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Thread: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

  1. #46
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

    @M3J

    I don't know. I told him i belive Kakashi can use his sharingan just as good as Tobi could in a fight but he does not agrees. We are compaing feats from both of them using a sharingan, like jutsus, copying jutsus, information about it and so on. But i am sure we are not going to get anywhere.

  2. #47
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

    Waste of time, in my opinion, as Kakashi has his own unique skills with the Sharingan. He's made good use of Sharingan so far, and both use their Sharingan differently and have different abilities.

    Though I do think Kakashi can oneshot Jiraiya with Kamui. The problem is that he'd be open because he either has to concentrate to use specific amount of chakra or recover from using too much chakra. Jiraiya and Minato would be open to take him out, though Gai should provide a decent distraction. Not sure if Kakashi would use a kage bunshin either as combining MS and KB would drain him of too much chakra.
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    Re: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J
    What kind of level? What level does Tobi have?
    Sharingan Mastery. Not just in the phase of Genjutsu. When you combine the three categories(Control,knowledge,jutsu) of the sharngan, Kakashi is not on Tobi's level.... That dosen't stop Kakashi from being a master of th sharingan.
    Quote Originally Posted by xXAn
    I don't know.
    LOL. What do you mean "i don't know". I've explain it to you in EVERY single post. ONE MORE TIME. Kakashi is not on tobi's level when it comes down to Control,Knowledge,and Jutsu of the sharingan.
    Quote Quote:
    I told him i belive Kakashi can use his sharingan just as good as Tobi could in a fight but he does not agrees.
    I also told you in EVERY post this has nothing to do with a fight. Its about Mastery of the sharingan.
    Quote Quote:
    We are compaing feats from both of them using a sharingan, like jutsus, copying jutsus, information about it and so on. But i am sure we are not going to get anywhere.
    Ware comparing feats from Better control better Jutsu better knowledge. Kakashi lose in all three, he only has a fighting chance in the Jutsu department... which he still lose. Of course we aren't getting anywhere. like i said you don't admitt when you are wrong.

  4. #49
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    Re: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

    @Prince Sasuke


    You can be my gues and have your oppinion. What you keep repeating there got old a long time ago.

  5. #50
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    Re: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by vanyar View Post
    @Prince Sasuke



    Tobi used a genjutsu on Konan when she was dying, what is impressive about that? Controlling the Kyuubi is indeed impressive yet we don't know what exactly that entails. It could be Sharingan mastery or it could be just knowledge that top Uchiha are privy too.



    Yes Tobi's abilities are good yet how do we know that his Space-Time jutsu comes from the Sharingan?



    Two elements and a Kekkai Genkai. Kakashi has very high level Lightning, Water and Earth techniques and that's without having a Kekkai Genkai. My point of this was to show Kakashi's mastery of copying techniques to an extent that we have not seen matched in the manga.



    I agree knowledge is a necessary component and to me Tobi definitely has more knowledge on the Sharingan than Kakashi, but the reason why I am saying that Kakashi is just as much a master than Tobi is, is because Kakashi upgraded and strengthened his own Sharingan without knowledge privy the Uchiha have, on his own. He became famous as the Copy-Nin and as I have stated no one, even Uchihas have not demonstrated using as much high level elemental techniques that he has.



    My take on that is:

    They both have basic Sharingan abilities yet Kakashi has shown to be more proficient at using his for combat such as copying techniques and manipulating opponents. Yes Kakashi has one MS jutsu and to my knowledge Tobi has none. Tobi has Space-Time, intangibility, warping and yet we don't know if that comes from the Sharingan. You mention Izanagi and better sharingan Jutsu which I completely agree with, Kakashi has shown nothing that can compare with Izanagi, yet I'm debating who is the better Sharingan master rather than who has the better technique and to me that could go to Kakashi since he is renowned for using his Sharingan and upgraded and bettered it without being a a member of The Uchiha Clan and without knowledge the Uchiha have.



    Tobi has more knowledge, he knows how to control the Kyuubi, he knows how to use Izanagi. Does this translate to better mastery though? I am by no means certain that Kakashi is more of a master than Tobi, yet from what we have seen no one has shown to be as famous for copying techniques, he manipulated and controlled Zabuza into believing that he could mind read and from being a non Uchiha gaining MS is amazing as only a handful of Uchiha have achieved it. So does Kakashi's lack of inside Uchiha knowledge make him inferior to Tobi or the fact that he has excelled with the Sharingan yet not being an Uchiha make him more of a master?

    @Kay3795



    Not really, Guy only if he is not in Gate Mode. Kakashi has shown himself to be Kage level so that would put him on the level of Jiraiya and Minato. Base level Guy not so much yet with 7 gates open Jiraiya nor Minato would solo him maybe even the contrary.


    Well, Ninja's don't have a rank higher than 'Kage Level' and we've seen Multiple Kage Level Ninja's defeat or can defeat another Kage Level Ninja's with absolute else or decisively .
    examples are:
    Itachi > Orochimaru
    Naruto > Third & Forth Raikage
    Minato > Killerbee & Forth Raikage.

    In actuality, I don't think there's anyway Kakashi & Gai can stand up to the lengendary Minato and The Great sennin Jiraiya. These 2 Ninja's have strange, out of this world techs that would make both Gai & Kakashi think twice about a match vs them.

    Itachi >

  6. #51
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    Re: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

    @Kay3795

    Quote Quote:
    Well, Ninja's don't have a rank higher than 'Kage Level' and we've seen Multiple Kage Level Ninja's defeat or can defeat another Kage Level Ninja's with absolute else or decisively .
    examples are:
    Itachi > Orochimaru
    Naruto > Third & Forth Raikage
    Minato > Killerbee & Forth Raikage.
    In regards to Itachi and Orochimaru, I think that's just a bad match up much like the fight between Kisame and B and even Kisame and Guy.
    Naruto is the main character, he is meant to be strong, so for me that doesn't say much.
    When has Minato shown to be more powerful than B and A? Wasn't that fight a stalemate?
    But ultimately I agree, S-Rank is a vague category which can range from Asuma to Nagato, Kage level though I find to be more determined considering people chosen for a Kage position are the best of the bunch, yet there are Shinobi who have shown to be close to a God so perhaps that's the level above Kage.
    Yet i don't think Jiraiya/Minato/Kakashi or Guy are on this level, I do however believe that Kakashi/Minato/Jiraiya and a Gated Guy are on the same level.

    Quote Quote:
    In actuality, I don't think there's anyway Kakashi & Gai can stand up to the legendary Minato and The Great sennin Jiraiya.
    I don't agree with your thinking, Orochimaru was a great Sannin too, yet as we can see Kakashi perfomed much better against Itachi than he did. I'm not by any means saying this means Kakashi is stronger than Orochimaru it's just a demonstration of how well Kakashi can fight against a high level opponent.

    Quote Quote:
    These 2 Ninja's have strange, out of this world techs that would make both Gai & Kakashi think twice about a match vs them.
    Kakashi uses Space-Time Ninjutsu as well as Minato and Guy can open 7 Gates to me that's just as impressive.

  7. #52
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    Re: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Quote:
    I don't agree with your thinking, Orochimaru was a great Sannin too, yet as we can see Kakashi perfomed much better against Itachi than he did. I'm not by any means saying this means Kakashi is stronger than Orochimaru it's just a demonstration of how well Kakashi can fight against a high level opponent.
    Wait what ? The guy fought Itachi once, and never ever Itachi wanted to kill him, he wasn't even half serious. (I don't consider Kakashi fighting that clone thing as a fight). Kakashi never ever showed anything close to the level of Itachi.

  8. #53
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    Re: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Quote:
    Wait what ? The guy fought Itachi once,
    They fought twice.

    Quote Quote:
    and never ever Itachi wanted to kill him,
    So? what's your point?

    Quote Quote:
    he wasn't even half serious. (I don't consider Kakashi fighting that clone thing as a fight). Kakashi never ever showed anything close to the level of Itachi.
    Again, what's your point? How does anything you have stated take away from my argument?

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    Re: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

    Just sayin', this is what Kakashi thinks when standing up to a Sannin, namely Orochimaru, so please let's not compare the two

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    Re: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Quote:
    Just sayin', this is what Kakashi thinks when standing up to a Sannin, namely Orochimaru, so please let's not compare the two
    In part 1. Very early in the manga. So it's perfectly fine to compare the two.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LnDRash's Avatar
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    Re: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Just sayin', this is what Kakashi thinks when standing up to a Sannin, namely Orochimaru, so please let's not compare the two
    Quote Originally Posted by vanyar View Post
    In part 1. Very early in the manga. So it's perfectly fine to compare the two.
    Its funny that this comes from you... after arguing so persistently about how its manga fact that Itachi and Kisame would be killed by Jiraiya, just because Itachi said so... during part I ;p

    Not to mention in that case there's at least over three years time skip as well... which you didn't seem to mind, so how comes Kakashi gets different treatment?
    Last edited by LnDRash; May 03, 2012 at 06:28 AM.
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  13. #57
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    Re: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

    Not only that but what exacly has Kakashi improved from part 1? Aside from Kamui i have no idea.

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    Re: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Not only that but what exacly has Kakashi improved from part 1? Aside from Kamui i have no idea.
    MS, chakra control, and stamina.

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    Re: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Quote:
    Its funny that this comes from you... after arguing so persistently about how its manga fact that Itachi and Kisame would be killed by Jiraiya, just because Itachi said so... during part I ;p
    Difference is, if my knowledge is correct the first databook lists Kakashi's stats as 33 and that databook covers up to the Chunin exam and some of the invasion of Konoha. So my logic is when he had a stand off with Oro his stats where 33 yet when he fought Itachi his stats are 34.5.

    Quote Quote:
    Not to mention in that case there's at least over three years time skip as well... which you didn't seem to mind, so how comes Kakashi gets different treatment?
    His and Jiraiya's stats stayed the same throughout each databook.

    Quote Quote:
    Not only that but what exacly has Kakashi improved from part 1? Aside from Kamui i have no idea.
    His Taijutsu, intelligence and speed.

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    Re: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by vanyar View Post
    They fought twice.



    So? what's your point?



    Again, what's your point? How does anything you have stated take away from my argument?

    My point is that using Itachi/Orochimaru to say that he can do well vs high level opponents is ridiculous : Kakashi is strong, smart, full of ressources, I don't doubt that. But we've never seen him doing so well against high level opponents : Itachi pwned him while not being serious at all, Pein raped him, nearly got killed by Kakuzu and was never able to have the edge over him...

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