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Thread: What do you think of IN?

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    What do you think of IN?

    in the advanced form of zetsu i can understand that with zetsu you could hide your aura because you close the pores in your body but how is it possible to hide your aura when it`s out in the air may be i am overthinking it but i just cant swallow it in a sense why would a pro nen user like ubo drop gyo .i know how kurapica fooled him blah blah but still it doesnt make sense to drop gyo it leaves a bad taste in what you could call a fantastic fight

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    Re: what do you think of in

    I think taht the fact that you are neglecting is that using "gyo" prevent you to protect yourself with "ken" or even "ren".
    Basically you have to take the risk , a big risk, it depends on the thing you judge the more important, finding new datas, confirming your opponent abilities and tactics, or defend yourself with efficiency. I think taht we tend to overlook the jeopardy that goes with "gyo", using it with the eyes doesn't change the outcome, concentrating more aura on one part of the body expose the rest of the body.
    Concerning the "in", i don't know what to say, that's a principle.

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    Re: what do you think of in

    Quote Originally Posted by Mylesime View Post
    I think taht the fact that you are neglecting is that using "gyo" prevent you to protect yourself with "ken" or even "ren".
    Basically you have to take the risk , a big risk, it depends on the thing you judge the more important, finding new datas, confirming your opponent abilities and tactics, or defend yourself with efficiency. I think taht we tend to overlook the jeopardy that goes with "gyo", using it with the eyes doesn't change the outcome, concentrating more aura on one part of the body expose the rest of the body.
    Concerning the "in", i don't know what to say, that's a principle.
    yeah,yeah my main point isn't about gyo however you could use varying degrees of gyo,you still could use ken or ren with it
    however I brought it up to point my dislike of that part

    I don't like the In

    -zetsu is the principle,In is the advance technique and In just doesn't follow the same logic

    like ken is to ren or shu to ten

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    Re: what do you think of in

    Concerning "gyo", i don't know about "ten" but it definitely can't be used with "ken" or "ren" at the same time . You can't generate a balanced and maximum amount of aura apportioned equally on your whole body, while concentrating a majority of it on a specific part, that seems logic, like with these pictures
    http://www.mangareader.net/207-14063...hapter-54.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/207-14091...hapter-82.html
    Concerning "in" , I see that as something similar with what Pito did to not oppress , to not make Meruem uncomfortable. Something like, containing your aura in a defined area, blocking or even eliminating the emission of aura toward the opponent from whence the meaning of the fact that this is explained as zetsu advance technique.
    Last edited by Mylesime; May 12, 2012 at 08:19 AM.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Sea Hunter's Avatar
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    Re: what do you think of in

    Quote Originally Posted by hgfdsahjkl View Post
    in the advanced form of zetsu i can understand that with zetsu you could hide your aura because you close the pores in your body but how is it possible to hide your aura when it`s out in the air may be i am overthinking it but i just cant swallow it in a sense why would a pro nen user like ubo drop gyo .i know how kurapica fooled him blah blah but still it doesnt make sense to drop gyo it leaves a bad taste in what you could call a fantastic fight
    You hide your aura with In, but with Zetsu you keep it inside your body without allowing any of it out, both are very different techniques.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Tame's Avatar
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    Re: what do you think of in

    I agree that they're very different to each other, but In is, according to canon, the advanced form of Zetsu (though I can't be bothered to find the page where it says that, so feel free to disbelieve me. :P). However, I don't think that is borne out by the facts; you shut off your aura nodes to stop aura leaking out - that's Zetsu.

    However, In involves hiding other objects or nen. Let's take the example of Kurapika's chains; what exactly is involved it make them invisible? If In is an extension of Zetsu, then wouldn't that mean he has to close the aura nodes on the chains? I'm pretty sure the chains don't have aura nodes... If anyone has a better justification, though, I'd like to hear it; I may be misinterpreting the term "advanced form".

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member NoFreakingWay's Avatar
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    Re: what do you think of in

    Quote Originally Posted by Tame View Post
    I agree that they're very different to each other, but In is, according to canon, the advanced form of Zetsu (though I can't be bothered to find the page where it says that, so feel free to disbelieve me. :P). However, I don't think that is borne out by the facts; you shut off your aura nodes to stop aura leaking out - that's Zetsu.

    However, In involves hiding other objects or nen. Let's take the example of Kurapika's chains; what exactly is involved it make them invisible? If In is an extension of Zetsu, then wouldn't that mean he has to close the aura nodes on the chains? I'm pretty sure the chains don't have aura nodes... If anyone has a better justification, though, I'd like to hear it; I may be misinterpreting the term "advanced form".
    I hope this helps, but Machi used Zetsu on her thread to keep track of the vehicle Kurapika was in.

    So I guess it is pretty possible to 'wrap' things in a layer of In or Zetsu. With Zetsu you make the thing barely perceptible. With In you make the thing invisible and imperceptible. En can be used to detect things hidden with both In and Zetsu. Gyo can also be used to detect things hidden with In.

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    Re: what do you think of in

    Quote Originally Posted by NoFreakingWay View Post
    I hope this helps, but Machi used Zetsu on her thread to keep track of the vehicle Kurapika was in.

    So I guess it is pretty possible to 'wrap' things in a layer of In or Zetsu. With Zetsu you make the thing barely perceptible. With In you make the thing invisible and imperceptible. En can be used to detect things hidden with both In and Zetsu. Gyo can also be used to detect things hidden with In.
    I agree wholeheartedly.

    I think OP basically got confused. So far, the only connecting factor I can think of between Zetsu and In is the concept of invisibility or impercievability. It doesn't necessarily mean that in order to be  hidden or concealed, you have to close the nodes in order to do so. Closing the nodes is the actual physiologic change that one must allow to happen in orderto be invisible to other nen users.  Thats all there is. But it does not define the concept of Zetsu or In.

    Ren, Ten, Zetsu and Hatsu are the 4 nen training concepts.
    In the 2011 intro's (english subtitled). The 4 concepts of Nen are translated as:
    Ten - Shroud
    Ren - Enhance
    Zetsu- Null
    Hatsu - Act

    Again... Hatsu... ACT.
    As we all know this leads to all different kinds intricasies/applications/gibberish just to get the official concept of Hatsu (To act). For example, some people like Gon uses all Ten, Ren, and Null to get this effect. Some people like to change their aura into bubblegum or electricity or conjure chains. Some people like to call a ghost writer to write prophecies. Some people like to steal other peoples Nen. All of these fall within concept of Hatsu (Act).

    In the same extent. When one says Zetsu (Null/Conceal), it doesnt necessarily encapsulates everything with the concept of "Turn Nodes: ON and Turn Nodes: OFF." It just simply means as the translations suggest - to Null and Conceal. Being able to recover from fatigue and heal yourself faster is just the bonus. 

    Now "In" is the advanced application of Zetsu (null). It's the same concept but just an application. Just like how En is the application of both Ren and Ten. "In" is part of the many nen applications like Gyo, Shu, En, Ko, Ken etc...
    http://h-x-h.wikia.com/wiki/Nen

    And I do understand the confusion. Example of people that were shown to use "In" were Hisoka, Machi, Kurapika and Bomb devil. And the thing is, it wasn't properly explained in the manga nor data books how people achieve "In" and conceal their aura. We can only speculate. Seriously. It sucks. I know. The only thing we were given was node shutting and the use of En or Gyo to detect concealed aura.

    In isn't very well polished in my opinion.

    I think Togashi was shooting for these concepts as a whole rather than the technical or physiologic aspects of attaining it. The confusion is normal since we're not really given a lot of validation to begin with.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by HiggsBoson; August 03, 2012 at 06:22 AM.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: What do you think of IN?

    I have to say that in does not make much sense to me as a whole. Zetsu is basically stopping the flow of aura out of your body completely or almost completely. You use it to hide your presence by not having any aura around you, not even the measly amount normal people leak all the time. In many forms using zetsu is actually doing nothing at all in terms of nen. It is a state where there is no nen activity going on. In this regard, how do you apply this for in? kurapica used in to hide his chain from uvo however that does not seem coherent. Ok, his chain is materialized but that only makes things more confusing. If his chain was surrounded by nen then anything akin to zetsu would force nen inside the chain. Even if nen is hidden it doe snot explain why the chain would be invisible to uvo. Now, the situation is even worst for things made of actual nen. If something is nen then using in in the way I described would not help. You would basically be forcing nen into the nen based object however the nen based object would still be made of nen and not invisible. Anyways, in as an application of zetsu does not make sense. Supressing aura (zetsu) to hide your presence makes a lot of sense but an application of this seems implausible.

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    Re: What do you think of IN?

    I can totally see what you're saying.

    It's like zetsu node shunting is very different from having nen surround your body but make it INVISIBLE without closing the nodes, which is basically what IN is... aura that is invisible without node shunting/closing.

    Therefore, In being an application of Zetsu makes no freakin sense at all. Since other applications, in some way or form, is connected to main concepts.

    In should altogether be another concept itself.
    As i said though, the only thing relatively connecting IN and ZETSU together is NULL. But IN as advance application of Zetsu is juts... no... just no..

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    Re: What do you think of IN?

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I have to say that in does not make much sense to me as a whole. Zetsu is basically stopping the flow of aura out of your body completely or almost completely. You use it to hide your presence by not having any aura around you, not even the measly amount normal people leak all the time. In many forms using zetsu is actually doing nothing at all in terms of nen. It is a state where there is no nen activity going on. In this regard, how do you apply this for in? kurapica used in to hide his chain from uvo however that does not seem coherent. Ok, his chain is materialized but that only makes things more confusing. If his chain was surrounded by nen then anything akin to zetsu would force nen inside the chain. Even if nen is hidden it doe snot explain why the chain would be invisible to uvo. Now, the situation is even worst for things made of actual nen. If something is nen then using in in the way I described would not help. You would basically be forcing nen into the nen based object however the nen based object would still be made of nen and not invisible. Anyways, in as an application of zetsu does not make sense. Supressing aura (zetsu) to hide your presence makes a lot of sense but an application of this seems implausible.
    IN make's a Nen fight that much difficult for us to understand. But it makes sense. IN hides your projected aura making it invisible unless you focus a decent amount of Nen into your eyes...Gyo should be used in certain or simply any fight you get into time to time, just to be sure the Opponent isn't using IN trying to capture or surprise you with anything.

    Kurapica beat Uvo because he leaves his conjured chains on and People believe they are real and that he's a manipulator. With that assumption that doesn't leave him with anything to hide rlly... A Conjurer can take advantage of IN hiding items they created and being able to surprise their opponent gaining the advantage. Emitter's also have good use of using IN to hide their Aura or transmutter's like Hisoka can hide his Bungee Gum stretching out to you or it simply being attached to you. So IN isn't stupid it's smart, Gyo is what's stupid because we don't see many Ppl use it as often as they should be.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: What do you think of IN?

    Meh, can't believe that an experienced fighter like Uvo didn't use Gyo. Should've known something was fishy when Kurapica tanked a reinforced punch as a manipulator. Good rule of thumb in the universe of HxH is to use Gyo when something inexplicable happens. In fact, first thing you do in a fight is to activate Gyo. There are just too few rules for Nen and people come up with all sorts of strange abilities with strange conditions. I personally think the Nen system is too wide in HxH and runs the risk of making a lot of fights a crap shoot. Probably pure Enhancers have it worst since they have no special ability and they typically have to close to defeat the opposition

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    Re: What do you think of IN?

    Quote Originally Posted by mousiehamster View Post
    Meh, can't believe that an experienced fighter like Uvo didn't use Gyo. Should've known something was fishy when Kurapica tanked a reinforced punch as a manipulator. Good rule of thumb in the universe of HxH is to use Gyo when something inexplicable happens. In fact, first thing you do in a fight is to activate Gyo. There are just too few rules for Nen and people come up with all sorts of strange abilities with strange conditions. I personally think the Nen system is too wide in HxH and runs the risk of making a lot of fights a crap shoot. Probably pure Enhancers have it worst since they have no special ability and they typically have to close to defeat the opposition
    Yea I like the whole almost random toss up for a match but The Nen system is a bit too wide. Uvo Definitely should have used Gyo from the start..His defeat was plot induced, Togashi covers this up by having the Spiders mention he fights better when he's protecting somebody and fails to think everything through when on his own..Which unsettling because we seen how he was analyzing and tested Kurapicka's chain with the crushed can....Kurapicka is also tricky to keep his item materialized to confuse Ppl into thinking the chain is a real and wouldn't have any conditions around it.

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    MH Senpai MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Uriel's Avatar
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    Re: What do you think of IN?

    I think that Togashi didn't have wrapped up the whole Nen System until Greed Island. That's why there are some holes in power levels and how some experienced users ended making newbies mistakes.

    In this case, Uvo not using Gyo was utterly n00b.
    The Sky is pouring
    The wind is blowing
    The sea looks red,
    a surging sea of flames
    looks like the entrance to hell
    'Perfect', the captain said.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: What do you think of IN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uriel View Post
    I think that Togashi didn't have wrapped up the whole Nen System until Greed Island. That's why there are some holes in power levels and how some experienced users ended making newbies mistakes.

    In this case, Uvo not using Gyo was utterly n00b.
    Gyo existed at the time of the fight. We're not talking about techniques that didn't exist at the time of the fighting.

    I'm guessing originally In is supposed to be an integral part of the fight and then Togashi eventually realized that if you didn't use Gyo you would probably die the moment you fight anyone who isn't a Reinforcement user because literally every tech besidse Reinforcement-based tech can be hidden by In so we don't see In/Gyo anymore. Gyo is clearly assumed to be simply 'always on'.

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