said that Sandaime Kazekage was missing for at least 10 years, which would make his disapearence around this time, which would make sence if Sasori had the help of Orochimaru. After reading this weaks chapter, it’s stated that Orochimaru left the village after he met Kabuto, so from the start, Kabuto could be around 3 or 4 (and not 5 as I said before) when he met Mother (year 44/45), 3 years pass and he then meets Orochimaru, leaves the orphanage and Joins Root (year 47/48, which makes him 6 or 7 years old), 5 years pass and after spying on all the remaining 4 villages, he joins Orochimaru (year 52/53) with 11/12 years old. The problem is that we have Kabuto healing people with just 6 or 7 years… Too premature, even for such a genius, but could be if we remember that Kakashi was Chuunin with only 6, so… But it also conflicts with the notion that Orochimaru left the village many years ago, and by this calculations, he would’ve remained in Konoha until long after Kyuuvy attacked Konoha, and I was under the impression that he left the village shortly after his attack (one year, 2 years tops). Could it be that Orochimaru entered Akatsuki under the command of Danzou? Could it be that he pretended to leave Konoha, but still remained to work under Danzo’s commands? Did he fooled Danzo as well as he fooled Sarutobi, and only used Danzo to accomplish his own goals? Also, from this last chapter, Kabuto seem older than just 11/12, something’s not right… What do you think?
I think Orochimaru wanted it all for himself. ETing Madara is one thing for Kabuto, but the immortality jutsu, the quest for the sharingan - maybe it was always supposed to be about the rinnegan and Orochimaru wanting it all for himself. At least Kishimoto left that door open & had that (IMO) great foresight. But again... this is just a theory. . I agree with what you're saying... there are so many inconsistencies. Trying to make heads/tails of it, I don't know.
Either way, I kind of like a consistency with Orochimaru's character, and that consistency being curiosity. he had it in part one, and now. But again I agree... I think the danger is that the more genius Orochimaru looks now, the more questionable some of the older chapters can become.
---------- Post added at 07:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:36 AM ----------
Regarding Root.... so much for the tongue seal... lol Granted, Orochimaru is one thing but I wonder if Orochimaru was 'that guy' that made it so that his former colleagues would need it. You know, kind of like how at work there's the one idiot that ruins things for everyone else.
He was trying to recreate that power- the same way that Madara did. Orochimaru and Kabuto probably found out about a potential reason to fuse the two different gene pools when they dissected Madara's remains and discovered the crammed in portions of Hashirama's DNA. It's not hard to imagine Oro also knowing about the MS and its requirements and relation to Madara, and what with the massacre... well, that left Oro with two options. The first option emphatically did not go so well (Itachi), so he spent the rest of his life trying the second. With one of the last living Uchiha brothers, he could start on his path to obtaining whatever power that Uchiha Madara struggled to get before death.Quote:
If he sat around and tried to clone Uchihas until he got 1) compatible brothers who 2) both made besties with chumps they could kill to obtain the MS..... then took one of them over with Fushi Tensei to take the other's eyes..... you see, it adds about 15 years of work to his grand plan, a "Step 0" if you will. At least with the Sasuke thing he could just stay stuck on Step 1 until being sent to genjutsu hell. He didn't have the pieces because he never got Sasuke, lol. He just stupidly gave him the power to rebel. Kinda like Ghost Rider.
---------- Post added at 10:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 AM ----------
To put it simply I think Kishi must be either tired or lazy about the manga thus he wants to end it as soon as he possibly can or something along those lines.
The Story in Naruto as been going on for a while now (10yrs?) and when a story is on for that long, there's a tendency for some inconsistencies.
This is why I believe he took out Danzo and Orochimaru and soon I believe Kabuto might be next.
The character's listed above are geniuses who carry countless potentials or possibilities that could easily change the course of the manga which might have been against what Kishi initially planned, so Kishi must be careful not to obstruct or hinder the flow in the manga.
In hindsight, wiht these last few chapters Sandaime was like the ignorant yet benevolent governor or ruler while Danzou was the mafia boss. True yin and yang of the village, dark and light - I think it works. But it's just interesting how... well... ever since Danzou's been built as a parriah I've kind of gotten more interested in his character. That guy's done some nasty $ht and created some real terorrists (for lack of better words). He was there when Hanzou forced the death of Yahiko & Nagato went ape-sh!t, Orochimaru was there when he was ball-busting an orphanage for mafia like 'protection money', and he was well aware of the Uchiha massacre, Tobi, etc. etc. The more I think about it, the funnier it is. Everyone, Danzou blackmailed an orphanage. Think about that. lol
Hey - one other thing that this keeps reminding me of, is the mission he sent Sai on and when he provided Orochimaru with a book of individuals within Anbu. I wouldn't have at all been surprised then if in some way, in the first 'Crush the Leaf' of Orochimaru's, that Orochimaru had a side deal with Danzou so that Danzou would become Hokage of 'whatever's left'. Just like Danzou let Pain run amock so he could revel in the leftover slop.
I mean... what an @$$hole! The only thing he wasn't doing that I'm aware of is peddling booze & prostitution through the village and getting kids hooked on smoking. And for all I know, maybe he was.
Last edited by jalix; May 03, 2012 at 10:56 AM.
about what orochimaru was draining before kabuto showed us how he transplanted oro's body in himself, a lot of us agree that it may be hashirama's cells (and oro did possess his dna and maybe the whole body). what if he wanted to have his cells to strengthen the sharingan,awakening so the rinnegan?
I believe thinking about the characters age won't take us anywhere because it simply can't be explained.
My concern right now is if next chapter there will be more flashbacks..