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Thread: Question about Rafaela

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    Question about Rafaela

    Well as far as we know, Claymore do eventually awaken due to them reaching their limits generally within their generation of 47 warriors, but somehow Rafaela managed to live through the Luciela generation, the Theresa generation and the Clare generation. How is that so? Did the failed pairing with the Soul Link with her sister extended her lifespan as a Claymore? How old was she when she "died"?

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Ryus's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Rafaela

    Quote Originally Posted by cprimm View Post
    Well as far as we know, Claymore do eventually awaken due to them reaching their limits generally within their generation of 47 warriors, but somehow Rafaela managed to live through the Luciela generation, the Theresa generation and the Clare generation. How is that so? Did the failed pairing with the Soul Link with her sister extended her lifespan as a Claymore? How old was she when she "died"?
    Irene and Clare explained this, Clare to Raki in ch 4 and Irene remind Clare of it when they talked about how Irene hadnt aged. Simply put if you supress your yoki and just live as a human you'll never awaken but never age either. So the ghosts never got close to this point in there years of solitude and niether did Irene or Rafaela. Plus nothing now will stop the new gen warriors, the ghosts, Galatea, etc from suppressing their yoku again to avoid that fate (assuming it doesnt happen between now and once there yoki is fully suppressed.)

    Now of note due to Raphaela we can logically assume supressing your yoki for years wont overcome the yoma virus in their body and brains... unless a few hundred years are required to do it (Im assuming even Raphaela isnt that old lol). So the warriors will likely need to find some other "cure" which imho wont be so much a cure but just overcoming the negative effects likely by doing soming similar to a half awakening mixed with years of supressong their yoki. I believe Deneve gave us a hint of this by saying her yoki felt different after supressing it for years but then releasing it, likely the human mind can slowly adapt to the virus if given enough time. Miria only starting to awaken once she choose to vs Hysteria and Clare reverting after awakening her limbs against Priscilla maybe further hints of this (or just polt induced bs for epic fights).

    Of course the 200 year life span of the Dragons brings into question if they just age so slowly by human standards they dont appear to age but actually do... however that is a different debate for another time.
    Last edited by Ryus; May 08, 2012 at 01:39 PM.

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    Re: Question about Rafaela

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryus View Post
    I believe Deneve gave us a hint of this by saying her yoki felt different after supressing it for years but then releasing it, likely the human mind can slowly adapt to the virus if given enough time.
    Don't want to be picky, but a Yoma is more of a parasite than a virus

    And well, I actually thought about the adapting stuff, too. I daresay that the process of awakening has absolutely nothing to do with the Yoki itself but it is more like letting the "inner Yoma" take control by borrowing the Yoki actually he brought into the Body. The adaption theory also makes sense from another point of view: We have seen Priscilla go berserk when using her Yoki for the very first time since she just had no experience in using it and therefore her parasite (yep, Claymore are made with Yoma-flesh and therefore it's likely that it acts as a parasite) was able to take control in no time. On the other hand that would mean the more often you use your Yoki the less likely it is that you awaken. I wonder if a partial awakening is also a step of adapting... if there is something like adapting, fo course.

    Ah, I'm spouting to much here, got a fanfiction to write...


    kstefan88

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    Re: Question about Rafaela

    thanks for clearing that up for me. i really hope this series doesnt end

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member SaphG1's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Rafaela

    My guess is that its the utilization of Yoki that produces the urge to Awaken. A Claymore that suppresses their Yoki could be said to have a longer shelf life but would eventually awaken. Irene and Refaela along with the ghosts do show that their is correlation between the usage of Yoki and the awakening process but as to exact numbers, that might vary from person to person. Clare also showed that on some level awakening can be halted entirely by subconscious factors. In theory both the suppressing of Yoki and or having strong mental discipline could keep a Claymore from awakening for a very long time. Mental (spirit) type Claymores like Irene and Jean (for example) who also suppressed their yoki could probably go most their lifespans without awakening.


    Quote Quote:
    Don't want to be picky, but a Yoma is more of a parasite than a virus

    And well, I actually thought about the adapting stuff, too. I daresay that the process of awakening has absolutely nothing to do with the Yoki itself but it is more like letting the "inner Yoma" take control by borrowing the Yoki actually he brought into the Body. The adaption theory also makes sense from another point of view: We have seen Priscilla go berserk when using her Yoki for the very first time since she just had no experience in using it and therefore her parasite (yep, Claymore are made with Yoma-flesh and therefore it's likely that it acts as a parasite) was able to take control in no time. On the other hand that would mean the more often you use your Yoki the less likely it is that you awaken. I wonder if a partial awakening is also a step of adapting... if there is something like adapting, fo course.

    Ah, I'm spouting to much here, got a fanfiction to write...


    kstefan88
    Just for reference sake, there is no saying that Claymores themselves have the same parasitic organism in there bodies that Yoma do. The mixture of DoD flesh types from their awakened and standard form produces a parasitic organism of a sort.

    Human + Parasitic organism = Yoma

    The Yoma is in essence a new creature, not human and not DoD parasite.

    Yoma flesh + Human= Claymore

    As far as we know there is no parasite inside the Claymore body. Flesh from the new hybrid creature is used to create the claymore, further hybridizing it. "Yoma flesh" is used to create Claymores meaning the flesh of the blended creature i.e. the transformed host, not the parasite itself. If Claymores were just human + Parasite then Yoma wouldn't exist, they would all just be claymores.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Ryus's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Rafaela

    Oh wow, are we really arguing this?

    First off kstefan88 by definition all viruses are parasites, so saying it's not like a virus but a parasite is just impossible since all viruses are parasites. I'm assuming your assuming that virus spread and aren't just the result of something being added to the body (aka more akin to a living creature). Sadly this isn't the case, some viruses you'd never catch even if making out with someone infected. It really only comes down to how the virus transmits itself, clearly yoma isn't airborn or something crazy like that or gets on anything someone touches and then spreads from there, however lets say it's more like HIV (a level 2 on scale on 1 - 4 infectious rates) or something with even weaker transmission rate (level 1) like E. coli.

    All we know is that it is a result of mixing the two fleshes... does that make them like some super poison epoxy or does something on the viral level mix which does the transformation in humans. All we know is that it infects the brain and from there the body and that the flesh of two beings is involved to make the change. However I personally see the change as a result of something non sentient which just changes it's host, not something wearing the human like a new set of clothes... which is why I choose to say virus and not parasite. That makes it sound like it could jump hosts which isn't confirmed yet, since we don't know how Zaki or any other victim was "taken over" (except those at the hidden lab in the north I suppose). I just wanna say though we don't know which is more accurate at this point in time so further debate is kinda pointless.

    Really though I doubt it's either a true virus or a true parasitic creature, since a virus could potentially infect everyone for a long time after the hosts death if given the right conditions, yet a parasitic creature could survive a bit outside of it's host and a Claymore would have sensed one by now when it scurried about looking for a new host. Whatever it is is more a mix of the two with some magic thrown in, imho both terms work for now.

    However SaphG1 is right the Claymore flesh is clearly a new "creature" vs a Yoma since whatever it is, has "adapted" and changed as a result of mixing with a human.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member SaphG1's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Rafaela

    Quote Quote:
    Oh wow, are we really arguing this?
    lol

    A discussion doesn't have to be an argument we're talking about it not fighting over it I'd say. Let them(us) eat cake

    I was only responding in afterthought after giving my opinion on Rafaela and those like her in context to the question ^^ I didn't mean to hijack the thread.

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    Re: Question about Rafaela

    I see, so every virus is considered a parasite, but that is not true the other way around. Just read that they are divided in micro and macro parasites and the former can be viruses, but the latter are clearly not (flea, tapeworm and stuff). I wonder why Yagi should have used the term Parasite if he was actually talking about a virus (assuming that the translation is correct). And yep, now I am being picky

    However, the result of mixing the flesh of a normal and an awakened DoD should be a pulp of meat, most likely dead (Priscilla's arm showed us that even dead tissue can have Yoki). And I don't assume that something dead can act as a parasite or a virus. In the end it seems to be Yoki. And the latter seems to be part of the tissue and not of the mind. Damn that sucks *gotte think over a lot of stuff -.-*
    I wonder, why Yoki is able to corrupt a human's mind, however. I mean, from this point of view It's unlikely that there is something like a second mind in a Yoma or Claymore that will eventually supress the human mind. On the other hand I can't imagine how Energy (and Yoki is about that, if I am right) will turn someone into a gut eating monster.

    kstefan88
    Last edited by kstefan88; May 09, 2012 at 09:46 AM.

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    Re: Question about Rafaela

    i honestly think the authors dont even know what goes on with the implantation, which is why we never saw the scars or implantation of it. but all i can figure is that the blood or cells of the dragonkin must overtake human bodies and replace it with its own, but not altering the outer body. I would assume the mitochondria in the cells are where the yoki in the claymore come from

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    Re: Question about Rafaela

    In the first chapter when we meet Clare and Raki, the first yoma that is introduced is Raki's older brother Zaki. On page 36 Zaki states that he ate Raki's brother, his body and brain whole. On the next page he states that in doing so, it is the only way that he can use Zaki's memory and thinking patterns, and that this is why humans cannot detect "us" meaning yoma. He goes on further to give the impression that he as a yoma had merely travelled to the town, taken in Zaki to become a regular member of the town and would have soon moved on if not for Clare's arrival.

    To fit with the new theory that a yoma is created by infecting them that would mean that Zaki had been taken away (which we will never know as Raki does not mention anything else when telling Clare that his parents were the first to die) and transformed into a yoma, then returned to his village / home and subsequently forgotten that he was initially a human.

    This theory could work as I would bet that the organisation would not want a yoma to remember being human before or that they had been traumatically changed into a monster. But also could be left to the interpretation as cprimm states, that perhaps the authors were not sure when they first began the series.

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