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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
7 (Top 5 in Claymore)
I agree with you on this. I don't want the main characters to die at all. Random deaths would be pointless.Quote:
but on a side note i was re-reading some of the older chapters and in 120 Dae is talking to rubel and he says "For me those 3(referring to Hysteria ,Roxanne and cassandra) were my greatest work, so much that i wanted to keep them close at hand forever"-"but i was willing to use even them as research material after i saw that"......now why would he say that about them if they were not the strongest....if they were the strongest out of the ones with there full body's at his disposal then he would not have refereed to them in such admiration....he would not have said he wanted to keep those 3 specifically "close"
Last edited by number12michael; June 27, 2012 at 03:52 PM.
Well if all you care about is realism, then you must not like the idea of yoma and super humans either. It is not impossible for the main characters to all survive.Quote:
What I would like to happen is the ghosts and Raki get Clare out of the blob Raki then goes to embrace Clare...when she rather promptly rips his throat out and eats him. Forcing the Ghost try and put her down like a wild beast. While that's all going on Priscilla wakes up/gets out of the blob too. Cue Grim Dark blood fest bad day.
I want this manga to be like it was back in the day Horror , Death and Despair waiting around every corner. Not this 3 Creatures of the Abyss appear No one dies stuff and I don't mean just Minor characters I'm talking about the Big people too so that then we will know that there back.
The bad days the all or nothing days the chapters that made you say DAMN whats gonna happen next? Not this blah blah blah good guys win blah blah no one dies blah and I'm not saying I don't want the Ghosts & Raki to not win far from it.
All I'm saying is whats the point or glory in a Victory if there was no cost no price?
Well if it's so upsetting then just stop reading claymore. And if all you want is to see people dying, well, then that is something that a psychiatrist can take care ofQuote:
I like where the manga is at right now and I have no desire to see any of the main characters die. I don't really care about realism, I just enjoy the story. And there is nothing wrong with the main characters surviving dangerous situations. But i guess some people get off on other people dying, which is weird.
Last edited by Claymore1; June 27, 2012 at 06:33 PM.
I'm on the death bandwagon, and not just because I'm a sadistic SOB. As what number12michael said, it adds some degree of realism to the story. It is only natural to fall to a powerful opponent. I mean, they went up against an AO, technically second in rank only to the Destroyer and Priscilla in terms of raw power in the CLAYMORE universe. To what degree would death in such a scenario have been random? Logically speaking, death should have been a matter of course. True, almost all of them were single-digit in rank, with Miria possibly reaching low-tier No. 1 status and Deneve and Helen possibly at No. 2-3, but would that have mattered against Hysteria if she was actually serious? She was one of the strongest No. 1 warriors in history, and as such, one of the strongest ABs to ever exist and possibly more powerful than some of the original AOs (though this doesn't seem to be the case). The sole reason they survived was Yagi's machinations. He had put a tragic (and in this case, idiotic) flaw in Hysteria that would ensure everyone's survival. I would've liked at least one or two of them to have died before the stupid flaw kicked in, just to cement in the readers' minds how near-hopeless the situation they were in was. True, there are other ways to go about this, but is there a more convincing and effective way of illustrating a monster's overwhelming power than taking the lives of characters already perceived as strong in their own right? I think that there is none.
As for the ZAOs, Dae's lines in Scene 120 seemed to indicate that he truly perceived Hysteria, Roxanne and Cassandra as the strongest of the bunch. Maybe he selected them solely on the assumption that they would generate the largest amount of yoki if they awakened and simply hoped the aura would be large enough to "get a rise" out of Priscilla. I'm guessing Dae also thought that it would be logical that the one with powers beyond AO in level would be associated with the strongest warriors he knew. Perhaps it was someone strong enough that she had to be dispatched by one of those three or someone associated with the death of either Roxanne or Hysteria. It was one big guessing game for Dae, and luck was on his side.
On another point, I'd love to learn about the circumstances surrounding Roxanne's demise. That'd make a lovely Extra Scene, along with the Rockwell Hill Massacre.
Last edited by Fermat; June 27, 2012 at 07:03 PM.
I wouldn't hate it if a minor (new) character died like Nike, Audrey, or Rachel, just not the main characters. The ones that we have connections too and backstories. They are the important ones that should survive. My point was that wanting all the main characters to die is not a way to look at a story.Quote:
Last edited by Claymore1; June 27, 2012 at 07:09 PM.
Thinking back to Roxanne vs Cassandra, I think the fight serves as evidence (not proof) for two potential observations.
First, awakening is a coin-flip in terms of receiving useful additional abilities or traits(Isley's seeker missiles, Luciealla's mouths, Dauf's armor and rods, etc). Compared to Hysteria's hook/anchors or Cassandra's heads/form, I think Roxanne luck was, well..., shit. A superior Claymore may not always have the same competitive advantage as an AB. Of course, one could argue that Cassandra could have taken Roxanne in a fight as both a Claymore and AB, but it does seem that awakening is a bit of a coin toss.
Second, despite Roxanne stealing the abilities of other Claymores it did not truly reflect in her awakened form. In contrast, Cassandra and Hysteria's forms matched their techniques very well. I am starting to wonder if Claymores, despite being able to attain new abilities have predetermined awakened forms. It would explain why Roxanne had so little and perhaps why Claire's form still has not changed at all despite learning the Wind Cutter.
As for the next chapter, I predict a subject change, perhaps towards Cassandra or even Galatea/Mitia/Clarice.
Nevertheless, let it be said that I have nothing against those who believe that all of them should survive. Indeed, a part of me feels that I have become too emotionally invested on several characters and that the said characters have gone through far too much to be absent at the endgame.
It's quite possible that the awakened form is determined upon a claymore's creation. This would mean that techniques are organically predetermined, e.g. Cassandra was destined to learn the DE. Given what we know about the DE, this isn't entirely too unbelievable. Cassandra said it was something she created at the spur of the moment to save her friends. It's not too farfetched to think that her yoma side whispered in her head during these moments, subconsciously twisting her body into the awkward, unthinkable stance that was the DE. This explains why Cassandra's awakened form was such and why Roxanne's seemingly had nothing to do with the skills she had obtained unless you force associations (as you shall see below).
A counterargument to the above would be Clare's form. Clare's form predominantly uses blades adept at QS-like strikes, which, by the previous argument, would lead us to conclude that Clare was destined to learn QS with or without Irene's intervention, which cannot be farther from the truth. However, don't discount the theory just yet, for there is a counter-counterargument. Perhaps the predetermined parts upon creation were the hoof-like lower extremities and that the presence of Irene's arm allows for that part of the form. This means that the form is influenced by the presence of another warrior's flesh and leads to the conclusion that Clare's revered QoB form is actually what Irene's would have been had she awakened.
In conclusion, the first theory suggests that the awakened form is predetermined upon creation and embedded at the cellular level, and that the techniques that awakened forms take after are actually already subconsciously present, just waiting to be learned and unlocked.
Let us, then go to a second theory. This one suggests that everything is mutable up until the point of awakening and that techniques are the warriors' own personal creations, uninfluenced by their yoma side. The awakened form, then, takes on the technique that the warrior utilized most. Again, it has its points. As for Clare's QoB form not being affected by her acquisition of the WC, it may simply be because it is almost the same as the QS, and as such, the awakened form did not have to change at all. As for Roxanne, I've pointed this out in a previous post, but it's quite possible that the "beautiful sword technique" employed whip-like arm movements and that the rain of claws was not unlike how Roxanne utilized the BoE when she delivered that fateful blow to Cassandra. They were essentially pointed structures aimed to the ground, and they were able to catch Cassandra's very low, agile movements just like the original skill. Then again, this could all just be forced associations in order to fit the theory.
A variation of the second theory would be Nixl's own supposition, that the technique must be originally created in order to have the benefit of having it added to an AB's form.
Last edited by Fermat; June 27, 2012 at 08:36 PM. Reason: grammatical and punctuation errors
But the other point I was trying to make was just the fact that there is no tension anymore. It just seems like Yagi uses the dragon balls to un-screw the things that get thrown at the Ghosts. As for me rage quitting lol no I don't quit that easy I'm here till the bitter end.
Last edited by TheRussianMeatClob; June 27, 2012 at 09:36 PM. Reason: Fermat made a Great Point
To be Honest there has to be Deaths of some of these charaters now. Because It is now truly ghosts vs an Abyssal one now. No destroyer or anything to interfere now, Like it or not Cassandra is a very powerful AO, she did kill Hysteria and Roxanne out right. I really don't want something to bale them out this time.
I doubt that there is one member here that doesn't like Yuma. She has that naive well to do personality that all of us want to see mature into that fine formidable warrior that is currently hidden behind all that self doubt. However, her death would haven't much impact on the story. If either Helen or Deneve died, it would perilously affect the other. In addition, both served with Miria for a long time. Our Lady of Illusions would not fare well, should either die, especially if under her command during battle.
Like some of you, I will echo Rimulto's musings to Dae. The dead should remain dead. I do not want to see Irene, Teresa, Renee or any fallen character come back to life. It's apparent from my avatar that I favor Miria. However, I have thought about Claymore would have continued, had compassion not stayed the other warriors' swords.