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Thread: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

  1. #106
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

    .... Not constantly use doesn't mean he won't use it in a fight at all. I'm saying he won't spam it because it'd give Kakashi and Gai more chances to figure out the ability and counters if he doesn't take them out. If Hiraishin didn't require seals, I think he'd spam it, but it requires tags, which may not be at convenient places.

    I forgot if Itachi said MS or Sharingan could break out of Tsukuyomi, but if he said MS, Sasuke was able to do it without MS. What's wrong with comparing their Tsukuyomi? It's still some of the most powerful genjutsu, even if the users themselves have different mastery. I'm just saying, statements shouldn't be taken as 100% facts without some kind of proof. Statements don't have to be lies for it to not be taken as truth. It can be what the character thinks, but without reasonable way to back it up, it can't be taken as 100% fact.

    Once again, what makes them different from fodders, at least in terms of genjutsu? The only thing is the ability to break out of genjutsu and how fast. And yes, it is the same. Why wouldn't it be the same? Minato can still be put in a genjutsu like Konohamaru can. However, Minato can break out of a genjutsu, more easily anyway, than Konohamaru. The genjutsu used at the chuunin exam wouldn't be effective on Minato as he can break out, but he'd still be affected like everyone else. Konohamaru most likely can't break out.

    There's the difference. Everyone, until proven otherwise, will be put in a genjutsu. However, either they can break out of genjutsu easily, like Itachi can, they can take a while, like Orochimaru did, or they can't break out of it by themselves, like Naruto. Though, last two were against Itachi. Kakashi and Jiraiya can be put in a genjutsu IF Kakashi tries, but they could either break out of it quickly or might take a while. I'm giving both benefit of the doubt, which I rarely do whenever it's someone against Itachi's genjutsu, and saying both are likely to break out.

    What counter does Jiraiya have for Gai's Morning Peacock though? If Minato has a tag that's out of range, he can escape Morning Peacock, but I don't think Jiraiya has the defense to do that.

  2. #107
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    What? Bee never made an attempt to attack, he kept his hand there to counter Minato. Probably because it was useless to attack someone who could teleport or most likely because Bee wouldn't be able to kill or hurt Minato efficiently like that. But he showed no signs of surprise when Minato appeared behind him and his left arm wasn't seen when we saw Minato appear.

    Kakashi or Gai could still react in time if they know where the tag/s are and assume where Minato will appear. Minato and Jiraiya are smart, but Kakashi's pretty smart as well, and knowing about Hiraishin would help him. Hiraishin v2 has less chances of working on Kakashi because he knows about that or should.

    Though whatever way this fight happens, I still think Minato and Jiraiya will win.

    Why am I even arguing for Kakashi and Gai? -_-
    This has nothing to do with Kakashi and Gai. The point is Bee's reaction is generated by Minato stoping. If he would have reacted to Minato disapearing from his face then it would be the reaction to swing back. You don't just move you hand back and keep it like that when you don't know if Minato is going to strike or not. If Minato impales his brain Bee can try all he wants to swing his hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    Could do that ? Care to provide manga evidence please as you love to say ? So a 30% clone can pull the same feats as the original now ?

    Half blind, close to death who was INVINCIBLE during that short period thanks to Totsuka no Tsurugi and Yata no Kagami. Orochimaru charged like a moron as you saif because he wasn't expecting Itachi having that sword at all. Nobody would anyway, even Kakashi would've died in front of Itachi at that very moment if he even tried to attack him using " tactics " or whatsoever.
    Dude the 30% clone woud have no problem using a NORMAL, CASUAL genjutsu that owned Orochimaru. Itachi at 30% already showed the use of 1 of his genjutsu on Naruto and Kakashi... The 1 on Naruto was showed so strong that after Naruto dumped a ton of chakra to brake it he failed. Then 2 people, Sakura and the elder bat needed to work togeder to bust him. Itachi with a 5% chakra clone would be able to cast that 1 single genjutsu that owned Orochimaru. I have NOTHING to prove.

    Exacly my point. If Oro would have used TACTICS lika Kakashi and kept his distance for 2 minutes he would have won. Just summon snakes, send them in and see what happends. He charged like a moron and tryied to tank and UNKNOWN jutsu and weapon. He died.
    Kakashi would not have died as the sword is not that fast. To get Nagato Itachi had to w8 for the dust and what not from the CT to get a shoot in. Kakashi keeping range from the sword as he would formulate a plan and he would have won. If he would have tryied to attack like a moron yes he would lose but that is not how he fights. He always used clones, even vs Deva.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    You seriously think that Itachi wouldn't be able to seal Kakashi with that sword ? I'm not talking about the half dead Itachi, but a healthy one... If it was Kakashi instead of Orochimaru back at the time, yeah, he wouldn't get caught for sure.
    Getting disperate much? We where obviously talking about the one that was able to seal Orochimaru... I also love how first you tell me Kakashi would get hit just like Orochimaru and then you state here he would not get hit lol. Make up your mind already.
    Last edited by xXan; May 08, 2012 at 01:02 AM.

  3. #108
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

    Bee didn't have to swing. If Minato tried to stab, he'd get stabbed. All bee needed to do was hold the kunai still and let Minato impale himself. Bee's reaction and his action shows it all. Bee still reacted in time to Minato. He knew about the tag, apparently.

  4. #109
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Bee didn't have to swing. If Minato tried to stab, he'd get stabbed. All bee needed to do was hold the kunai still and let Minato impale himself. Bee's reaction and his action shows it all. Bee still reacted in time to Minato. He knew about the tag, apparently.
    You don't need to move your gut to move your hands lol. Minato impaling Bee's head as he got there would make it imposible for Bee to strike to. His only chanse would be to strike back at the same time he noticed Minato teleporting from his face. Anything BUT that and he is dead.

    Another thing why do you think he placed his hand like that if NOT after noticing HOW Minato teleported there? Just before that Minato teleported ABOVE Raikage in a position that Bee's kunai would have no way of striking Minato? No sry dude his action of only puting his kunai back and how it was placed back can only be done after you notice what Minato is doing and how he is oriented.

  5. #110
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member chilibun's Avatar
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    Re: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

    @M3J and xXan,

    I don't know what both of you are arguing about, but its pretty clear that it would be a mutual strike. Minato teleports with the same position as he started. He didn't teleport from a looking back position to directly stabbing position a millimeter from Bee head. Minato teleported in back of Bee and then performed the striking motion. Bee reacted to Minato's disappearance and possibly his appearance behind him and struck backwards with his sword at the same time Minato was striking down with his kunai. They both stopped simultaneously in a mutual standoff. It would completely retarded for either parties to willingly allow the other to retaliate, if they could strike first.

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  7. #111
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

    @chilibun


    Nonsene. Minato can pop in any position he wants and this was made clear in the manga. Bee would have no idea how Minato is going to be oriented before he actualy get's there. So you can explain to me how he knew before Minato got there and HOW Minato would be positioned? You can be my gues and shot me where it is stated that Bee can see the future.

    As i explained some times now, the only way Bee could react is to Minato disapeared form his face. But the action would not be to move your hand behind, it would be to fully swing back but if Minato teleports above him then he is dead and he does not hit shit. Where Bee moved his hand back and the fact that he stoped direcly showed that he knew how Minato teleported behind him (orientation) and the fact that Minato stoped there. Bee can't see Minato poping in his blind spot now can he? The same way Raikage could not or Tobi.

  8. #112
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member chilibun's Avatar
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    Re: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

    @xXan,

    What? I never said Bee knew he where Minato was teleport to. Bee would naturally react first to Minato disappearing, then sensing Minato appearing behind him, and then striking backwards. Minato full actions would be teleporting behind Bee and striking from a position right before he hiraishined, which was standing and looking blackwards. I absolutely do not believe he is capable of appearing in any position he wants. Its just skipped unless you want like 20 pages of him performing simple motions. All actual physical motion requires time. He can possibly rotate or flip his body around, but his actual body stance should remain unchanged. Minato easily fell on his face after teleporting away from Tobi's grasp.

    How would Minato being capable of kill Bee first make any sense. Would you fight enemies by placing your sword on their neck and then willing let them put their blade on yours? This was war time. Minato had absolute no reason to not kill Bee if he could. Bee could have even knew he was tagged to give him a heads up on reacting to Minato, but he was not alive because Minato spared him. It would have been a mutual strike. Unlike Bee, both Raikage and Tobi were not prepared or anticipating Minato's hiraishin. Raikage (at least he was confident) would to be able to strike down Minato with his superior speed.

  9. #113
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

    @chilibun

    Teleports from standing to crouching:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/542/14

    From running forword:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/502/16
    To above his target and facing down+the other way then he was running before.

    From this:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/502/12
    To this:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/502/13

    Its not even debateble. This are all actions that happened in a split second.

    Minato obviously missed Bee moving his had back. Then just as obviously he did not whant to kill him. If he really wanted to kill Bee he would not have teleported there and stoping. You actualy think he wanted to kill Bee but he teleported there and started a speach? Again Bee would have no way of anticipating:

    1-Minato would teleport in that position.
    2-Minato would not strike down and only stoping.

    Bee's reaction is direcly corelating with Minato's postion so he would need to first see how he was oriented and to Minato stoping so he would first need to see Minato stoping. Just keeping your hand back and hoping Minato would not strike and he would be dead. Minato impaling his brain first would mean that hand is not going anywhere to strike Minato to.

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  11. #114
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Minato and JMan vs Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    @chilibun

    Teleports from standing to crouching:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/542/14

    From running forword:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/502/16
    To above his target and facing down+the other way then he was running before.

    From this:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/502/12
    To this:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/502/13

    Its not even debateble. This are all actions that happened in a split second.

    Minato obviously missed Bee moving his had back. Then just as obviously he did not whant to kill him. If he really wanted to kill Bee he would not have teleported there and stoping. You actualy think he wanted to kill Bee but he teleported there and started a speach? Again Bee would have no way of anticipating:

    1-Minato would teleport in that position.
    2-Minato would not strike down and only stoping.

    Bee's reaction is direcly corelating with Minato's postion so he would need to first see how he was oriented and to Minato stoping so he would first need to see Minato stoping. Just keeping your hand back and hoping Minato would not strike and he would be dead. Minato impaling his brain first would mean that hand is not going anywhere to strike Minato to.
    Darn!! this was my post ^_^ but u were faster. Yeah I was going to say Minato can choose his body position when he teleports. He teleported to Killerbee with a knife already at his head so this Killerbee reacted to instantaneous is really ridiculous nonsense.

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