Bleach 491 Discussion

[Kokuryuu]

well you shall prepare for another round of full-time bankai period. that period started in hm, and now guess where ichigo is
another note: kubo treats hollows better than shinigamis. once a hollow dies it may return back.
inside the cloak nel may be hiding

---------- Post added at 02:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:25 PM ----------

i wonder what is happening in ss.

Nel is in Orihime's arms.

[SaitoSpike]

i've got one question:

If Ichigo needs to use Bankai to beat Kirge wont you as a fan be dissapointed?
Dissapointed that after all this 'progress' in basic abilities (especially those) and in general power that he still needs to Bankai to beat this guy, i'm not saying Kirge is weak...but short of maybe one of these archangels or whatever they are directly under the 'king' there isnt anyone who should even be able to make him Bankai....as a matter of fact he jus finished wiping the floor with one of these dudes who are directly under the King (Ivan)

the argument for Kirge having to be easily dealt with by Ichigo is more based on Ichigo's own power rather than any thought of Kirge being weak imo, but of Course Kirge might just be one of those guys under the king...or was that already confirmed?

[kkck]

Kirge was called simply captain or something of the iacto arme. I doubt he is a member of the sterrn ritten at all. Still, the quincy volkstanden (or whatever you call that) is apparently a more powerful version of the quincy final form. We already saw with uryu that his seemingly weaker version was more than capable of putting him well above captain level. I think it would make sense for ichigo to need bankai and perhaps even his mask against this guy.

[SaitoSpike]

We already saw with uryu that his seemingly weaker version was more than capable of putting him well above captain level. I think it would make sense for ichigo to need bankai and perhaps even his mask against this guy.

Uryu took on probably the weakest captain there was at the time a guy who in terms of power is probably not that much stronger than the VCs who have Bankai...but we all kno its not about power when it comes to Mayuri so thats not to hate on him, so no i'm not convinced, plus Ichigo in Fullbring form alone these days is stronger than mid tier captains lol so that comparison doesnt work for me....i dunno

and 'WELL above captain level' is a stretch imo he wouldnt have beaten any other captain there, because he would have ran out of power before that happened, we're also talking about a time when Kenpachi was 'defeated' by a non Bankai Ichigo...if Ichigo needs his bankai AND a mask then there's no hope for SS lol

[Exodi]

Would someone be so kind as to explain this page to me?
http://mangastream.com/read/bleach/16062647/3

[SaitoSpike]

Would someone be so kind as to explain this page to me?
http://mangastream.com/read/bleach/16062647/3

something about the 17 months after the Aizen thing

[DEATHBOTT]

i think the cloak contains the arrancar who tried to join kirge but got stabbed instead.

[abyozuu]

tres bestia are not in their released forms why they can summon ayon?

http://www.mangareader.net/94-791-5/...apter-337.html
http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/491/17

[Miyagi]

i've got one question:

If Ichigo needs to use Bankai to beat Kirge wont you as a fan be dissapointed?
Dissapointed that after all this 'progress' in basic abilities (especially those) and in general power that he still needs to Bankai to beat this guy, i'm not saying Kirge is weak...but short of maybe one of these archangels or whatever they are directly under the 'king' there isnt anyone who should even be able to make him Bankai....as a matter of fact he jus finished wiping the floor with one of these dudes who are directly under the King (Ivan)

the argument for Kirge having to be easily dealt with by Ichigo is more based on Ichigo's own power rather than any thought of Kirge being weak imo, but of Course Kirge might just be one of those guys under the king...or was that already confirmed?

In every arc Ichigo learns new techniques which help him defeat an enemy who used to be stronger than him. I guess star knights are above Ichigo's league and even Kirge, being one of VR's elite soldiers, is strong enough to force Ichigo to release his bankai. Kirge tanked Ichigo's shikai attack without much problem and all Ichigo has to turn the tables is his bankai. If Kirge managed to attack Ichigo after he absorbed spiritual energy from the surroundings, I think it might knock out Ichigo, so IMHO he needs either his bankai or help of his allies to beat Kirge. There's a slight chance that Kirge may capture Ichigo's bankai though, in that case he'll not be able to use his bankai for a long time, which is perhaps where the story is headed.

Star knights are probably stronger than most captains and since we know that SS will lie in ruins, it's safe to assume they'll be the reason. I don't expect to see their holy form at such an early stage but since SS captains won't use their bankai I think their base form will be enough to do great damage. Ichigo may not be strong enough to defeat them with his current abilities, perhaps this is why Kirge is giving Ichigo such a hard time.

As a side note, it seems VR doesn't have a hierarchy similar to Gotei 13 and being directly under the king doesn't mean much with regard to strength. In fact Ivan was so weak that VR leader didn't bother to keep him in his army and there're many arrancars who can replace him even though we know these arrancars used to be fodder in the big picture.

[SaitoSpike]

In every arc Ichigo learns new techniques which help him defeat an enemy who used to be stronger than him. I guess star knights are above Ichigo's league and even Kirge, being one of VR's elite soldiers, is strong enough to force Ichigo to release his bankai. Kirge tanked Ichigo's shikai attack without much problem and all Ichigo has to turn the tables is his bankai. If Kirge managed to attack Ichigo after he absorbed spiritual energy from the surroundings, I think it might knock out Ichigo, so IMHO he needs either his bankai or help of his allies to beat Kirge. There's a slight chance that Kirge may capture Ichigo's bankai though, in that case he'll not be able to use his bankai for a long time, which is perhaps where the story is headed.

Star knights are probably stronger than most captains and since we know that SS will lie in ruins, it's safe to assume they'll be the reason. I don't expect to see their holy form at such an early stage but since SS captains won't use their bankai I think their base form will be enough to do great damage. Ichigo may not be strong enough to defeat them with his current abilities, perhaps this is why Kirge is giving Ichigo such a hard time.

As a side note, it seems VR doesn't have a hierarchy similar to Gotei 13 and being directly under the king doesn't mean much with regard to strength. In fact Ivan was so weak that VR leader didn't bother to keep him in his army and there're many arrancars who can replace him even though we know these arrancars used to be fodder in the big picture.

what constitutes 'above Ichigo's level' tho? i mean are you telling me these guys are all gonna be stronger than Ichigo who beat Aizen (there's no confirmation as to whther that level is available to him or not) so now you'd be saying these guys are all at a transcended level of power? lets be honnest there has been 2 that we know of so far and that was FAR ahead of everyone else....makes it hard to believe you've got like 10 ppl here at that level

with that logic than there's no real reason for them to have to steal or seal bankais....also it wouldnt add up to go with the 'Ichigo is special so we can't steal his bankai' (since they already tried and failed) and then suddenly no no even he can lose it...imo its been established that his bankai is 'special' so i'm not so convinced they'll be able to seal it and furthermore if they're at such levels why do they even need Ichigo out of the way as their cue to invade SS?

thats a very high pedestal you're putting these guys on no? i mean maybe the 'king' is at such levels of power but if all of these other ppl are supposed to be at that level how are we supposed to believe any sort of fight between them and captains (who've only had 17 months to train) that DOESNT last less than 5 seconds?

i'm also very much not convinced because even if Ichigo's current level maxed out with bankai and say a mask is about Yama-ji's level you'd have to at least be THAT strong to take him in Kirge's case....i'm once again left having a hard time believing that.....i dunno....

i think there's also gotta be a max level depending on the person in terms of how much reishi your body can handle in terms of absorption or else we're talkin about unlimited HG type stuff

aside from that were they able to manage to seal Ichigo's bankai we're not yet aware of his hllow side's progression after that Dangai stuff....does he now have a better understanding of that power? has the mask (and thus the level of power he can use in that mode) changed? more control? we've seen what the monster could do, the one that tore down Ulquiorra thats a level of power much greater than his Bankai as well....i'm jus saying beating Ichigo, well......lets jus say he's got alot of options (even when you kill him lol)

---------- Post added at 08:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 AM ----------

in some way stern ritten's levels of power are kind of limited to being near or slightly above the senior Captains full power levels, limited basically because of their opponents....we have to assume this because if it werent the case, then this arc would be over as soon as the fighting begins and Kubo likes his vs fights long....if every captain is facing even jus a bunch of Yama-ji levels dudes (not even at that other transcendent level of power) than its completely one sided and unbelievable fights

as in 'come on kubo, how the hell is Kommamura able to fight this guy, at this level after what we've seen from him in the past' type of unbelievable....for example (would be like Afro-san goin bankai suddenly)

[Miyagi]

Well, what I mean is that Ichigo is right now below the level he had against Aizen, not that star knights all have more potential than the main character. I agree that star knights may be on par with senior captains, perhaps Ichigo is close to that power level but I guess he will still need a power-up to beat one of the star knights, this is the basic formula of the story. This is how I see things of course but if Ichigo is still as strong as he was against Aizen, then any opponent bar VR leader will be fodder and considering that we have a long arc ahead of us, I think this is unlikely.

[SaitoSpike]

on the other hand i guess if the star knights are all that strong it might give good grounds for the introduction of the royal guard...

but yeah i agree with you that every other person he fights would seem fodder which is why i dont think Ichigo's gonna finnish this fight....i think there will be more interuptions

[Kokuryuu]

tres bestia are not in their released forms why they can summon ayon?

http://www.mangareader.net/94-791-5/...apter-337.html
http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/491/17

The obvious thing to think about it, IMO, is that they become stronger or more skilled to summon the beast without performing any release, or could it be that their release form is actually not necessary to do the summoning.

[kkck]

The obvious thing to think about it, IMO, is that they become stronger or more skilled to summon the beast without performing any release, or could it be that their release form is actually not necessary to do the summoning.

The manga never actually implied a release was necessary to release allon though.

[mattiaildivino]

and those bitches might have improved as well,although they are too weak nonetheless. dunno if allon is weaker than kirge,though.