Bleach 493 Discussion

[eefrit]

Yeah, I think Urahara will be the savior of Ichigo and the gang, because Kirge is alot stronger than anyone would have guessed. I'm a little peeved at Kubo for skipping a bit of the invasion though. I'm ready to see the Stern Ritter!

[mattiaildivino]

good chapter! it was very cool how kirge was absorbing even his enemies! and finally SS is about to make a mess!!!

[Quantized]

To build further on the theory made from this chapter revelations, if looking back on the Fullbring arc.

It seems one has to classify reatsu and a soul as two different things, albeit nothing seems to be without a soul or reatsu. Remember this a theory, so statements are theory based on what seems real, a paradigm if you like.

Reatsu: The sheer energy, drive and what keeps a soul alive. (Most souls only have little reatsu, but enough to keep their Soul alive).
Soul: The personality of matter or spirit particles, it has a memory of who it is. If it's a living creature, it's shaped after that creature, if it's a rock, it's shaped to be a rock. It seems if it's a creature, the soul is hard to shape differently when absorbed, however a stone or similar material is easy, making it obedient to shaping.

This could explain why Kirge looked normal at first, (Quincy like), but after absorbing Ayon's reatsu and Soul memory, it seems he could not maintain his form.

In the living world, we learned that all matter also has a soul, thereby likely also reatsu.
So a wild guess is, whether matter in the real world is concealed, just like reatsu are within humans and animals. In other words, the reason why Quincies can't use reatsu in the real world, they can't reach the concealed reatsu.

Shinigami/Hollow: Building up reatsu from within themselves.
Quincy: Absorbing reatsu from their surroundings.
Fullbringer: Control the Soul of matter/spirit particles, but limited it seems (so far).

In other words, with all above taken into consideration, Quincy can't control the soul of what they absorb, only the energy. However Fullbringers can control the soul of all things.

What possibly could be in store for Ichigo? Was the fullbring training he went through meant to prepare him to fight strong Quincies? I think so, it starts to look like that for me.

anyway just a theory, so please don't jump all over it, it may be wrong, it may be right, maybe partly right/wrong, have an open mind.

[sarutobi_sensei]

So, they are afraid of Ichigo's Bankai? Or just Bankai in general since they seem to want to destroy/negate it as soon as possible?

They already entered the barrier? Wow hax much?

Ayon is now dead, poor fella... not really, he was gross as hell. So one of them can shield everyone? Why not Ichigo as well? And why isn't he being affected?

[patz]

I get now Quincy must have use technique to absorb Sasakibe's bankai and use it against him.

I don't think Ayon is really dead. Once Orihime heal their arms, they'll be able to summon Ayon again.

Still, where is Urahara all these time?

I think Ukitake's technique will be useful to counter Quincy's absorb ability.

[Quantized]

So, they are afraid of Ichigo's Bankai? Or just Bankai in general since they seem to want to destroy/negate it as soon as possible?

They already entered the barrier? Wow hax much?

Ayon is now dead, poor fella... not really, he was gross as hell. So one of them can shield everyone? Why not Ichigo as well? And why isn't he being affected?

I guess it's not much the bankai itself, but the potential level they can reach. Seems that if they go bankai, they can compete for as long it lasts, depending on how strong the shinigami/Quincy difference is.
Also seemingly, bankai means better control of reatsu, so if you combine it with a strong Shinigami, possibly it's very hard to take off reatsu from a strong bankai.

It's like a battle between the shinigami controlling their own spirit particles better than the Quincy controlling theirs.

Maybe this is why they want to block the bankai, they probably don't care about the weak bankai's, but someone like Yama or the other senior captains in bankai could possible pose a threat, since they will have to fight fair and square in that case, rather than stealing reatsu. The old captains can be tricky to steal reatsu from in bankai mode, they're old, and very skilled at their own spirit particle manipulation. Thereby they likely can't absorb any of it if they go bankai.

But who knows, it could be anything at this rate

[mattiaildivino]

that page focused on kirge who had just transformed(absorbing allon) was epic! I'd like to see other transofrmations like that,they are just too cool! I've not undertood what ichigo did on him,though

[SaitoSpike]

BANKAI! lol....already...sigh i guess its ALWAYS goin to be Ichigo's go to thing

well i guess we know why the king felt Kirge or Quilgue could stall Ichigo

once again if there is no limit to how much reishi they can absorb it might even be a worse hack ability than Aizen.....

[shane1594]

To build further on the theory made from this chapter revelations, if looking back on the Fullbring arc.

It seems one has to classify reatsu and a soul as two different things, albeit nothing seems to be without a soul or reatsu. Remember this a theory, so statements are theory based on what seems real, a paradigm if you like.

Reatsu: The sheer energy, drive and what keeps a soul alive. (Most souls only have little reatsu, but enough to keep their Soul alive).
Soul: The personality of matter or spirit particles, it has a memory of who it is. If it's a living creature, it's shaped after that creature, if it's a rock, it's shaped to be a rock. It seems if it's a creature, the soul is hard to shape differently when absorbed, however a stone or similar material is easy, making it obedient to shaping.

This could explain why Kirge looked normal at first, (Quincy like), but after absorbing Ayon's reatsu and Soul memory, it seems he could not maintain his form.

In the living world, we learned that all matter also has a soul, thereby likely also reatsu.
So a wild guess is, whether matter in the real world is concealed, just like reatsu are within humans and animals. In other words, the reason why Quincies can't use reatsu in the real world, they can't reach the concealed reatsu.

Shinigami/Hollow: Building up reatsu from within themselves.
Quincy: Absorbing reatsu from their surroundings.
Fullbringer: Control the Soul of matter/spirit particles, but limited it seems (so far).

In other words, with all above taken into consideration, Quincy can't control the soul of what they absorb, only the energy. However Fullbringers can control the soul of all things.

What possibly could be in store for Ichigo? Was the fullbring training he went through meant to prepare him to fight strong Quincies? I think so, it starts to look like that for me.

anyway just a theory, so please don't jump all over it, it may be wrong, it may be right, maybe partly right/wrong, have an open mind.

1. Reiatsu is simply the application of Reiryouku for the use in battle.
2. Quincy don't absorb Reiatsu from their surroundings, they absorb Reishi
3. Fullbringers don't control spirit particles(Reishi), the Quincy's do.

Cezgeth's review aside, this was a great chapter, although I do kind of wish that they would go back to focusing on one fight at a time. For story-building purposes it's fine, but in action sequences it tends to lack in continuity.

[union98]

I hope Urahara is somewhere hiding in the back taking notes on everything that's happening and working on a way to counter it, otherwise, there's really no hope for anyway. I do feel kinda trolled in that, it still doesn't prove that Kirge is stronger than Ayon. He just ended up absorbing him. Kind of a hax ability if you think about it...unless there's a way to counter it. I would think Shinigami should be strong enough and skilled enough to control their own reiatsu that holds their bodies and their zanpakto together. I mean, how did the shinigami beat the quincy in the first place if they've always had this ability? It'll probably come down to them fighting the quincies in the world of the living or something just to keep them from absorbing everything...but who knows.

[patz]

how did the shinigami beat the quincy in the first place if they've always had this ability? It'll probably come down to them fighting the quincies in the world of the living or something just to keep them from absorbing everything...but who knows.

They explained they just develop this technique later. The original one used to be the one Ishida's grandpa taught him. Once you use it, you lose all power. This is a new version.

I think I can see why Ishida's grandpa didn't want to use this new version. He's kind of a noble man after all. You may end up destroy the world by absorbing everything. Trees, rocks, mountains, rivers, everything has reiatsu. If quincies absorb everything, we will end up have more problems.

[Asclepius]

ew ew ew
what an ugly beast

Wahhh Ugly Ayon died violently.

*grabs popcorn*
Action!!!!!

I think Ichigo x Kirge will always be a draw. Someone has to mess with this battle.

[Cyber34]

Nice chapter, but kinda dissapointing to see Ichigo being forced to go Bankai for someone not even apart of the Stern Ritter even if he did absorb Ayon's body and powers.

[Quantized]

1. Reiatsu is simply the application of Reiryouku for the use in battle.
2. Quincy don't absorb Reiatsu from their surroundings, they absorb Reishi
3. Fullbringers don't control spirit particles(Reishi), the Quincy's do.

Cezgeth's review aside, this was a great chapter, although I do kind of wish that they would go back to focusing on one fight at a time. For story-building purposes it's fine, but in action sequences it tends to lack in continuity.

What the... trying to pick a fight or something? I said it was a theory, but obviously you got a religious kind of thinking rather than being scientific
Should read up on theory / methods and Paradigms, you'll learn something.
Besides it isn't a review, it's a theory, get the difference please

Also: "The difference between spiritual pressure and spiritual energy is simple: Reiryoku is the amount of energy a being has stored within their body or soul, whereas Reiatsu is the pressure that a person’s Reiryoku exerts."
http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Reiatsu

Obviously I got the name part wrong, but that does not make what I said wrong, since I was talking about the entirety of spirit particles altogether.
You can't make it black and white, and your Wiki "knowledge" doesn't get you far, Kubo might have other ideas than the alternative sources of spirit worlds / cultures.
I based my theory Purely on manga facts, not some half ased wiki.
It hardly matters if they absorb only the surroundings or a whole body, fact is, they can absorb it all, you just saw the evidence in this very chapter. What does naming the different components even matter? Hardly any.

Also the heck, I never said Fullbringers control spirit particles but the SOUL of spirit particles, get it right

Maybe you should learn some manners, don't just be ignorant and label people, especially not in their face, it's quite rude you know.
When it comes down to it, the only thing that matters is peaceful discussions, not one sided arrogance.
If someone disagree with my theory, then sure, I got no problem with that, but leave the arrogance at home please

[flameorigin]

We're getting somewhere, albeit slowly. Another power-power grudge match on Ichigo side, but finally SS is invaded and would like to see the developments there. I'm not too crazy of powerups I'm stronger, no I'm stronger etc of bleach anymore :P

I miss the beginning where it was about what was going on than you could 1up each other.