Gantz 365 Discussion/366 Prediction Thread

[Damura]

I'd agree if they were aliens, but they are not from what we know: they are simply humans infected by a weird virus/advanced technology. Nothing to do with the initial Gantz story of aliens hunt.

We don't know what they really are but they actually have plenty to do with Gantz. First of all they've got the sci-fi thing going on there with the nanobots. Secret technology selecting and empowering random people? Sound familiar? So who are these people? We know they have pretty significant ties to Gantz. Were they aliens from a previous, unsuccessful hunt? Does that mean the nanobots are aliens? Or are they something else? They know a LOT about the Gantz tech. They can track the 'games' somehow, they know the suits weakpoint and they have their own technology to counter the Gantz tech's invisibility.

We also know they can apparently pick and choose who they want to add into their ranks. Was it a coincidence that they picked up Kurono's brother? How much do they know, where do they get their information from and where the hell are they now? If they're aliens from another planet they probably know who the giants are. Fra said herself that many aliens were running from something.

I think the vampires fit into the story perfectly. They added a new mystery to the story and a lot of insight into the way Gantz operates. Would appreciate if they were expanded upon in future though.

Kurono, and I already cited him in my post. He could take boss aliens on his own and without a suit. Of course, not always, but he did with a few bosses, which is already quite an exception on its own.

He hasn't taken on a single boss fight and won actually. He's been killed or defeated or cornered every single time. Except maybe that tanaka boss, I can't remember. Weak as fuck anyway if he did.

And I'm not saying he's the only one, maybe others are capable too now (I more specifically think about some of the Kei2's team members), but we haven't seen them very much so we can't know for now.

We know Mary took on two bone monsters in the time Kei and Katou took with one. We know the guy with the swords is extremely dangerous. Hard to say about the rest of them but they have been able to quickly pick up the slack whenever Kei has fumbled against the giants.

I agree that they're not all badass, but they had a pretty good level without any real training (at least any Gantz survivor had to fight an alien, but when you become a Vampire, you don't have any training, or at least Oku did not show them).

Vampires have training. They have a system where all the rewards are based on how well you can fight. They practice all the time. With that said though they do have naturally superior reflexes and strength and regen etc. Their over-confidence fucked them pretty bad a couple of times.

Yes, he's using a lot of real-life entities to mock them and pastiche them, but then Vampires are simply a cut-n-paste of the current mainstream vampires mythology. They are not even based on the original vampires mythology (that is completely different than modern's), and he did not even "alienalize" them. Of course, if they had been alienized a little bit, it would have been better fitted to the story, but here that's not the case, so it makes me wonder why Oku chose to add them in the manga in this form.

Not really. The mythology is different (nanobots?) and the Gantz world is a parallel to the real one, so vampires are well known. They were likened to vampires because of the known traits of vampires.

Doesn't matter whether these vampires draw on the 'original vampire' or not. It's a matter of personal taste which one you prefer but either way the concept has been ripped from somewhere. In any case it fits with the idea that aliens may have been responsible for certain entities throughout history (Osaka aliens represent gods, etc.).

Oku didn't need to alienise them because they are not aliens. They're humans first. Akira is evidence of that.

A good story is based on a coherent universe, even if the premises are totally improbable. Look Alice in Wonderland: a girl falling into a rabbit's hole. But then the story is totally coherent once you've accepted the premises! Same for Matrix! Now, try to add a vampire in Alice in Wonderland, it would look totally uncoherent, unless it's really implemented into the story.

Matrix did this, it implemented pseudo-vampires, but they were presented as ancient programs that survived from earlier darker versions of the Matrix. Good, simple and well-thought fit, it just works and it's coherent.

Lol what? First time I've heard the bad guys in the Matrix described as vampires. I don't feel that the vamps stand out of place here. It was a great way to show how the 'enemy' live. Just accept the premise that there is more than one kind of advanced technology floating around in the Gantz world. I don't really see why it doesn't fit when we know so little about the aliens anyway.

As for the psychics... I guess it just turns out that they 'happen'. No need for a reason, some people just have psychic powers. And that's apparently how the germans got their technology unless the reporter guy discovers something new.

Oku realized this was a really bad idea he had and backtracked, thus coming back to the roots (aliens vs Gantz).

You're projecting here. That's a baseless accusation tbh.

---------- Post added at 12:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 PM ----------

fun fact, the reason why Oku wants to end gantz this year due to a recent bill that publishers are trying to pass that gives them full rights of the author's story. Which is why many author's/manga writers are trying to end some of their series early this year.

Would explain the drop in quality lately. Wonder if it will pass. Surely it wouldn't affect current contracts with any company would it?

Out of curiosity is this thing solely Oku's creation? He has a team of assistants doesn't he, so don't they have some of the rights too?

---------- Post added at 12:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:39 PM ----------

I thought the statement that he wanted to end the manga this year was not to be taken literally. As in, he wasn't actually going to go through with it. After everything we've seen this year I'm not so sure

[EliteBeatAgents]

@dake360

http://astronerdboy.blogspot.com/201...eason-ken.html
basically it's apart of the japan copyright law, from what I'm told some manga writers are trying to wrap it before this bill pass.

[grosbedo]

Ok about vampires, I see your point about the potential behind Vampires if a good storyline is constructed behind, but for now it's just random stuff mixed together without any obvious (at least none that Oku cared to explain). I hope too that these will be developed further before the end of the manga.

He hasn't taken on a single boss fight and won actually. He's been killed or defeated or cornered every single time. Except maybe that tanaka boss, I can't remember. Weak as fuck anyway if he did.

Onion boss, Tanaka boss, Shorty (killed them all, including the last serial killer one), Dinosaure boss. We could also mention the Big Buddha which was kind of a boss on its own, even if it wasn't the "real" final boss.

Vampires have training. They have a system where all the rewards are based on how well you can fight. They practice all the time.

Uh? I think I missed that part. Could you please point me to a ref?

Not really. The mythology is different (nanobots?) and the Gantz world is a parallel to the real one, so vampires are well known. They were likened to vampires because of the known traits of vampires.

The traits make the vampires in modern vampire's mythology. And yes nanobots are also a standard trope to replace virus (see zombies movies, either it's a biochemical virus, either nanobots). And I'm pretty sure nanobots were already used for vampires as well prior to Oku.

Oku didn't need to alienise them because they are not aliens. They're humans first. Akira is evidence of that.

Then it needs more clarification and storyline to get coherent with the Gantz universe. The premise of Gantz is to be hyper-realistic and nihilistic. If you begin to throw in all kinds of superpowers without any explanation, these premises just fall flat...

Lol what? First time I've heard the bad guys in the Matrix described as vampires.

I am not talking about Agents, but about Vampires that you get to see in Matrix Revolution (chateau battle vampires vs neo, or Persephone's guards), and much more in the derivated games.

I don't really see why it doesn't fit when we know so little about the aliens anyway.

As you said these are not aliens, so these need either explanations or it can't fit with the original premises.

You're projecting here. That's a baseless accusation tbh.

Maybe, we'll see when the manga ends. And honestly I hope I'm wrong.

----

@dake360

http://astronerdboy.blogspot.com/201...eason-ken.html
basically it's apart of the japan copyright law, from what I'm told some manga writers are trying to wrap it before this bill pass.

Thank's a lot for the link and the news, this indeed explains a lot of things going on currently in the manga industry.

[Damura]

Onion boss, Tanaka boss, Shorty (killed them all, including the last serial killer one), Dinosaure boss. We could also mention the Big Buddha which was kind of a boss on its own, even if it wasn't the "real" final boss.

Wasn't a boss level alien and they still beat him. Broke his arms and he fled for the rest of the mission. Dinosaur boss would have killed him without intervention from the old man and Izumi. Buddha kicked his ass. That giant one wasn't that strong and only gave him 5 points. Seriously, anyone could beat it these days. Nishi beat the onion boss.

Uh? I think I missed that part. Could you please point me to a ref?

It wasn't training per se but we can see them in their little clubhouse or whatever getting into fights regularly. Plus HS was able to challenge Akira for his 'victim'. It was my impression that the vampires live in this environment that favors the strong.

The traits make the vampires in modern vampire's mythology. And yes nanobots are also a standard trope to replace virus (see zombies movies, either it's a biochemical virus, either nanobots). And I'm pretty sure nanobots were already used for vampires as well prior to Oku.

Nanobot zombies? Never heard of them but if they exist, it's irrelevant. Are we really going to nitpick about what has been done before? It's 2012. Everything has been done before. Especially aliens.

Then it needs more clarification and storyline to get coherent with the Gantz universe. The premise of Gantz is to be hyper-realistic and nihilistic. If you begin to throw in all kinds of superpowers without any explanation, these premises just fall flat...

I think it's fine the way it is, though it came very close to being too much around the time they introduced the vamps, Kaze and Cherry all at the same time. Kaze to me is the worst offender here. Some mysterious hobo wandering from school to school looking for the strongest little boy? Strange enough, but his unlikely physical proportions were a joke. As a character he's totally unbelievable. Would take the psychics and the vamps over him any day.

I don't see the vampires as just handing out superpowers left and right. They're weaker than Gantzers and have a huge vulnerability with the sunlight thing. Kaze and Cherry were bigger problems in this regard.

I am not talking about Agents, but about Vampires that you get to see in Matrix Revolution (chateau battle vampires vs neo, or Persephone's guards), and much more in the derivated games.

Oh. Haha, I had completely forgotten about them. They were just minor characters weren't they? Bunch of assholes posing as some sort of posh vampires. I can't even remember what role they played but they sound more out of place there than the vampires in Gantz do...

As you said these are not aliens, so these need either explanations or it can't fit with the original premises.

No, they might still be aliens. But they're still human. Humans with an alien symbiote thing, or humans with nanobots. And they are possibly led by 'proper' aliens given their technology and knowledge about Gantz.

It is not as though the premise was fully established in the first few chapters. The fact was there was very little information provided about how anything works. This leaves a lot of room for new stuff like the vampires, like the psychics and like the giants. For all we know Gantz created the nanobots. I agree that there should be more info on them by the end of the manga but up til now it has been working.

[TCG]

@dake360

http://astronerdboy.blogspot.com/201...eason-ken.html
basically it's apart of the japan copyright law, from what I'm told some manga writers are trying to wrap it before this bill pass.

I've had this discussion on another forum pertaining to Claymore. Although you do raise a good point, this is practically scaremongering and isn't something that can be passed off as fact. What's more, the actual article you posted relates to a single series, whose mangaka is a known activist against this law. The actions of one activist in the industry do not provide an accurate representation of everyone else in the industry.

fun fact, the reason why Oku wants to end gantz this year due to a recent bill that publishers are trying to pass that gives them full rights of the author's story. Which is why many author's/manga writers are trying to end some of their series early this year.

Extrapolation. We don't know why Oku wishes to end Gantz this year, and it's looking more and more likely that it won't end until next year at least.

Also, which other series ended prematurely? Claymore was debunked, and Bakuman's ending seemed natural to me.

[Damura]

^

Hey all it takes is for the aliens to take off and everybody to either be wiped out or returned home. If he wants to end it it's that simple.

[grosbedo]

@Damura: Ah ok about the trainings, I've forgotten, but indeed this explains why they are better trained than most Gantzers and also why they outperform basic Gantzers despite their weaknesses.

About The Matrix, yes it felt a bit out of place, but this simple explanation of ealier darker matrices giving birth to strange aggressive programs still makes the universe coherent per se (it was even cited since the first Matrix movie, agent Smith explaining to Morpheus that the first Matrix was heaven, and second was kind of Hell). And yes they were minor in the movies, but in derivative games and medias they took a more important place (this is what allowed to extend quite a bit the universe of The Matrix).

And no, not everything has been done before, this is a fallacious argument. For a contemporary counter-example, see Doctor Who new series, or H2G2. Both are VERY innovative.

Let's hope Oku will develop the storyline. Gantz can become a cult manga if it ends properly.

[Damura]

1. Ah ok about the trainings, I've forgotten, but indeed this explains why they are better trained than most Gantzers and also why they outperform basic Gantzers despite their weaknesses.

2. And no, not everything has been done before, this is a fallacious argument. For a contemporary counter-example, see Doctor Who new series, or H2G2. Both are VERY innovative.

1. Well the vampires aren't that good... they lose every time they challenge the Gantzers, with the exception of their first encounter when they had the opportunity to surprise them. If it came down to it any one of the current cast could take on the average vampire. The top vampires though are experienced and ruthless. Tough to take down and possibly more skilled, but the Gantzers can take quite a few hits before the suit dies..

2. What is H2G2? Can you provide some specific examples (1 or 2) for DW that I could look up, just to get a sense of what you're talking about?

[grosbedo]

@Damura:
In fact, I think that now any Gantzer can take on any Vampire since they are pretty much all the same level as Izumi was (Tier 3 aliens invasion raised the level quite a bit to my opinion), and Izumi probably could have killed HS if it wasn't for his girlfriend. But when they were introduced, they were clearly presented as badass nemesis for Gantzer.

H2G2 stands for The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams (famous for introducing the 42 meme, towel meme and the depressive robot, amongst other things). I don't have any particular examples, everything is quite innovative about DW and H2G2.

But if you want me to precise what I meant by "innovative", I am not telling that everything should be made from scratch, of course cultural references can be used, but they need to be introduced in another forms that makes them original.

As an analogy, let's say that a remix of a song with totally new instruments or new parts and melodies is innovative, while a remix with just a pop drums and exactly the same melody and lyrics is simply a ripoff.

[TCG]

^

Hey all it takes is for the aliens to take off and everybody to either be wiped out or returned home. If he wants to end it it's that simple.

I've been satisfied with Gantz as a manga since the end of Phase 2. I knew, going into Phase 3, that if it was good, it would enhance my enjoyment of Gantz, but if it was bad, it wouldn't degrade everything that had been previously established. Maybe by the conventions of literature, but after Osaka and Italy, I'm genuinely content. Gantz's overall quality and my enjoyment of it aren't precariously balanced on the finale. I'm looking forwards to it, especialy seeing how Oku said it's going to be like akin to masturbation in volume 17's omake, but if the ending does suck, I'll be ''meh,'' before re-reading my favourite missions as usual.

[Shion Izumi]

In regards to the vampires I truly believe that Oku had different plans at Phase 2. He was building up HS as Gantzers that would have conflict with Katou and company trying to rez Kurono. If you read the begging of the Osaka mission he was fighting all the Gantzers and figuring out the mission structure. He was going to be the Izumi of Phase 2. It seems like after the Osaka mission Oku just rushed to the final phase and didn't bother going with the mission structure of classic Gantz where the goal of Phase 2 would to bring back Kurono. Oku really should have built upon that, than start the final phase. He should have had Host Samurai get the 100 points just to see what he would have done. He would lose his memory if freed which would be useless to the vampire organization and leave Kill Bill behind or maybe he would have gotten the 100 point weapon.

Bottom line is that Oku had different plans for the vamps as they were obviously rivals with the Gantzers, possibly at one time they were hunted because the instructor referred to Gantzers as "vampire hunters".

[Shenduk]

Not only Kei1 destroys Nishi with one blow, Tae survives again in a ridiculous way. The couple goes on for the retarded cause of saving their enemies.

Seriously, that's not just stupid anymore, it's offensive. I feel offended by Oku, having to read such a shit.

Nowadays Gantz is just a shadow of what it was.

[gryphonZark]

Ok I can bullshit on giant aliens same as us argument....the GIANT aliens know we have a language, and even ave translated local dialects and and talk to us at it appears the similar intelligence level, and they shell humans like prawns, eat them etc....there is no way the human race is the same as the aliens, thier is no proof we eat things that can talk back on our level in RL or Gantz....

They however casually snack away in their makas while knowing they can talk to us

BS argument....I have lost some respect of gantz, tae sucks (except to show us living quarters of liens), Nishi is the only one that actually is useful and even strategies to get tae back...the only possibility is TAE is actually indestructible and can take the universe through suicide out with her KEI CHANS...hell nishi even had a plan to take tae out of the picture for a while to get KEI to man up and hae to quit worrying about her.....I really wanted to see some sexual experimentation/forced sex by FRA on KEI that would have been GANTZ...I think OKU is going ti have to revist and rewrite this ending in about 10 years....when he realises what he has done...he wont be able to sleep at night to see where he could have gone versus what he did

---------- Post added at 11:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:39 PM ----------

I add I think the Catastrophe arc has the / had the most potential becuase of the worl wide nature, the groups and the implication the aliens were on the run from their planet being detroyed or something esle, also it maybe they are on the run from gantz...gantz maybe a universal system...not how it tried different species as ganzters

[Gantzter127]

appeared to end: at the end of the Italian mission. HS's words after that mission of no longer being passionate about wanting to kill the Hunters seemed like a resolution.

Exactly. They saw the pain and suffering that the Gantzers went through and saw that they were no different from any other human-being with no choice what so ever to participate in these games that took place; they felt sorry for them, thus coming to a peace agreement with the hosts (well not really, they just left with smirks on their faces) . But maybe in the future they will come back, or maybe in the last couple of chapters we'll see them fighting against the aliens and then joining Kato's team for some particular reason. Personally I would like to see Hikawa back in action and kicking some alien ass. ^^

[Shion Izumi]

I am in agreement with everyone that Kei saving the giants is down right offensive. The bad has far, far...................................................................far outweighed the good. These are beings that have committed some of the worst crimes I have ever seen against humanity. Destroyed most of Earth, eating humans, torturing humans, locking humans in cages, killing everyone's family, killing hot chicks like Reika....I can go on and on, and Kei 1 just wants to save them? WTF. There would be nothing more satisfying than seeing the destruction of these giants. Never have I wanted to see an enemy die more than now. They are 100% irredeemable and must be destroyed in the most violent fashion.