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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
However yes, if they got to stare at each other then yes, there is a possibility. Without Naruto staring at a Sharingan user though I doubt it can be possible
To attack you have to be solid, so Sasuke will be solid.Quote:
Not that it matters much, since he is enclosed by Susano'o, but still. As Tobi's jutsu is, only another S/T user can stand up to him, namely Yondaime, that's why, in a ipotetic team pairing I believe the Itachi/Minato team would want do dispatch Sasuke and Tobi first, and likewise, since Yondaime is the only one that could prove to be difficult do deal with for Tobi.
The very fact that Tobi isn't afraid of Naruto's power states that he do not consider the Kyuubi a threat
In a scenario when Naruto attempts a flash bijuudama, yes. A scenario which I don't believe it will happen, since, as you well explained, more than one can screw with him. In my analysis I didn't even considered the Bijuudama as nothing more than a last resort ( hell against Kabuto and Madara I totally see Kabuto using that vibration thing to make the bomb blow up in his face ), since, personally, I believe that Naruto's powers right now are well beyond simply spawning Bijuudamas.Quote:
A FRS to the face would be way better against Kabuto, and Gaara's sand would deal with Preta's absorbing ability
I didn't say everyone was getting annoyed by it. I said IF they get annoyed and make it a rule to take away Tobi's alternate dimension then he can use his intangibility to perform the exact same feat I was giving him (the ability to avoid all damage until half his opponents are dead).Originally Posted by jaymizzo
Except when it's not.Quote:
People are not just going to jump the ones that have the most advantage and Tobi can counter that easy by warping them away and holind them there to the end of the fight or turning them intangible. You don't just look at numbers and charge in. You first need to consider the opponents abilities and that would take time. Naruto going 120 RM+SM clones are going to be way more as a target as he defenetly has the numbers. Naruto going full biju mode and flashbijudama them would also attact attention. If you try to make a point try to make 1 that does not involves arguing over the probability of Tobi getting to be target nr.1. Any team could be that depending on how they are oriented in the battlefield, what jutsus they start to spam and what not.
But its verry irrelevant as i said before as Tobi can counter them attacking him and just w8 for the rest to kill one another before joining the fight and that is why i whent with team vs team and not all teams FFA to determine what team could beat the rest and come on top but not in a FFA scenario as Tobi absolutly stomps there.
I will make that point again.
Minato losing to BFR would be only if:
He can't return to the fight or is away from the fight long enough for his target to get away.
Minato would not lose to BFR if:
He can't return in a given time to the battlefield and his target does not have enough time to get away. Minato can teleport around the world IF he can return to the battflefield before his target leaves.
All the above points where made by me in my previous posts.
Some people even belive that Tobi warping to his dimension and back is a BFR win for his opponent and that is just absurd. Let's take away 1 of his abilities because i don't like it type of argument. A BFR loss is only valid when you put someone in a place from where he can't return for some time or is stuck in there. Just leaving the battlefield and returning in seconds is not BFR even if that dude leaves the curent time line, dimension or whatever else.
BFR is not achived by leaving the battlefield. Its when you send someone somewhere from where he can't get back to fight you. Minato and Tobi changed the battlefield in there fight a good number of times in the manga as both of them can teleport. That is not BFR loss, that is using ones abilities, as long as both sides can reengage the opponent nobody is BFR'ed.
A perfect example. Asume Minato can teleport out of Tobi's dimension:
Tobi placing Minato in his dimension and then Minato teleporting out to keep fighting him its NOT BFR win.
Tobi placing Kabuto in his dimension where he is STUCK and can't return to keep fighting Tobi IS a BFR win.
Last edited by xXan; May 02, 2012 at 03:30 AM.
I agree with this. Instead of everyone jumping the strongest guy at once (which would take some sort of unsaid agreement to coordinate), most opponents will simply wait for another to commit to an attack and then sneak them from behind, whether they're the strongest enemy there or not.Originally Posted by xXan
Come to think of it, no one here has been stated to know eachother's strengths and weaknesses so how are they gonna know who's the strongest before it's too late? Even those with sensing abilities and powers to see chakra inside someone wouldn't know the threat each enemy poses until they start bringing out their full power. Like how Sasuke didn't know Naruto's chakra reserves could get immeasurably high once he starts using Kurama's chakra shroud back at the VOTE.
This fight has an obvious result, because madara and naruto are destined to fight at the end. Madara's GOD mode vs naruto's GOD mode. Minato, itachi, sasuke, gaara and kabuto are just merely a human compared to naruto and madara. But at the end of the day, naruto will win this one. His kyubi's chakra together with the 6 bijuu's chakra, naruto right now has already surpassed madara in terms of power and strength.
---------- Post added at 06:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:53 AM ----------
From this you get that Tobi can't use intangibility on RM Naruto? The way i see it he stated:
Tobi: I should've sliped trough you. Then insert here:
a: But you where to fast.
b: But i wanted to test you.
c: But i can't do that.
Personaly i think its 'b' as he states here that he expected more from the 9 tails power:
Also nobody made any comments on how this can be achived with RM?
Its more then 1 posibility but you jumping to that conclusion is absurd. You need to w8 to see the following chapters before you can use that.
i know that you loved sasuke too much, but just like you said, tobi and sasuke can't really do a shit to GOD MODE naruto. Because the manga clearly shown that tobi's most hax jutsu is nothing but nothing infront of kyubi's amazing life force. Infact, i doubt even madara can scratch naruto. Imagine when naruto used his Bijuu mode/rikudou mode level 1 and 2, and how that will going to react on madara's awesome breast,which is hashirama's face by the way, then hashirama's face will going to change into a big tree. I'm pretty sure madara will be disappointed with that.
Bub the simple fact that Naruto vs Tobi is actualy Naruto+Bee+Kakashi+Gai vs Tobi should tell you something...
And your so called "B" answer is baseless and absurd. Honestly, judging from that "b", tobi expected more from kyubi's power. More, means he needs to know the OTHER abilities that the power of the kyubi gives to naruto. And 1 possibility? No, the manga is enough for me to conclude that tobi can't used his intangible jutsu infront of naruto. What the manga has shown is valid proof right?
And just like what ninjastar keep on insisting, That what the manga has shown for now is the most logical proof to debate in this forum. The manga shown us that naruto has the power to cancel tobi's jutsu. Thats a manga fact. So until the manga has shown that your assumption is indeed true, then you can't used that logic into this fight.
Weather someone sends you out flying, wishes you out of existence, teleports you to an alternate dimension or you simply want to go splash in a river in some other planet, its BFR. Like i said, theres no negotiating the meaning.
Tobi teleporting Minato to a different dimension is BFR, Minato breaking out is a completely different story. If Minato teleported into his dimension on purpose, thats BFR. Tobi teleporting himself and any ally into his dimension is BFR regardless of weather he can come back or not.
Point is you have no evidence of what you claim. You have a posibility nothing more.
Belive what you whant. Point is Tobi can teleport to his dimension and back and it does not constitute a loss for him. Same for Minato. He can teleport to Konoha and back and it would not constitute a loss for him. Its perfecly under there abilities to do so. You have absolutly no logical grounds to support your claim that leaving a designated area would imply a loss for X caracter as long as X caracter can reengage his opponent before he/she can escape.
If this BFR view of your would be correct Minato teleporting good enough distance would mean he lost the fight in the manga already as he left the area where he was fighting Tobi:
Right here Minato lost the fight. As he moved away a good distance from Konoha to his house in the woods or whatever.
oh w8 Kishi does not agree with you:
The only VALID way to win trough BFR is to move someone to a place he can't reengage you. If the OP states NO BFR then Tobi can't warp Minato away in his dimension but he CAN warp himself to his dimension. The loss can't be achived by removing X dude ability to engage you.
Superman vs Hulk. No BFR.
Superman can fly into space and trow small moons at Hulk but he can't win the fight by trowing the Hulk into space and thus stoping his ability to fight back.
In any event your version of BFR can be completly ignored by us as Kishi HIMSELF stated its allowed. To remove X person ability to leave a designated area can only be considered as valid as long as the OP clearly stated they can not leave X area under any form or fashion. Just statind this fight happeneds in X place means it starts there and nothing more.
Tobi vs Minato, they fight in Konoha. Does this mean they can't start moving the fight to a diferent area? Nop.
Hell even Deva moved back to get close to his main body but that was not a loss for him (well he lost eventualy but you get the idea). Your version of BFR makes no bloody sense.
Last edited by xXan; May 02, 2012 at 07:17 AM.
Last edited by syx; May 02, 2012 at 08:25 AM.
First off, you don't know what percentage of kyuubi chakra Sasuke suppressed. It wasn't just one because Naruto had already started growing fangs, thicker whiskers, and long fingernails. Secondly, at that point in the manga Naruto had mastered control over 3 tails worth of Kyuubi chakra. If control had ANYTHING to do with whether Sasuke could subdue the chakra or not, then Sasuke would not have been able to do what he did. Thirdly, what Sasuke used wasn't Genjutsu; it was suppression of Kurama's chakra. Kyuubi won't be kicking anyone out of his head. He may be able to awaken Naruto from a Genjutsu, but you've nothing at all to prove that he can prevent people from entering Naruto's mind.Originally Posted by marshal313
This has been discussed to death already: he meant "I should have chosen to slip through him." What they did was essentially a game of chicken that neither one of them wanted to lose, so they ran into eachother instead. You want even more proof what your saying makes no sense?Quote:
^That's Tobi, sticking his hand RIGHT through Naruto's head while he's in Chakra Mode. Proof that Kurama's chakra does nothing to interfere with his ability to go intangible. You totally dropped the ball on this one, lmao.
I know he was a clone, but a portion of Kurama's chakra is spread throughout each clone. If there were no clones than the entirety of the chakra would sit inside of Naruto instead, meaning he'd feel an even greater pain throughout his body. And again: you have shit chance of proving Sasuke can't subdue Kurama's chakra when Naruto's in Bijuu Mode. I mean seriously: if an MS can control the full amount of Kurama's chakra (BEFORE Minato split him in half), why the hell wouldn't it work now when Kurama's chakra isn't as great?Quote:
Just incase you missed it the first time:http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/566/13Quote:
The only thing Kyuubi's "amazing life force" can shit is Zetsu, and some mokuton jutsu. It has absolutely no effect on Tobi's ability to go intangible. None. This is a failed argument.
Now you're making things up. Naruto has not been confirmed to have chakra from each of the other bijuu yet. And Madara is not gonna be the final antagonist of this manga. And I seriously don't think Naruto's even gonna fight him. There are too many strong opponents in this fight and Naruto is only a threat for 5 minutes.Quote:
That's not long enough.
Oh for the love of God, you have such ridiculous double standards. It was never ok for Minato to teleport to Konoha and rest or get his equipment, it was never ok for Jiraiya or Naruto to get reverse summoned to myoubonzaki, but its ok for Tobi to teleport to his dimension and sit there until her feels the need to come out and not count as a BFR.
And your analogy about Superman vs Hulk is terrible. If the OP states no BFR allowed, then Superman cannot swing the Hulk out of earth or the universe, if BFR is allowed Superman can do it and get a BFR win. If BFR is not allowed and Superman leaves the battlefield to go sundipp, he has exited the battlefield and therefore losses due to BFR.
Like i said, arguing with you guys is extremely pointless, your mindset only allows you to be right. Still, i dont get why your arguing about the meaning of BFR. And where the fluck did Kishi say or mention BFR is allowed? Its not even a general rule in the Manga. The OP doesnt state BFR allowed or not, but other threads never specified and you were the first one to cry out that leaving the battlefield is retreating.
And no, its not believing what i want, its believing in a fact, that is what BFR is and an alternate dimension is exactly what is sounds like.
And your last statement about Deva, dude seriously, you do realize that battlefield limitations havent been set in Naruto nor was there a limitation during the Pein vs Naruto fight? Stop making things up to suit your argument. BFR is BFR, there isnt a different version, its exactly as the definition is, Battlefield REMOVAL.
You guys are hopeless to argue against.
Last edited by jaymizzo; May 02, 2012 at 10:01 AM.