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Thread: If Itachi was the Godaime Hokage....

  1. #166
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    Re: If Itachi was the Godaime Hokage....

    Where does it say he was 18? Doesn't look any older then the current Rookies, and they're all around 16. Despite being considered young, Minato was still made Hokage, right? Sarutobi seemingly became Hokage overnight, same with Gaara in becoming Kazekage. And Itachi is hardly lacking in charisma. Heck, Itachi had Kisame following his lead and Kisame's a criminal.

  2. #167
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
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    Re: If Itachi was the Godaime Hokage....

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Where does it say he was 18? Doesn't look any older then the current Rookies, and they're all around 16. Despite being considered young, Minato was still made Hokage, right? Sarutobi seemingly became Hokage overnight, same with Gaara in becoming Kazekage. And Itachi is hardly lacking in charisma. Heck, Itachi had Kisame following his lead and Kisame's a criminal.
    It is still more than 13, and Yondaime was on his mid-twenties when he was made Hokage.
    Hiruzen was groomed since he was little, remember the flashback he had when fighting Oro?

    As for Itachi's charisma, Kisame didn't follow him for it, or rather only for it.
    They shared a friendship, since they had a similar background and all, and respected each other as human beings. Itachi said so himself in recent chapters that he was pretty similar to Kabuto in the first place

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    Re: If Itachi was the Godaime Hokage....

    In spite of his younger age, Itachi had already accomplished more then them. There's not anything suggesting there's an age limit on who could be chosen nor for it to matter when said ninja has accomplished the same feats as much older ninjas. Why would his age matter?

    The point is that Itachi showed the ability to get someone who was shown lacking trust in the world to become his friend and follow his lead, even in questionable situations. And Itachi becoming disenfranchised doesn't seem like it happen until after the massacre, else he obviously wouldn't have recognized Tobi's strength.

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    Re: If Itachi was the Godaime Hokage....

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    In spite of his younger age, Itachi had already accomplished more then them. There's not anything suggesting there's an age limit on who could be chosen nor for it to matter when said ninja has accomplished the same feats as much older ninjas. Why would his age matter?

    The point is that Itachi showed the ability to get someone who was shown lacking trust in the world to become his friend and follow his lead, even in questionable situations. And Itachi becoming disenfranchised doesn't seem like it happen until after the massacre, else he obviously wouldn't have recognized Tobi's strength.
    Itachi accomplished at 13 more than two sannins, the hero of the Third War and a Jounin fighting said war at the same age?
    No, just no.
    Hell if you see his mission record Itachi has less or the same S rank mission than Rock Lee, which has more A rank.

    Also Kisame didn't follow Itachi, they were partners and respected each other ( Kisame fought the 4 tails because he wanted to, in spite of what Itachi wanted. Hell at their introduction he pretty much warned him not to get in his way ), of course generally what Itachi said was followed, since obviously he was the more intelligent and collected of the two.
    If he himself said that upon reaching death he truly discovered himself, why then would he be a great Hokage if he himself admitted to be full of flaws?

  5. #170
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    Re: If Itachi was the Godaime Hokage....

    I was referring to Gaara and young Sarutobi, but let's talk about the others. What exactly did Tsunade accomplish that makes her better suited? Surviving Hanzou with the other two Sannins? Healing a bunch of people during the war? Abandoning Konoha for more then a decade? Jiraiya? Pretty much similar to Tsunade in the surviving Hanzou and leaving the village over several years to wander about. What about Kakashi? Completing an important mission and joining Anbu? Where exactly is Itachi lacking when compared to some of the people chosen for Hokage? Strength? We already know that Itachi was strong enough to be considered enough to handle the entire Uchiha clan and that Orochimaru later considered him impossible to great, despite having access to what he believed were the three former Hokages. Reputation? Itachi was already well known in Konoha even before he preformed the massacre. Leadership? His father was the leader of their clan and Itachi was his oldest, meaning Itachi would have had first hand experience in the matter. In addition, Itachi was chosen for Anbu at the age of 11, freakin' 11 years old. Anbu is the top tier ninjas, personally picked by the Hokage to preform special missions under his direct order. He then became a captain, a position gained by merit and experience. Where exactly was the 13 year old Itachi lacking compared to the others?

    Kisame did follow Itachi. In their given missions, he deferred to Itachi's orders. Itachi tells him not to fight, he doesn't fight. Itachi tells him to hang back, he hung back. Itachi tells him to run, he ran, even if he didn't see a reason for it. Kisame fought the Yonbi because that was his target. And you speak as if a Hokage can't have flaws. Tsunade, Jiraiya, Kakashi, and Danzo all had flaws. Heck, Sarutobi had flaws that lead directly to the village being attacked and his own death. Even Minato admitted failure in his attempts to change the system. So let's not act as if the Hokage mush be this flawless being.

  6. #171
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    Re: If Itachi was the Godaime Hokage....

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    I was referring to Gaara and young Sarutobi, but let's talk about the others. What exactly did Tsunade accomplish that makes her better suited? Surviving Hanzou with the other two Sannins? Healing a bunch of people during the war? Abandoning Konoha for more then a decade? Jiraiya? Pretty much similar to Tsunade in the surviving Hanzou and leaving the village over several years to wander about. What about Kakashi? Completing an important mission and joining Anbu? Where exactly is Itachi lacking when compared to some of the people chosen for Hokage? Strength? We already know that Itachi was strong enough to be considered enough to handle the entire Uchiha clan and that Orochimaru later considered him impossible to great, despite having access to what he believed were the three former Hokages. Reputation? Itachi was already well known in Konoha even before he preformed the massacre. Leadership? His father was the leader of their clan and Itachi was his oldest, meaning Itachi would have had first hand experience in the matter. In addition, Itachi was chosen for Anbu at the age of 11, freakin' 11 years old. Anbu is the top tier ninjas, personally picked by the Hokage to preform special missions under his direct order. He then became a captain, a position gained by merit and experience. Where exactly was the 13 year old Itachi lacking compared to the others?
    We really don't know about Jiraiya and Tsunade's accomplishments outside the war they fought and the actual timeline, what we know is that Sannins are known world-wide, way more than the Uchiha clan or most others clan/associations.
    Kisame commented that being a Swordman or an Uchiha mattered nothing compared to a Sannin, which actually proves how much weight the title holds. Remember, strenght isn't the only thing that matters, Tsunade almost singlehandedly supported an entire village during the Pein invasion, just to name an accomplishment she did.
    Uchihas aren't well-known as you seem to think, hell Deidara never ever knew Itachi's eyes were the Sharingan, and Zabuza never recognized Sasuke's symbol on his clothes. Uchiha were famous after the massacre, because of it. The only ones that aknowledge the Uchihas are old guys like Chiyo. For the world, Uchihas are a clan just like Hyuugas, Aburames or Akimichis.
    The Sannin title holds immensely more weight, expecially since Jiraiya traveled world-wide and had contacts in all the villages. Tsunade too was known as being the greatest Medic alive. Itachi on the countrary wasn't all that known before the massacre.

    Quote Quote:
    Kisame did follow Itachi. In their given missions, he deferred to Itachi's orders. Itachi tells him not to fight, he doesn't fight. Itachi tells him to hang back, he hung back. Itachi tells him to run, he ran, even if he didn't see a reason for it. Kisame fought the Yonbi because that was his target. And you speak as if a Hokage can't have flaws. Tsunade, Jiraiya, Kakashi, and Danzo all had flaws. Heck, Sarutobi had flaws that lead directly to the village being attacked and his own death. Even Minato admitted failure in his attempts to change the system. So let's not act as if the Hokage mush be this flawless being.
    As I said it was so because Itachi was the more intelligent and cool-headed of the two, don't forget that both responded to Pein, say Kisame screws up, Pein would screw up Kisame.
    With Itachi in charge, the chance of screwing up were far more reduced. Also you're right, Hokage aren't flawless, yet being an already renowed ninja well past the maturity time is way better than an immature ( at least apparently ) 13 years old.
    No one would give command to a 13 years old, even in the shinobi world.
    Suna is a special case since Gaara was already the strongest at 13, and 16 is always better than 13. That is why I said that Itachi could've been groomed for the position since he would've reached an acceptable maturity.
    Like for Yondaime

  7. #172
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    Re: If Itachi was the Godaime Hokage....

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    I was referring to Gaara and young Sarutobi, but let's talk about the others. What exactly did Tsunade accomplish that makes her better suited? Surviving Hanzou with the other two Sannins? Healing a bunch of people during the war? Abandoning Konoha for more then a decade? Jiraiya? Pretty much similar to Tsunade in the surviving Hanzou and leaving the village over several years to wander about. What about Kakashi? Completing an important mission and joining Anbu? Where exactly is Itachi lacking when compared to some of the people chosen for Hokage? Strength? We already know that Itachi was strong enough to be considered enough to handle the entire Uchiha clan and that Orochimaru later considered him impossible to great, despite having access to what he believed were the three former Hokages. Reputation? Itachi was already well known in Konoha even before he preformed the massacre. Leadership? His father was the leader of their clan and Itachi was his oldest, meaning Itachi would have had first hand experience in the matter. In addition, Itachi was chosen for Anbu at the age of 11, freakin' 11 years old. Anbu is the top tier ninjas, personally picked by the Hokage to preform special missions under his direct order. He then became a captain, a position gained by merit and experience. Where exactly was the 13 year old Itachi lacking compared to the others?

    Kisame did follow Itachi. In their given missions, he deferred to Itachi's orders. Itachi tells him not to fight, he doesn't fight. Itachi tells him to hang back, he hung back. Itachi tells him to run, he ran, even if he didn't see a reason for it. Kisame fought the Yonbi because that was his target. And you speak as if a Hokage can't have flaws. Tsunade, Jiraiya, Kakashi, and Danzo all had flaws. Heck, Sarutobi had flaws that lead directly to the village being attacked and his own death. Even Minato admitted failure in his attempts to change the system. So let's not act as if the Hokage mush be this flawless being.
    he was an uchiha , I already find out most of readers have same ideas as konoha's elders ....

    Quote Quote:
    We really don't know about Jiraiya and Tsunade's accomplishments outside the war they fought and the actual timeline, what we know is that Sannins are known world-wide, way more than the Uchiha clan or most others clan/associations.
    they were well known because Hanzo gave them a title/surname ...

    and title are useless , Pain was strongest ninja in his era but no one knew him ...

    IMO uchihas didn't need any title , because UCHIHA itself was /is one of the most fearful title/surname in manga .
    their clan name was their title
    Even Raikage didn't dare to send someone to obtaining Sharingan !!
    Last edited by shafagh; May 28, 2012 at 08:23 AM.
    اللهم صل علی محمدا و آل محمد و عجل فرجهم
    ........................................................................................................................................
    آبادی میخانه ز ویرانی ماست .... جمعیت کفر از پریشانی ماست
    اسلام به ذات خود ندارد عیبی ... هر عیب که هست در مسلمانی ماست

  8. #173
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    Re: If Itachi was the Godaime Hokage....

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    We really don't know about Jiraiya and Tsunade's accomplishments outside the war they fought and the actual timeline, what we know is that Sannins are known world-wide, way more than the Uchiha clan or most others clan/associations.
    Kisame commented that being a Swordman or an Uchiha mattered nothing compared to a Sannin, which actually proves how much weight the title holds. Remember, strenght isn't the only thing that matters, Tsunade almost singlehandedly supported an entire village during the Pein invasion, just to name an accomplishment she did.
    Uchihas aren't well-known as you seem to think, hell Deidara never ever knew Itachi's eyes were the Sharingan, and Zabuza never recognized Sasuke's symbol on his clothes. Uchiha were famous after the massacre, because of it. The only ones that aknowledge the Uchihas are old guys like Chiyo. For the world, Uchihas are a clan just like Hyuugas, Aburames or Akimichis.
    The Sannin title holds immensely more weight, expecially since Jiraiya traveled world-wide and had contacts in all the villages. Tsunade too was known as being the greatest Medic alive. Itachi on the countrary wasn't all that known before the massacre.
    The title of Sannin was granted by Hanzou for being able to put up a fight and that's what they became famous for. Outside the title of Sannin, Tsunade's only famous for her healing ability and Jiraiya hasn't been noted for anything. Tsunade saying the village means nothing, since that was something only she would have been capable of, so it's not a standard for being Hokage. Beside, Itachi kept Tobi and by extension Nagato from attacking Konoha for narly a decade just by being alive. In terms of protection, that's a better feat. The Uchiha clan is quite world famous. Deidara not recognizing the Sharingan or Zabuza not knowing what the fan meant doesn't mean anything. We've seen both Kiri and Kumo knew enough about them to be cautious. Heck, the mere mention of their former leader's name was enough to put all the Kages on guard and the thought of him being alive was enough to bring all five villages together. So the Uchiha clan isn't just some clan. Konoha believed that them staging a coup would have caused widespread damage to the entire country.

    Regardless, we're talking about Itachi himself, not merely the clan. Konoha, Kumo, Orochimaru, Tobi, and Kabuto have all praised Itachi for matters separate from the massacre. So he wasn't merely famous for the massacre. Heck, Konoha believing he was enough to handle his entire clan says plenty. Besides, what about Sarutobi, Kakashi, and Danzo hardly having records like that, so we're still back at the main issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    As I said it was so because Itachi was the more intelligent and cool-headed of the two, don't forget that both responded to Pein, say Kisame screws up, Pein would screw up Kisame.
    With Itachi in charge, the chance of screwing up were far more reduced. Also you're right, Hokage aren't flawless, yet being an already renowed ninja well past the maturity time is way better than an immature ( at least apparently ) 13 years old.
    No one would give command to a 13 years old, even in the shinobi world.
    Suna is a special case since Gaara was already the strongest at 13, and 16 is always better than 13. That is why I said that Itachi could've been groomed for the position since he would've reached an acceptable maturity.
    Like for Yondaime
    How does that counter the argument of Itachi leading him? And who gave orders to Nagato? Tobi, who Itachi had enough diplomacy to team up with in exchange for keeping Konoha safe. Obviously Itachi was capable of acting as a leader and making bargains for the good of the village. On the other hand, we've seen multiple ninjas disregard and ignore Tsunade's command. Immature? How was Itachi immature or seen as immature when he was made captain in Anbu? When he was let in on the highest and most important missions of the village? Obviously they didn't think he was too immature to keep the secret of what really happen with the massacre from getting out. The fact that he was made a captain pretty much proves you wrong in the idea that they wouldn't give command to a 13 year old.

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    Re: If Itachi was the Godaime Hokage....

    Command was over a squad though, about 3-4 people. Being a hokage means being a visible leader of tons of shinobi and the village, it's not just limited to a tiny group. Itachi had to concentrate on his missions when he was leading ANBU. When he leads the village, he has to take under consideration about at least 500 people.

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    Re: If Itachi was the Godaime Hokage....

    Of course commanding the entire village would entitle more then commanding a squad, but the overall issues would be the same: giving orders over a group of people and basically figuring out the best way to use them to get the most out of them with the least cost. Danzo's really the only candidate with known experience commanding an entire force, instead of a team or squad, not counting Hashirama and Tobirama who lead an entire clan. So it's not as if he's missing something all the other candidates had.

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    Re: If Itachi was the Godaime Hokage....

    But Itachi's decisions will affect the entire village. If he sends Kakashi on a C-rank mission instead of A-rank mission, then the village might pay for that because whoever got sent on A-rank mission failed as they didn't have the necessary skill sets that Kakashi did. His decisions affect the village even more than it did as commander of a small force. Even Itachi admitted he had flaws that made him rely on himself. A hokage is supposed to trust others and believe in them, something Itachi had difficulty doing, apparently.

    Of course, my memory could be wrong due to repression.

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    Re: If Itachi was the Godaime Hokage....

    You're right about what's required, though I don't believe Itachi began to solely depend on himself til afterward. I don't think Itachi would have much trouble judging who can do what and who should be on what mission. His innate analytical skills should be a benefit there, and even if it was on a smaller scale, the experience with managing a squad should help. Plus that is the point of the Elders, to help the Hokage make the correct decisions. At the very least, I believe he would do better then Tsunade, sending a bunch of genin when there were stronger ninjas available.

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    Re: If Itachi was the Godaime Hokage....

    Didn't Tsunade say that the stronger ninjas were busy doing missions, and that Naruto's team would do better because of Naruto? If it was a similar situation, I could see Itachi doin the same, at least sending out Naruto if he knows about Naruto's power to change people. And while the elders can help the hokage, the hokage still make some final decisions. Though if we take Tsunade's argument with the elders into account, they have almost as much power as the hokage.

    I don't think Itachi would have such trouble either, but he shouldn't have to fear losing men nor constantly go on missions just because he thinks he's best suited for it. In fact, I don't think Itachi could have become a hokage so early because hokages can't go on missions, not easily anyway. I think it was only Niidaime HOkage who went on a mission?

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    Re: If Itachi was the Godaime Hokage....

    She said that but we saw it wasn't true. Kotetsu and Izumo were around doing nothing more then delivering paperwork and Gai was there waiting to see how Lee was. That's two chuunin and a jounin that was available to lend support. I also believe the only reason Naruto was there was due to favoritism. I don't think he purposely added anything to the mission, though perhaps she was banking on Sasuke's relation with him to draw him back. True the Hokage would have final decision, at least in most cases, but unlike Tsunade, I don't see Itachi being the type to disregard the advice of others. Especially the people who we know he was willing to side with on something major like eliminating his entire clan.

    Technically, I don't think Tobirama was on a mission. They went to Kumo to ensure a formal alliance, so that was beyond just a standard mission. Anyway, I don't think Itachi would fear losing men. We've seen a few times that he's willing to sacrifice others when his plans call for it. He didn't have a problem putting Naruto in Sasuke's sight in his attempt to have Sasuke gain MS and he was prepared to kidnap Kakashi I think. He helped Shisui kill himself so his eye wouldn't be fought over and he also had no trouble allowing the seven Jinchuuriki to be killed for Tobi's plan. And of course, there was the Uchiha clan. Outside Sasuke, he's always done what was needed, even if it involved setting up someone for death.

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