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Thread: Black Aura: A Logical Q & A

  1. #31
    Intl Translator 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Airgrimes's Avatar
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    Re: Black Aura: A Logical Q & A

    Quote Originally Posted by LetalHawk View Post
    1. Yukimura wasn't playing at full strength until Sanada released BA.

    2. Sanada showed BA, Yukimura was very afraid of that: "the sudden fear that went through his mind, Yukimura couldn't believe what he saw". THEN, "I expected to enjoy some tennis today, guess I was wrong".

    3. After saying that, he gets totally serious and plays without holding back at full strength. The score right there is 4-1, then quickly goes to 7-1.

    That's how it is. Yukimura walks over Sanada without BA. There's no way Sanada without BA can score a point against Yuki.
    Its this simple.
    Sanada stunned and scared completely Yuki when BA arrived, but w/out BA Sanada stands no chance.
    I look forward to a fanboy reply from Fayte.

  2. #32
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Black Aura: A Logical Q & A

    Well, I think even without Yips, Yukimura would have won 7-1 (given that Sanada then unlocks BA). Why? How many times did Sanada use teleportation against Tezuka until his legs gave in? 9 games I believe it was. So that were 36 points. One teleportation for each "rally" and the ball was either unreturnable for Tezuka or did land outside the court. So there were, lets say, a maximum of 40 teleportations there and a bit of running around.

    Sanada needed to use Rai as soon as the first few balls were hit, because Yukimura doesnt just returns everything, but also does that in a aggresive way to score winners. So Sanada, w/o the use of Rai there would have already lost the point there. Then, Wind and Fire were returned with normal shots.
    Normal shots.
    Normal.

    Playing a whole set, how long could Sanada last? Yeah, he played on par with Yukimura but he was not only going all out like Yukimura, but also he needed to hurt his body to do so. A major disadvantage.

    In fact, as we know, Yukiumura can do this with every ball, no matter how long the point lasts. How long until Sanada is forced to use more than 40 teleportations? I think his legs would have gave in and he would have been unable to move after a 5-10 minute rally.

    About BA, we know nothing about it except that it allowed Sanada to hit a very very fast/strong shot and Yukimura was feared for a moment. The rest isnt told and open to interpredation or speculation.

    Maybe to clarify:
    http://www.mangareader.net/343-24390...chapter-9.html
    Yuki was serving at 4-0 and had one serve left. Then, at the left bottom of the page we see the ball went past Sanada. So it was an ace. Sanada swings randomly in any directions, activates BA through willpower (do we actually know?) and then serves.

    http://www.mangareader.net/343-24390...chapter-9.html
    Here it seems like Sanada hit the shot not as a serve because he is standing way to far into the court and not at the baseline.

    Its 5-1 and Yuki takes the last two points.

    So did Sanada break out of yips for one point and was he yiped againt right after that? Or was he able to hit that BA serve even with yips kicked in?

    Now both have advanced their skills through training. How is the better now? Nobody knows. What Konomi will do is entirly up to him. He could go the typical shounen manga way. He could not. Saying I know what he is going to do makes as much sense as the ending of Mass Effect 3.
    Last edited by DavenSodan; April 28, 2012 at 05:25 PM.

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  4. #33
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member ashore's Avatar
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    Re: Black Aura: A Logical Q & A

    @airgrimes I apologize for not replying to other posts in other threads.. i dont know how to multi quote your replies. and I didnt wish to use up much time to try to prove my point. meaning, I have my own opinions and if others disagree that's fine with me. And usually if people dont reply that may be perceived that they gave up on their argument and silently admit they were view points were wrong, but in my case It doesn't hold true. at some point, I just dont want to push my theories and opinions on others.



    yukimura was and wasn't holding back against sanada. We see yukimura's thoughts during his match with sanada, taht he is indeed serious.

    IMHO yukimura's seriousness =put opponent in yips, embarrass them, all while defeating the opponent. He speculatively does that to all his opponents, thus why he would use this tactic against his friend out of respect.
    Why come here to talk nonsense?

    Read the above posts that Ken and I did. Yips comes naturally when facing Yukimura. Its not something he ''activates'' or ''uses''. Read before talking crap.
    At no point does Yukimura say he wants to embarrass his opponent once he has blinded them.


    I
    Spoiler show



    Quote Originally Posted by ashore View Post
    I theorize while opponents are in yips he hits the tennis ball (due to his good ball control) to aim it at the opponent. (thus embarrassing them and winning slowly)
    No. Not for embarassment. Its just how he is. Otherwise he would have said its to embarass him. Remember the flashback Konomi did to show they are best friends.


    Spoiler show


    Quote Originally Posted by ashore View Post
    After black aura atk from sanada, yukimura i believe changed his play style to beat the opponent as fast as possible.
    it's just a different playstyle / tactic, but still serious.
    No dude. Sanada stopped using BA and w/out BA as the story showed us, Yuki > Sanada w/out BA.

    Spoiler show
    Last edited by ashore; April 28, 2012 at 11:34 PM.

  5. #34
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    Re: Black Aura: A Logical Q & A

    Quote Originally Posted by ashore View Post
    My question is does an expert player need to keep hitting the ball at an opponent who is near helpless to return the ball?
    Yukimura can lob shots, he could aim his serves in different ways to avoid the opponent, do underhand serves, his skills could probably control the ball in other ways. THis may suggest that he hits the ball at an opponent who cant return to make them look dumb purposefully.

    [...]

    again i stress yukimura can aim the ball anyway he likes due to his skill level to avoid hitting the opponent after the a ball bounces, but he chooses not to.
    I would interpret this as him wanting to give Sanada a chance to actually hit the ball. Against Echizen he just blasts the shots past him, whereas against Sanada he just hits it back to him.

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  7. #35
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    Re: Black Aura: A Logical Q & A

    Quote Originally Posted by ashore View Post
    IMHO yukimura's seriousness =put opponent in yips, embarrass them, all while defeating the opponent. He speculatively does that to all his opponents, thus why he would use this tactic against his friend out of respect.
    Why come here to talk nonsense?

    Read the above posts that Ken and I did. Yips comes naturally when facing Yukimura. Its not something he ''activates'' or ''uses''. Read before talking crap.
    At no point does Yukimura say he wants to embarrass his opponent once he has blinded them.


    I
    Spoiler show
    What you believe is both wrong and irrelevant.
    KOnomi said himself its not something he activates. Are you foolish enough to tell us you know more than Konomi?
    Its not that Ken and I agreed on activation, coz Ken and I have clashing opinions a lot, its just that this time, Konomi gave us the answer as clear as day.
    Yips isnt ''activated'' Its a part of Yuki. He even yipped people in the U-17 Camp while just being near them talking which is in the PairPuri's.
     
    He didnt try to embarass Sanada. If anything he was showing a bit of kindness as his best friend... or something.
    Just like Kaoz said, against Ryoma he blasted shots away from him but against Sanada he did it right at him as he noticed Sanada suppressing yips with pure will power which is quite a feat.

    Quote Originally Posted by ashore View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ashore View Post
    I theorize while opponents are in yips he hits the tennis ball (due to his good ball control) to aim it at the opponent. (thus embarrassing them and winning slowly)
    No. Not for embarassment. Its just how he is. Otherwise he would have said its to embarass him. Remember the flashback Konomi did to show they are best friends.


    Spoiler show
    Did you confuse things chronologically? Since Yukimura aiming for Sanada happened BEFORE the BA arrived. Dont see your point's validity here.

  8. #36
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member ashore's Avatar
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    Re: Black Aura: A Logical Q & A

    aliright i forgot wat puri pair was. now i remember what that is and admit my argument about activation is wrong. I dont know more than the author. I didnt know yips was felt by the some U-17 folks who were watching a yukimura match. I didnt read the part about puri pair, but i trust you are right.

    @Kaoz
    I dont see why yukimura would want to give Sanada a chance to hit the ball? that would be an insult to sanada. Also sanada asked yukimura "dont hold back"
    giving unforced chances = holding back. Out of respect Yukimura will treat sanada like any other opponent. Like I said we can't really get into the mind of characters, but this seems the logical reasoning to me.

    Can we stop using friendship as an excuse for yukimura hitting the ball at sanada please? And if you can overcome that idea, then you have to ask yourself why is the ball being hit at sanada, and why is his clothes " DIRTY"? at the end of the match? , did sanada lie on the ground helpless? or is because he get hit from tennis balls?, which konomi dont want to waste pages of manga to illustrate his point. (http://mangafox.me/manga/new_prince_...02/c009/1.html) sanada get hits in head and stomach.

    (http://mangafox.me/manga/new_prince_...02/c009/3.html)

    let me summarize my points.

    point1: out of friendship yukimura will treat sanada like a regular opponent, and wont hold back. (therefore he wont give sanada chances to hit an easy ball)
    point2:i speculate that yukimura's tennis style after yips is applied is to have "fun" by hitting the ball at his opponents to make them suffer or embarrass them.
    point3: about yukimura's reaction to B/A. which is to defeat sanada As soon as possible, and put aside his personal fun.
    point4: to put in context about the perception of yukimura being serious pre and post encounter with B/A
    Edit: I re read pot 1 manga, echizen doesn't get hit with the ball while in yips, that only occurs in the anime.

    I already explained my reasoning for my 3 points in previous posts. i'll down for discussion or I'll wait for the ova match to see what konomi wants to put in it.
    Last edited by ashore; April 29, 2012 at 07:39 PM.

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  10. #37
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    Re: Black Aura: A Logical Q & A

    Quote Originally Posted by ashore View Post
    Edit: I re read pot 1 manga, echizen doesn't get hit with the ball while in yips, that only occurs in the anime.
    That's kind of the point.

    Yukimura makes Echizen move around, and on the other hand he hits the shots to Sanada while they were yipped, we can clearly see that there is a difference.

    "Enjoying tennis" could be interpreted in another way very easily. You can't enjoy tennis if you're not actually playing, and following that, wouldn't it make sense to give the opponent a chance to hit the ball and try to draw the match out a little longer instead of going for the finish straight away?

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  12. #38
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member ashore's Avatar
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    Re: Black Aura: A Logical Q & A

    I like and see your point. I can see it both ways. enjoying tennis could also mean winning and dominating the opponent. it depends on the player's personality. atobe enjoys war of attrition because he is slowly damaging the opponent and will lead to victory. Why would yukimura say/think one thing and do the opposite? Yukimura won't hold back. Does not holding back in a tennis match equate to hitting a ball towards someone so they can return it back? I guess we'll have to look at the ova to see what konomi adds. I realize people dont like see anime as canon, but sometimes the anime helps to show konomi's intentions that he couldn't show in the manga and perhaps the modivations of the characters.

    from http://mangafox.me/manga/new_prince_...02/c009/3.html

    "giving his friend a battle without hesitation." Even in friendship , yukimura will battle seriously. The word battle could mean both sides fighting each other, but in the case of yipped sanada , he was a sitting duck, and yukimura seems to atk sanada with his shots. As long as we understand each other's perspectives, then discussion on this specific point can be concluded. I'd like to see more discussion on the black aura! :O
    Last edited by ashore; April 30, 2012 at 02:23 PM.

  13. #39
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Brandnewkid's Avatar
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    Re: Black Aura: A Logical Q & A

    I'm having a hard time understanding how this thread reached three pages on a technique that we no virtually nothing about.

    I'm telling you guys, Konomi himself likely doesn't even know the status on the "Black Aura" yet. It's very likely that Konomi's writing and planning SPoT as he goes along.

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  15. #40
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: Black Aura: A Logical Q & A

    There is way too much to quote, so I'm just going to not do it. There is absolutely no evidence to conclude that Yukimura was holding back against Sanada at any time. Yukimura knows Sanada better than anybody, and he KNOWS Sanada would never forgive him for holding back. This is like PoT 101, and most of you seem to not understand this. Everything about this match tells us the OPPOSITE. There is nothing about this match that tell us Yukimura wasn't being ruthless against Sanada. Saying that "Yukimura was hitting points at Sanada's FREAKING FACE was Yukimura being nice allowing him to hit the ball back" is complete BS and downright laughable fanboyism. Are you kidding me?

    Whether Yips is activated or not is irrelivant. If Konomi says an ABILITY is not an ability, then yes, I will DISagree with Konomi on the bases of him not knowing what a logical fallacy is. Yips is an ability, period. Konomi did not create the definition of "ability," therefore I can disagree with what he says about it, and still be correct. To be honest, he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about on this topic.

    Also, I think we all agree that the subjectivity of saying "enjoy tennis" does NOT equal "hold back."

    And Airgrimes, I'm not going to debate your fanboyism (and it IS obvious). Your constant use of words to degrade Sanada makes you look like a moron.

  16. #41
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Black Aura: A Logical Q & A

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    There is way too much to quote, so I'm just going to not do it. There is absolutely no evidence to conclude that Yukimura was holding back against Sanada at any time. Yukimura knows Sanada better than anybody, and he KNOWS Sanada would never forgive him for holding back. This is like PoT 101, and most of you seem to not understand this. Everything about this match tells us the OPPOSITE. There is nothing about this match that tell us Yukimura wasn't being ruthless against Sanada. Saying that "Yukimura was hitting points at Sanada's FREAKING FACE was Yukimura being nice allowing him to hit the ball back" is complete BS and downright laughable fanboyism. Are you kidding me?
    It wouldn't be the first time player did something against their nature. Sanada taking a lose against Echizen by sealing his own two ultimate techniques just so that Tezuka wouldn't be able to prepare for it. Sanada see his match in the future that's not even guarantee against Tezuka as more important than winning Kantou tournament for his friend who is taking a surgery in a hospital. Does that sounds like Sanada to you at all? But that's actually what he did. A character do what Konomi draw them to do. It can be against their character, whatever. It's not up to you or me to decide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Whether Yips is activated or not is irrelivant. If Konomi says an ABILITY is not an ability, then yes, I will DISagree with Konomi on the bases of him not knowing what a logical fallacy is. Yips is an ability, period. Konomi did not create the definition of "ability," therefore I can disagree with what he says about it, and still be correct. To be honest, he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about on this topic.
    Did I just read "I'm more right than the author himself about his own manga"? I'm not going to even brother about this.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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  18. #42
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: Black Aura: A Logical Q & A

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    Did I just read "I'm more right than the author himself about his own manga"? I'm not going to even brother about this.
    If by more right you mean more right in my knowledge of the English language, then yes.

  19. #43
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Black Aura: A Logical Q & A

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    If by more right you mean more right in my knowledge of the English language, then yes.
    He doesn't give the interview in English. You'll have to read the original text to see whether or not what he actually means. Unfortunately, I do not know the original text in Japanese.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

  20. #44
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Brandnewkid's Avatar
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    Re: Black Aura: A Logical Q & A

    For all we know, the Black Aura could actually be Sanada using the Yips as well.

  21. #45
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LetalHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Black Aura: A Logical Q & A

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandnewkid View Post
    For all we know, the Black Aura could actually be Sanada using the Yips as well.
    Explain that to me.

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