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View Poll Results: Who wins

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  • Minato & Itachi

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  • Naruto & Gaara

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  • Sasuke & Tobi

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  • Kabuto & Madara (no Hashirama abilities and no Edo Tensei)

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Thread: The Ultimate Tag-Team Battle

  1. #46
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: The Ultimate Tag-Team Battle

    Quote Originally Posted by chilibun View Post
    Okay, then let say Sasuke Amaterasus him right off the bat. What is he going to warp to with no seals in play? Too soon for that too?! Okay, everybody waits around for Minato to place his seals. 3 of his opponents have the sharingan, capable of locating each tag by seeing its chakra. They can all systematically destroy the tags and then Bijuu bomb or Amaterasu his face. Gaara can also summon a sand avalache and completely sink the battlefield along with the tags. Okay, give Minato even more of a handicap and just let him be. Sasuke and Madara's Susanoo and Naruto's chakra cloak makes them nearly impervious to Minato's rasengan. Kabuto has fast regeneration and can liquefy his body. Gaara can completely surround himself in sand. Tobi can become intangible. Even if they let him live and do w/e he wants, Minato has little to offer.
    The OP states he has a tag on Itachi, he could teleport to him.

    @M3J

    Quote Quote:
    Yes he would, since by himself he can't land hits. His Paths should be taken out by Gaara, Naruto, Itachi, and others by then. ANd intangibility doesn't last, it has a time limit.

    Exactly. He had no time to react because he didn't know where Minato was. Why would he be able to react to Minato's reflexive stab to the head, but not rasengan?
    Oh i see, Minato wins this by having the other people kill eachother and then him coming in and lading the last blow on people down on his knees. What if they all jump Minato? He dies first. To avoid this go Team vs Team with no other teams interventing in that fight. Of course Tobi's team would lose if all the other teams jump him...
    Intangibility does have a time limit that Minato has no information about and no way to exploit. Tobi can turn tangible and then intangible at any time to reset the CD and Minato would have no idea. So its not a relevant point.

    Tobi was able to react to the stabs because it was in front of him. The other was in his blind spot. We know fom part 1 how bad those are. Mianto can in no shape of fashion teleport right in front of Tobi and hope to get a hit in. That is why he had to use that trick.
    Last edited by xXan; April 30, 2012 at 12:53 PM.

  2. #47
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: The Ultimate Tag-Team Battle

    Two posts in this thread state that I think Madara and Kabuto would win or Gaara and Naruto...

    I'm saying that the enemies would try to take out the Paths. Minato wouldn't be the sole target here, if anything they'd team up to take out Madara and/or Tobi's Paths. Doesn't mean Minato will wait for others to kill themselves and then land the last blow, it just means they're prioritizing.

    Minato, or anyone fighting and noticing Tobi, would get an idea. They just need to observe Tobi. Everyone in this fight, N aruto included, is observant and pretty smart. Itachi and Minato would definitely be among the first to figure out the tangibility thing, though Tobi does have Sasuke to help protect him.


    I think Minato could have done it, but he'd have to be fast before Tobi could turn intangible. It was about the timing, hitting Tobi as fast as possible before Tobi could react in time.

  3. #48
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Impossibility's Avatar
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    Re: The Ultimate Tag-Team Battle

    For me this battle has the potential to go for any of the teams, but I'd lean towards Naruto & Gaara. I think Gaara is being seriously underestimated, especially considering that the battle takes place in an abandoned sand village. For me, Kabuto & Madara are the weakest of the teams. Madara, having excluded Hashirama's abilities, has shown little beyond any of the other Sharingan users. Kabuto also has, to my knowledge, shown nothing that would be able to handle any of the jinchuuriki's bijuudamas or even Gaara's sand for that matter. Naruto's bijuudama is mentioned, but everyone seems to have forgotten that the Tobi's paths are capable of bijuudamas as well. Naruto's attack may exceed the strength of other jinchuurikis, but their attacks are nothing to shrug off. I don't see any team other than Naruto & Gaara being able to take on all six paths. Their combination of ridiculous offense with ridiculous defense is well-suited for the battle against the paths. After the paths are gone, I don't see Sasuke & Tobi as being able to overcome the overwhelming power difference between the two groups. The same goes for Minato & Itachi. With Gaara's likely field domination, as well as Naruto's overbearing power, I don't see any team being able to take them in straight out battles. Of course all this assumes that the battles between teams take place to the exclusion of intervention on the part of other teams engaged in the battle. If the battles aren't confined to team vs team, and devolves into complete and utter carnage, any team can win. How do you determine a winner when you have so many individuals throwing around completely hax attacks?

  4. #49
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity jaymizzo's Avatar
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    Re: The Ultimate Tag-Team Battle

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    BFR? Tobi isn't leaving the battlefield, he's simply hiding underneath it. No different from Gaara making sand formations and staying up in the sky out of range until everyone else is dead. It's completely within both of their powers to do so.
    The pocket dimension isnt part of the battlefield. It is exactly what it is, another dimension. Him going to it and resting or putting any of his team mates is BFR. And again, unless it is allowed, that option is only open to him doing it against his opponents.
    "Man hands misery onto man" - Philip Larkin

  5. #50
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: The Ultimate Tag-Team Battle

    @M3J


    What you keep stating here is that Tobi's team is going to have to fight more then Minato's team and thus is going to lose. On the other hand Minato is not going to even have to use his ST lvl 2 right?

    The time limit will never be figured out in a fight. Its just not possible.

    But let's do it diferently as you belive people are just going to jump Tobi.

    Tobi warps all the realms in his dimension and then turns himself and Sasuke intangible and is going to stand in a corner laughting as the other kill 1 another. THEN he brings back his realms and kills whatever is left.

    @jaymizzo


    BFR win is ONLY valid if you put someone in a place then can't get back OR they take an insane amounth of time to do so. The battlefield extends to whatever abilities they have. For instance if its Silver Surfer vs X the entire solar system can be there battleground. If its Spiderman vs Wolverine its NY city or something like that.

    Example. Trowing Superman in the sun is not BFR as he can fly out and keep fighting you. Trowing the Hulk in the Sun is BFR win as he can't get back out.
    Last edited by xXan; May 01, 2012 at 12:44 AM.

  6. #51
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity jaymizzo's Avatar
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    Re: The Ultimate Tag-Team Battle

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    BFR win is ONLY valid if you put someone in a place then can't get back OR they take an insane amounth of time to do so.
    BFR is exactly what it is, Battlefield removal. If Superman flies to the sun and sundipps when the OP says no BFR and the battlefield is only limited to earth, it means he has BFRd himself.

    Minato teleporting to Konoha to rest is also BFR, many of you argued that a lot in his threads when someone brought that point up. Naruto reverse summoning himself or being reverse summoned is BFR, Tobi warping himself or someone to his dimension; which like i said is a different place in itself, is still BFR.

    The act of removing one self or another from the battlefield is BFR unless the OP says otherwise. I get where you get your interpretion of BFR from though.
    "Man hands misery onto man" - Philip Larkin

  7. #52
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: The Ultimate Tag-Team Battle

    @jaymizzo

    If the op states that nobody is alowed to leave the earth then he can't fly to the Sun. If the OP states nothign about it and just, Superman vs Hulk, then its irrelevant.

    Minato teleporting to Konoha would not be BFR. He would need to be able to do that in a short enough time so his target can't get away and have the ability to get back but its not BFR. Tobi placing peeps in his dimension when he can target his enemy at any time and pull those people back at any time is not BFR expecialy when those are his tools (ET Jins).

    The battlefield again is not limited to a 1m square or this dimension. BFR Win is when you place a dude in a place he can't get out for some time. Can Tobi track Itachi (random X dude) if he warps in his dimension? Yes then its not BFR. Also not alowing Tobi to enter his dimension would probably mean removing 1 of his ability, to warp from place to place as he travels trough his dimension or at least that is how i see it. Something like Nightcrawler from X-Men.

    Again placing people in his dimension when he himself is still in the fight is in now way or fashion BFR especialy when you have his tools placed in there. You still have Tobi there. He could place Sasuke there and he could stay behind to fight. That is not BFR. At the very least you need to remove both fighters to consider a valid BFR win. If not its not.

    If we fight on earth and you trow me in space but i can return in 10 second how is that BFR? How is Minato teleporting to Konoha BFR if he can warp himself back close to instantly (as long as he does not go to sleep or stais there a long time for his target to get away). How is Tobi leaving in his own personal dimension and then returning BFR when he can track his target perfecly and it takes some seconds?
    Last edited by xXan; May 01, 2012 at 10:53 AM.

  8. #53
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: The Ultimate Tag-Team Battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood
    That projection is what Naruto "needed" to fight Kyuubi, it got damaged like a real body, it used chakra like a real body and everything.
    So Sasuke touching it makes sense, he touched the chakra and suppressed it.
    Say Itachi genjutsu'es Naruto and goes inside of the seal together with him, would he control Kyuubi behind its bars? I don't think so. Yondaime, the way I see it, simply took care of the situation by impeding everyone from taking control of the Kyuubi behind the seal, even if now they went in Naruto's subconscious not only they would fight Naruto to get through Kyuubi, but also, if worse come to worse, Kyuubi can be sealed by Naruto at any time, like he did when he took control of Kyuubi's chakra.
    He didn't touch anything. He looked Naruto in the eyes and an image appeared in his head. That means he can do the same at any range as long as their eyes meet.

    Quote Quote:
    Not to mention that they would be sitting ducks like Sasuke was when he suppressed Kyuubi's chakra, and with Gaara around it is asking to be crushed by the sand.
    Which is exactly why I first pointed out that there are multiple Sharingan wielders on the battlefield. None of whom are Naruto's ally. Itachi can do this. Sasuke can do this. Madara can do this. And potentially Tobi. Even if they're immobile while subduing Naruto's chakra, the fact that that one person is immobile and being attacked by Gaara gives someone else a chance to take out Gaara. Though since you brought Sasuke up I'll simply claim that Tobi stands nearby and makes Sasuke go intangible so that Gaara can't harm him while he does so. Infact, Tobi could hold onto Sasuke for 5 minutes straight while Sasuke spins around like an Enton Water Fountain, immolating and turning to ash everything there is. No one would be able to hit him, including Naruto with his Flash Bijuudama.

    Then once Sasuke's exhausted Tobi just lets him fly away on a hawk to rest before taking his Edorikki off the bench to come kill anyone that hasn't died yet.

    Quote Quote:
    Again suppress, seal and disperse is different from control, Yondaime didn't want the Kyuubi being controlled anymore, and he placed precautions so that he and Kushina would appear if something with the seal would go wrong.
    It is not failproof, but it is an efficent protection
    Again, I never said any of them would control Kurama. I said they'd be able to influence him in some way, since it's already been proven that Minato has no safety precautions placed on Naruto that hasn't already failed before. Imagine Naruto attempting a Flash Bijuudama only for Madara to try to summon Kurama to his side. Remember the stomach pains Naruto felt? They were severe enough to force him to fall to his knees. Naruto would likely drop the Bijuudama and it'd explode right in his face if Madara did that. And what if Sasuke attempted to suppress the Kyuubi chakra during that exact instant? Naruto might not have the chakra control to make up for the distortion and screw up the Bijuudama again here aswell.

    ---------- Post added at 04:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by jaymizzo
    The pocket dimension isnt part of the battlefield. It is exactly what it is, another dimension. Him going to it and resting or putting any of his team mates is BFR. And again, unless it is allowed, that option is only open to him doing it against his opponents.

    The pocket dimension exists within the battlefield though. It's no different from digging underground and staying there, or flying to the clouds and staying there. The opponents still have ways of getting to him to harm him (if Minato can tag him then he can teleport inside of his dimension to continue the fight there).

    But even if it were to become a rule because people got annoyed by the fact that it gives Sasuke and Tobi to great of an advantage, the fact that he can turn all the allies he's touching intangible still allows them to pull a decisive victory because it's essentially the same thing as his teleportation, because it's instant and protects him from any form of injury.

  9. #54
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: The Ultimate Tag-Team Battle

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    [B]@M3J
    What you keep stating here is that Tobi's team is going to have to fight more then Minato's team and thus is going to lose. On the other hand Minato is not going to even have to use his ST lvl 2 right?

    The time limit will never be figured out in a fight. Its just not possible.
    No, I'm stating that Tobi and Madara's Paths would be targeted due to the power and advantage they have. Minato will be fighting, but he won't be the sole target of all people or the main target. We've seen that Tobi can still be caught offguard and would need to react in time to go intangible. Even Rin'negan won't help him if he doens't react in time.

    It's possible. You have at least three shinobi who are very observant and at least two who are smart and able to put the pieces together, two who are on the same team. Not only that, but Naruto and Itachi are capable of usin bunshins, who in turn can observe and pass on the knowledge.

    Quote Quote:
    But let's do it diferently as you belive people are just going to jump Tobi.

    Tobi warps all the realms in his dimension and then turns himself and Sasuke intangible and is going to stand in a corner laughting as the other kill 1 another. THEN he brings back his realms and kills whatever is left.
    I believe people will jump whoever's got the most advantage, which would be Tobi and Madara, unless both hide their Paths until the right moment.0

  10. #55
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NinjaStar's Avatar
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    Re: The Ultimate Tag-Team Battle

    @xXan

    Quote Quote:
    Minato teleporting to Konoha would not be BFR. He would need to be able to do that in a short enough time so his target can't get away and have the ability to get back but its not BFR. Tobi placing peeps in his dimension when he can target his enemy at any time and pull those people back at any time is not BFR expecialy when those are his tools (ET Jins).
    Minato shouldn't be allowed to go to Konoha because it would require him to have a tag there and thats prep, right? Its fine with tobi because at a moments notice he could teleport to anywhere on earth. But what if Minato's tags on the battlefield got destroyed? He would be screwed because he couldn't come back. Or what if pain decided to destroy konoha while this thread battle was going on and inadvertently destroyed Minato's tag there(random scenario)? He would no longer be able to get there because the kunai that he set up in preparation of the battle would be destroyed. So i think that Minato leaving should be BFR IMO

  11. #56
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member chilibun's Avatar
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    Re: The Ultimate Tag-Team Battle

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    It's possible. You have at least three shinobi who are very observant and at least two who are smart and able to put the pieces together, two who are on the same team. Not only that, but Naruto and Itachi are capable of usin bunshins, who in turn can observe and pass on the knowledge.
    It doesn't matter how intelligent or observant you are. You still need methods to figure out Tobi's intangibility limits and they would have to literallly bombard him with attacks for 5 straight minutes to do so. You can't just say their smart and say they'll figure things out. Honestly, I find it hard to believe Konan could ever figure out Tobi's limits without him phasing half way into the ground for 4.99 minutes, jump out, phase back in for 4.99 minutes, and repeat. There is a reason why Kishi simply have her state that she knows the limits instead of actually showing her figuring it out. Its one of those abilities that require a complete deus ex machina intervention to solve.

  12. #57
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity jaymizzo's Avatar
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    Re: The Ultimate Tag-Team Battle

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    The pocket dimension exists within the battlefield though. It's no different from digging underground and staying there, or flying to the clouds and staying there. The opponents still have ways of getting to him to harm him (if Minato can tag him then he can teleport inside of his dimension to continue the fight there).

    But even if it were to become a rule because people got annoyed by the fact that it gives Sasuke and Tobi to great of an advantage, the fact that he can turn all the allies he's touching intangible still allows them to pull a decisive victory because it's essentially the same thing as his teleportation, because it's instant and protects him from any form of injury.
    It is a different dimension, therefore exists outside of the battlefield. Theres no negotiating it. And i dont recall anyone aside from me disputing that fact so i dont see how people were getting annoyed.

    BFR is BFR.
    "Man hands misery onto man" - Philip Larkin

  13. #58
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member chilibun's Avatar
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    Re: The Ultimate Tag-Team Battle

    I wouldn't consider the pocket dimension BFR because they are still in play. Kill Tobi and you kill the whole team.

  14. #59
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: The Ultimate Tag-Team Battle

    Quote Originally Posted by chilibun View Post
    It doesn't matter how intelligent or observant you are. You still need methods to figure out Tobi's intangibility limits and they would have to literallly bombard him with attacks for 5 straight minutes to do so. You can't just say their smart and say they'll figure things out. Honestly, I find it hard to believe Konan could ever figure out Tobi's limits without him phasing half way into the ground for 4.99 minutes, jump out, phase back in for 4.99 minutes, and repeat. There is a reason why Kishi simply have her state that she knows the limits instead of actually showing her figuring it out. Its one of those abilities that require a complete deus ex machina intervention to solve.
    Hmm, might not need to know the limits. We've seen that Tobi has to be tangible to be able to land a finger on his enemies. As long as the enemies aim for that particular moment, there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to touch Tobi. Minato has the best chance, and if Itachi works with him pretty well, they could take out Tobi. Or Gaara and Naruto can synchronize their attacks to hit Tobi.

    We've seen Tobi be hit twice without anyone knowing his limit, Minato and one of the Root. All of the fighters in this match are much better than Konan.

    Genjutsu could work on Tobi as well. One second is all Minato, Naruto, Itachi, or Madara needs to hurt Tobi. Though, the scenarios don't have Sasuke comin to Tobi's aid. In that case, it'd be a bitch to touch Tobi because of Sasuke's Susano'o.

  15. #60
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: The Ultimate Tag-Team Battle

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J
    Hmm, might not need to know the limits. We've seen that Tobi has to be tangible to be able to land a finger on his enemies. As long as the enemies aim for that particular moment, there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to touch Tobi. Minato has the best chance, and if Itachi works with him pretty well, they could take out Tobi. Or Gaara and Naruto can synchronize their attacks to hit Tobi.
    While I agree with this, we have to remember that while someone's sitting still watching for Tobi's body to become tangible again, there's likely another opponent lining THEM up in their sights. Strategies that require you to make pinpoint accurate attacks in the middle of a hectic battlefield are the ones that are the most likely to fail.

    Quote Quote:
    We've seen Tobi be hit twice without anyone knowing his limit, Minato and one of the Root. All of the fighters in this match are much better than Konan.
    To be fair, there's two weaknesses to Tobi's power. The first is that he can only warp objects while tangible. The second is he can only remain intangible for 5 minutes. Minato and Fuu and Torune both knew one of the secrets. And it was only after his initial attack. Inorder for these guys to figure out the best chance to hit Tobi they'll have to do the same thing that Minato, Fuu, and Torune did: and that's survive his initial assault.

    Quote Quote:
    Genjutsu could work on Tobi as well. One second is all Minato, Naruto, Itachi, or Madara needs to hurt Tobi. Though, the scenarios don't have Sasuke comin to Tobi's aid. In that case, it'd be a bitch to touch Tobi because of Sasuke's Susano'o.
    Not just Sasuke's Susanoo. Tobi was given all his Jinchuuriki aswell. Utakata can leave explosive bubbles all around Tobi to protect him. Or acid mist. Goku can heat the surrounding ground with lava to keep anyone from rushing in. Fuu can create a mirror to deflect incoming attacks with attacks of the same strength (atleast that's what it seems like. Which begs the question why the hell she didn't do the same thing to Naruto's Bijuudama...)

    If Tobi ever fails to see an attack coming he's got 6 partners (5 of them friggin' giants) watching his back. Not to mention his Sharingan should protect him from Genjutsu, and all of his partners have Sharingan aswell. Genjutsu probably won't be too big of a deal.

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