Naruto 586 Discussion

[SlimJ87D]

A lot of you guys are forgetting that the sharingan arm required the cells of the first hokage. Tobi would have to prepare that as well.

I don't know of Tobi had that much time to prepare that many eyes and implant the first hokages cells, make those other bodies and implant the rinnegan.

[toussaintac]

A lot of you guys are forgetting that the sharingan arm required the cells of the first hokage. Tobi would have to prepare that as well.

I don't know of Tobi had that much time to prepare that many eyes and implant the first hokages cells, make those other bodies and implant the rinnegan.

You do realize Tobi has that already in Zetsu substance he uses to hold himself together right? That's why he's able to hold Izanagi so long before his eye closes. Also, I think it's been explained that you don't need Senju genes to perform the technique. Only to extend the time. Otherwise, it would make sense for Izanami to require Senju, but it doesn't.

[amariw]

I don't think Tobi can use Izanami.

Itachi can use it and he has no senju cells, meaning it's most likely a really strong, but Yin-Release only tech, it's speciallity being the ability to affect the opponent regardless of his five senses. (However, it seems that Itachi must maintain contact with the victim, even if the victim cannot feel anything through the sense of touch or the other senses).

Izanagi was outright stated and used only by ninjas capable of Yin-Yang Release (Danzo and Tobi), and it actually changed their own reality (specifically, recreated themselves after turning them into illusions). Izanami so far seems to be merely genjutsu, so it doesn't need to require senju cells.

HOWEVER, during all of the chapters since the fight began, namely after he mentioned Izanagi, he has kept his MS active whereas sasuke didn't (and both didn't kept su'sano up continually so its very possible he did it for a reason). My theory is that Izanami requires the sacrifice of Mangekyou eyes (or EMS, or a Rinnegan that was awakened from EMS and can use MS abilities like Madara's, but unlike Nagato, even if Nagato and Madara's eyes were the same ones).

This is supported mainly by the fact we have not seen any sharingan user use this sacrifice (which, like Izanagi, could help shift impossible odds) despite the fact a ninja with no senju cells is seen using it now. So the reason for that is most likely other requirements we aren't told of quite yet.

[toussaintac]

Izanami and Izanagi are of the same level. Neither requires Senju genes, but having the genes would (likely in Izanami's case) make the technique better. If you look at it, they both form a loop where the user can't be defeated. Izanagi, the user keeps coming back. Izanami, it seems like they will repeat whatever period of time over and over but real time will still be passing. I imagine that is why it is able to counter Izanagi. We just don't know what restrictions are on Izanami yet and they may not be revealed until another fight. Itachi kept his MS active the whole time because he was going to need Susanoo at any time. Tobi likely doesn't have MS to begin with. His phasing technique has been Izanagi. Danzou has MS but it was on cooldown when he was using Izanagi. Izanami and Izanagi are said to seal a sharingan after use. I doubt it matters if it's regular, MS, or EMS(!) and that's why it's forbidden.

[llamapie]

A lot of you guys are forgetting that the sharingan arm required the cells of the first hokage. Tobi would have to prepare that as well.

I don't know of Tobi had that much time to prepare that many eyes and implant the first hokages cells, make those other bodies and implant the rinnegan.

A good lot of Tobi's body is made of zetsu goo (1st hokage). He already used Izanagi against konan, so really if he did take Danzou's idea I think most of the eyes will be implanted across his body. I really don't think its his style though.

[M3J]

Why do people think Sasuke will use Izanami or Izanagi, at least on Naruto? If anything, he'll use it on Tobi considering the price to be paid. Doubt Kishi would allow Sasuke to use that on Naruto, as it'd take TONS of plot for Naruto to win.

Guess Kishi's going for speed to finish this arc or fight for some reason. <_<

[xXan]

@M3J

Izanagi:
A few seconds of god mode. Not winning the fight for him (asuming he does not end up with some senju DNA).
No senju DNA and it last for "the briefest of moments".

Izanami:
What clone out of 30 or so is he going to pick to sacrifice his eye over? Considering what he would risk he would need to be a real idiot to do it.

No plot needed as long as the plot ITSELF is not keeping Naruto from using his skills to the fullest.

[SlimJ87D]

Why do people think Sasuke will use Izanami or Izanagi, at least on Naruto? If anything, he'll use it on Tobi considering the price to be paid. Doubt Kishi would allow Sasuke to use that on Naruto, as it'd take TONS of plot for Naruto to win.

Guess Kishi's going for speed to finish this arc or fight for some reason. <_<

Yeah i know about the zetsus but it's not just the cells but what ever procedure Oro did for Danzo too right? I doubt Kabuto put the eyes on Tobi.

[Shinomori Aoshi]

Izanami and Izanagi are of the same level. Neither requires Senju genes, but having the genes would (likely in Izanami's case) make the technique better. If you look at it, they both form a loop where the user can't be defeated. Izanagi, the user keeps coming back. Izanami, it seems like they will repeat whatever period of time over and over but real time will still be passing. I imagine that is why it is able to counter Izanagi. We just don't know what restrictions are on Izanami yet and they may not be revealed until another fight. Itachi kept his MS active the whole time because he was going to need Susanoo at any time. Tobi likely doesn't have MS to begin with. His phasing technique has been Izanagi. Danzou has MS but it was on cooldown when he was using Izanagi. Izanami and Izanagi are said to seal a sharingan after use. I doubt it matters if it's regular, MS, or EMS(!) and that's why it's forbidden.

This was a mistranslation, the more precise one being 'these two jutsu form a pair', which means that

Izanami and Izanagi are of the same level.

It's like the mistranslation that 'the sword of Totsuka is the perfect counter for the sword of Kusanagi', the correct one being 'the sword of Totsuka is a variant of the sword of Kusanagi'.

[laxmonster]

I loved the ending.....Itachi treating Kabuto......"who is your Daddy"!

I really am looking forward to the discussion between Itachi and Sasuke...at first I thought this flash back sequence was crappy but then way it ended made it very good.

I am sure though that Kabuto will drop the ET and then Sasuke will be waiting for him and be like ....bam....I am Emerel......and were eating Dragon ala Ameratsu

[llamapie]

Why do people think Sasuke will use Izanami or Izanagi, at least on Naruto? If anything, he'll use it on Tobi considering the price to be paid. Doubt Kishi would allow Sasuke to use that on Naruto, as it'd take TONS of plot for Naruto to win.

Guess Kishi's going for speed to finish this arc or fight for some reason. <_<

Sasuke will never use it unless he has to, the cost is an eye. He's too emo to lose his eyes.

[laxmonster]

IDK about that.....when he is in those mad crazzed moods I am not so sure he wouldn't sacrifice and eye.

[Ottawagakure]

Seems the spores that Zetsu left on Kabuto will be irrelevant in the end, now Kabuto must decide his fate and end the loop.

[laxmonster]

I wonder if the spores will let Tobi know that Kabuto is in a bad state?

[toussaintac]

This was a mistranslation, the more precise one being 'these two jutsu form a pair', which means that

It's like the mistranslation that 'the sword of Totsuka is the perfect counter for the sword of Kusanagi', the correct one being 'the sword of Totsuka is a variant of the sword of Kusanagi'.

If it was a mistranslation it's a very good one becuase the way Izanami works, it should allow you to beat Izanagi. That's all I was saying with that comment. I kind of makes sense that a pair of techniques would likely be able to counter each other.

---------- Post added at 08:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:53 AM ----------

Sasuke will never use it unless he has to, the cost is an eye. He's too emo to lose his eyes.

I definitely don't see Sasuke using Izanagi or Izanami on Naruto. I would hope that they have the same results as far as sealing, no matter if you have Sharingan, MS, or EMS. At the most, I'd accept there being some kind of 10 year cool down if you have EMS and you would have a regular sharingan for that time. Of course, who knows what would happen if Sasuke got Senju genes.

It could be the case that Itachi will use his remaining eye on Tobi or Kabuto breaks out of Izanami somehow and Itachi uses his last eye to make sure he gets the job done right. However, Itachi should be a lot weaker now and will not be able to use Susanoo or Amaterasu/Tsukiyomi(not sure which) to fight anymore. But there's always the case that he can use them all given that he awakened them already and may not need both eyes. Time will tell.

Seems the spores that Zetsu left on Kabuto will be irrelevant in the end, now Kabuto must decide his fate and end the loop.

I wonder if the spores will let Tobi know that Kabuto is in a bad state?

I don't think Kishi has forgotten that. People always think Kishi forgets about something. Before we know it, he brings us back to it. I'll be interested in seeing exactly what happens and what the spores do.