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Thread: Did Kabuto need Tobi At All???

  1. #1
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member RezzieThaRapper's Avatar
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    Did Kabuto need Tobi At All???

    It seems that Kabuto didn't need Tobi at all, and it is becoming very apparent with the recent chapters... In fact Kabuto has carried the entire war with his techniques... It seems Tobi is only the face(through Madara's name), and Kabuto is the power/tactical wit/power broker


    Let's compare what they have done...

    Tobi - Started the war he was ill prepared for, attacked Konan and was nearly killed, stole Negato's eye, and borrowed 6 ETs and fitted them with Pein Rods and lost with them and is now fighting solo against the Fantastic Four (Naruto, Kakashi, Killer Bee, Gai)

    Kabuto - Gave Tobi the ability to have an army by kidnapping Yamato, Made an mini Edo Tensei army to back up the bland Zetsu army, let Tobi have the Jins for his Pein, and forced the 5 Kages into a corner and the Uchiha Bros into a corner(at least at the time this is written)


    If Kabuto had not helped Tobi...

    - He'd have no army
    - He'd have to rely on Genjutsu'd Biju
    - He'd have only Zetsu and Sasuke as main fighters
    - He'd stand no chance against a joint army, especially the Kage's
    - Let's be real, if Kabuto had not helped Tobi, Tobi would have been killed at the akatsuki hideout
    - Tobi wouldn't have his own 6 Paths, hell he'd rely on Sasuke too much only to be killed for weakness later on...


    If Kabuto went at this alone
    - He wouldn't have announced the war, he'd use his Edo army to decimate village after village with no opposition... (what village alone has enough power to stop him in Guerilla warfare)
    - Naruto and Killer Bee would have been captured on the turtle island
    - He'd have killed Tobi and captured Sasuke and Zetsu and the Biju's and the Rinnengan
    - He'd have an army he can hide at anytime, and escape capture because of his own powerful abilities



    why oh why does Kabuto feel he needs Tobi at all??!!??!!??
    I have an opinionDon't hate me for it...

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Did Kabuto need Tobi At All???

    Well, the issue at hand was that kabuto wanted sasuke who was conveniently protected by 100000 zetsu, 7 biju and a guy who is not a weak shinobi at all. His ET were without a doubt powerful however it is easier to get tobi to hand over sasuke than facing his little army. And to be fair, I doubt tobi even planned to use zetsu to win against the villages. What is to him a few zetsu or ninja's? Zetsu were able to perfectly copy the appearance and chakra of anyone remember? His plan was to use that to lure naruto out and unleash the biju on him. Kabuto did make that easier however we have seen the gedo mazo is perfectly capable of fighting so his original plan was likely to use it directly and take naruto out with his rinnengan.

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    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
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    Re: Did Kabuto need Tobi At All???

    Plot, like its plot that Kabuto doesn't summon Madara back, pwn Sasuke and Itachi so that Kabuto himself can take Sasuke as his lab pet.
    Like it is plot that Tobi didn't capture Naruto and/or Bee when they were sleeping, or like Deidara not using C0 over and over again thus winning the war by himself while other ET chilled in the background.

    Also Kabuto needed Tobi because a Tobi busy is better than a Tobi free to interfere, if Itachi didn't conveniently knew Izanami Kabuto probably would've obtained what he wanted, a fresh Uchiha body in Sasuke, ET still in function and the five Kages screwed.

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    Last Breath 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member 3c's Avatar
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    Re: Did Kabuto need Tobi At All???

    Quote Originally Posted by RezzieThaRapper View Post
    If Kabuto had not helped Tobi...

    - He'd have no army
    - He'd have to rely on Genjutsu'd Biju
    - He'd have only Zetsu and Sasuke as main fighters
    - He'd stand no chance against a joint army, especially the Kage's
    - Let's be real, if Kabuto had not helped Tobi, Tobi would have been killed at the akatsuki hideout
    - Tobi wouldn't have his own 6 Paths, hell he'd rely on Sasuke too much only to be killed for weakness later on...
    A flaw in your argument is that Tobi already had and could use the Zetsu army, with or without Kabuto. What Kabuto did was merely power up his army. Let's say Tobi's Zetsu Army individually had 80 power, and Kabuto boosted them to 100 = 20 increase in power.

    Like kkck said Tobi's plan was never to win the war man to man, or to overpower the Joint Army. His plan was to lure out Naruto, and that would have worked without Kabuto and a powered up Zetsu army. To be perfectly honest a super powered Gedo Mazo would have been way better than Pain 2.0 which Tobi even used poorly compared to Nagato. However Kishi himself is well aware of having to write illogical plot for the sake of story. He even said that he knows Deidara's potential, but had to write him out to prevent him from wiping out the armies on his own.

    Summarized Tobi's plan was always a huge gamble. Either he'd succeed with luring out Naruto and possibly taking him and Bee out, or he'd fail at either of those two stages and have his plan screwed up.

    What's really funny though, is the announcement of a war to begin with. It reminds me of the very first arc in Naruto where Kakashi schooled Naruto for being a noisy ninja who doesn't sneak attack but makes a flashy entrance. What Tobi did was idiotic unless he's going to pull a cliche 180 and tell them how he wanted to create peace by uniting the villages. Let's be honest. The one who is most responsible for uniting the world into a peaceful paradise is Tobi. He made them unite, and by having them go to war together he indirectly made them bond strongly. Tobi caused peace. He's a hero! (half joke).

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Hard Core Rikki's Avatar
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    Re: Did Kabuto need Tobi At All???

    Quote Quote:
    borrowed 6 ETs
    He made them himself as ETs answer to only their summoner.
    (he had the jinshurikis and their original bodies after all, still stored lifeless somewhere in his hideout)


    If Kabuto went at this alone
    If Tobi went at war without Kabuto around, he'd still have had:
    - zetsu army (cloning everyone touched)
    - black zetsu
    - heretic statue
    - rinnegan abilities, especially of revival (essentially all his capabilities), and sharingan tech of sucking people into his inner dimension.
    - the 8th tails' tentacle in his posession and possible to seal in the statue, only kyubi chakra remaning for his moon's eye plan to complete. Its been made clear often enough that winning the war or even survivability wasnt the objective of the conflict. The war capacity he had without Kabuto would've sufficed to lure Naruto (and bee) from hiding into meeting him.
    Last edited by Hard Core Rikki; May 10, 2012 at 02:10 PM.
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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member RezzieThaRapper's Avatar
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    Re: Did Kabuto need Tobi At All???

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Core Rikki View Post
    He made them himself as ETs answer to only their summoner.
    (he had the jinshurikis and their original bodies after all, still stored lifeless somewhere in his hideout)
    Well then there is a major loophole in what happened to the jin's Kabuto summoned... plus I thought that akatsuki had thrown the bodies away like with gaara after extraction...
    I have an opinionDon't hate me for it...

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    Re: Did Kabuto need Tobi At All???

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Core Rikki View Post
    He made them himself as ETs answer to only their summoner.
    (he had the jinshurikis and their original bodies after all, still stored lifeless somewhere in his hideout)
    Pain 2.0 were Edo Tensei. That has been confirmed through art work; inverted eyes. The Edo Tensei trademark of lines in their faces to indicate a body made up of ash. No blood and lastly regeneration.

    Do you really think Kishi would make another fight with the Jinchuuriki? It would be super boring. Not to mention their souls were still in their bodies, which they wouldn't if they were real corpses.

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Hard Core Rikki's Avatar
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    Re: Did Kabuto need Tobi At All???

    Quote Quote:
    Pain 2.0 were Edo Tensei.
    I meant regarding the need for body remains/DNA as source.
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    Re: Did Kabuto need Tobi At All???

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Core Rikki View Post
    I meant regarding the need for body remains/DNA as source.
    Kabuto summoned them himself before he taught Edo Tensei to Tobi. I doubt you can bind a soul to two artificial corpses at once.

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    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Did Kabuto need Tobi At All???

    there were a lot of guys who supported your theory. yet,without kabuto,bee and naruto wouldn't havee come out,and tobi would have fought with his rinnegan from the beginning. but of course,the enemies would have been weaker.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DementedKirby's Avatar
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    Re: Did Kabuto need Tobi At All???

    Kabuto wants to do things from the shadows. Also, Tobi knows something Kabuto doesn't and wants to (his comment when he saw the Hashirama flower).
    "Madara", the Troll! sig. by yours truly

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Eprst's Avatar
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    Re: Did Kabuto need Tobi At All???

    I think we underestimate Tobi so far, we havent seen his full abilities yet, well the thing with Gedo Mazo is one thing but once he gets very serious i think he can be quite dangerous, not to say that he has so many SHaringans and he can use Izanagi to ressurect himself, even fight with 4th hokage didnt show that Minato actually was close to kill him. he wounded him seriously, plus he hasnt used his rinnegan for jutsus yet, i think we will see more skillfull ninja than Nagato in this case, also I doubt Kabuto is able to capture Naruto and Killer bee by his ET zombies, killer bee showed that even he posseses sealing jutsus able to seal several opponents

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Suzaku's Avatar
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    Re: Did Kabuto need Tobi At All???

    Kabuto summoned the Jinchuuriki with his Edo Tensei. Tobi presumably captured them off-camera using genjutsu and the Gedo Statue to bind them to his will.

    Edit: Also, the only thing Kabuto stated he wanted out of their alliance was Sasuke, who at the time was hidden away somewhere in Tobi's lair.

    As Kabuto himself said, he's pretty lucky. The one thing he wanted out of this war ended up walking right to him.
    Last edited by Suzaku; May 11, 2012 at 11:43 PM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Eprst's Avatar
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    Re: Did Kabuto need Tobi At All???

    I wonder why couldnt he study Sharingan or the Uchiha Madara and try to absorb it from Edo Tensei, does he really need live Uchiha for this purpose? It looks that he need some blood to absorb those abilities, he could have taken some blood of Tobi, and steal some of the Sharingans from his lab

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Suzaku's Avatar
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    Re: Did Kabuto need Tobi At All???

    Kabuto said, "I am only interested in the pure truth behind ninjutsu. And I need Sasuke to pursue this. I need a young, live, sensitive Uchiha."

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