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View Poll Results: Well, what do you think?

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41. You may not vote on this poll
  • It's fine as it is.

    13 31.71%
  • It would be better as a seinen.

    28 68.29%
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Thread: Would 'Naruto' be better as a seinen?

  1. #31
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Akabeth's Avatar
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    Re: Would 'Naruto' be better as a seinen?

    Quote Originally Posted by blade5468 View Post
    A brilliant example for this would be number 2. "Anchored down"? Friendship and companionship in the human experience is a pretty deep philosophical concept. Look at your sig, for instance. It's almost universally agreed on by great thinkers that the best aspect of life is sharing it with others.
    I don't remember exactly how I ended up with that expression but it's the best I could think of for brevity. I used friendship as a reverse umbrella term for attachments, though the word anchor implies sheer mass, thus inertia. I thought it's a decent fit for my purpose since my peeve -- specifically -- is that this idea prevents characters from developing... or advancing.

    Quote Quote:
    Because it's handled badly.
    Precisely, definitely. Maybe had the ship's crew planned out their anchoring better, things would've turned out differently. I started writing thinking that seinens (being aimed at older readers) would find room to fit more things into the protagonist's journey and the author/artist should have more leeway in general.

    Friendship has always been a huge part of the story and this was made adamant by Kakashi after the bell exercise hundreds of chapters ago. However, the distinction between the adult and his three rookies is that he's able to move on. What's worse is "friendship" doesn't just stall, it's proven rather destructive at times when self imposed and not mutual. Memorable cases included bouts between Sarutobi and Orochimaru (whole village paid dearly over this), Sasuke and Sakura (degradation of our main female protagonist), and of course between Sasuke and Naruto (tell me about it, lol).

    Spoiler show


    Quote Quote:
    For the record, I really don't think seinens are inherently more deep than shonens. In fact, I think a lot of the values in shonen (such as friendship, working hard, caring about what actually matters in life like your dreams) are a lot more applicable to real life and philosophically important than what seinen is categorized by. That is, if you're stereotyping shonen as friends+ambitions+dreams, then you should probably stereotype seinen as the-world-is-shit-and-everything-is-shit-and-dark-and-you-are-going-to-die-brutally-and-it-wont-matter.
    If there was this sort of stereotyping going on, it didn't influence me on either post. All there's to it is that the series has been going on for a while and from what I gathered seinens appeal more to me now.

    Spoiler show


    Quote Quote:
    Well, I might just be oversimplifying seinens, but I'd love it if you could redirect me to some genuinely deep ones.
    Plenty of novels for that or you could think up a story of your own.

    That's about all I could think of right now. Keep 'em coming folks!
    Last edited by Akabeth; August 29, 2012 at 04:50 PM.
    "Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile." Albert Einstein

  2. #32
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Brandnewkid's Avatar
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    Re: Would 'Naruto' be better as a seinen?

    No. Naruto is as childishly Shonen as it gets. Hunter X Hunter, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Series 1-6, and even Bleach is more mature than Naruto.

    But maturity doesn't necessarily equate to being seinen. Some series just end up in Seinen magazines due to editorial issues or sales.

  3. #33
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member DoctorApollo's Avatar
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    Re: Would 'Naruto' be better as a seinen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandnewkid View Post
    No. Naruto is as childishly Shonen as it gets. Hunter X Hunter, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Series 1-6, and even Bleach is more mature than Naruto.

    But maturity doesn't necessarily equate to being seinen. Some series just end up in Seinen magazines due to editorial issues or sales.
    I disagree. I don't remember even a single mature theme in Bleach in comparison to all the shit that goes down in Naruto. I understand that it's been childish lately, but I don't recall Bleach ever even attempting to discuss anything intellectually engaging.

    Have you read part one of Naruto...?

  4. #34
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Brandnewkid's Avatar
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    Re: Would 'Naruto' be better as a seinen?

    Quote Originally Posted by blade5468 View Post
    I disagree. I don't remember even a single mature theme in Bleach in comparison to all the shit that goes down in Naruto. I understand that it's been childish lately, but I don't recall Bleach ever even attempting to discuss anything intellectually engaging.

    Have you read part one of Naruto...?
    I meant in terms of Bleach's atmosphere. Naruto is a series about ninja wars that go on in the background, but there's a constant theme for hope and change for a bright future. Bleach takes place in a world full of demons in the afterlife and there are sodliers that try their best to keep the evils of Soul Society at bay. More often than not failing, as one evil always come right after another.

  5. #35
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Revvo's Avatar
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    Re: Would 'Naruto' be better as a seinen?

    Naruto would definitely be better as a seinen, since the the one thing which almost ruins this Manga is it's main Character. Naruto as a kid was alright, because he was a child and his childish ideals were fitting. Now years later the Character hasn't evolved one bit, which drags everything down, including the villains and what they stand for.
    In Seinen Manga there always is a great tradgedy, which forces the Characters to evolve, Naruto needed something like this many Chapters ago.
    But i guess Kishi just isn't good with characterdevelopment (Hinata's confession and Naruto's totaly ignorance towards her, Nagato's unconvincing change of heart....), only exceptions seem to be Kakashi and Obito, but you can't really count those two, since we only saw theire "undeveloped" younger versions in a few gaiden chapters.

    oh wait... there was one other character evolution!

    He : http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/293/5

    evolved into: http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/572/11

    ...
    Last edited by Revvo; August 30, 2012 at 11:23 AM.

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  7. #36
    MH Senpai MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Would 'Naruto' be better as a seinen?

    Quote Originally Posted by daschysta View Post
    Naruto isn't quite as shallow as you make it and FMA isn't nearly as deep as you make it, both are pretty straightforward in their morals and ideals, both can be pretty preachy, and both of them are pretty straightforward when it comes to characterization and the intentions of the characters.

    First, the homunculi are not deep, their actions are driven by the vice or sin that they anthropomorphicically represent. Greeds actions are dictated by his greed and desire not to share power (all of his reservations only come from his host). Envy is envious of humans, and thus wistful and somewhat bitter, gluttony is obvious, as is sloth, pride etc...

    Father isn't very complex either, he needed the souls and thus he set up a situation where he could obtain them, his goal? Godhood, a pretty common final villain trope.

    It does delve into some cool stuff in regard to the morality of Ed and Als quests for identity and body, and about the value of obtaining something if you have to lose your humanity to do it, in contrast to father, who resents his, but it isn't very far removed from shounenesque qualities itself.

    The Uchiha massacre is no more or less shallow than the Ishvalan conflict, granted, FMA does a better job confronting the racist ideations imparted by leadership to justify genocide better, thus exploring one aspect of it wheras Naruto explores whether an action was right even if it is seen as neccesary at the time by otherwise (somewhat) just and legitimate leadership. It turned out afterall, that it wasn't the Uchiha that summoned the Kyuubi collectively, and that the proposed coup was largely in response to the isolation and marginalization of the Uchiha in Konoha's society, which was unwarranted and motivated by fear and suspicion.

    It used, at least to do a good job of exploring the concept of mercenary life, the constant killing and assasinations are justified as just being part of the job, otherwise good people toss aside moral reservations so easily just because they are told to by authority, including children, who are trained killers.

    The things that ninja do on missions just because a piece of paper and their leadership tells them to isn't really that different than the upper levels of government being in on the Ishvalan genocide either, they did it because that was what they were ordered to do.

    Sure the leadership of Konoha didn't seem to "enjoy" it as much as some members of government did in FMA, but Konoha, here, is collectively the good guys, both manga treat their protagonists as somewhat good and pure people. Sadistic upper leadership is the enemy in FMA, it isn't really different than the unjust and terrible actions of the bloody mist, or the suna/kumo villages.

    If you want really deep and more morally ambiguous literature I suggest a different medium, Western Graphic Novels perhaps by Vertigo or Independents? Or of course real literature, certainly not teenage oriented manga, of which both Full Metal Alchemist and Naruto are.

    And there is nothing wrong with that, I enjoy both of them for what they are, entertaining reads with cool art, and "neat" concepts, but I don't, and you shouldn't really act like either of the two being compared are actually all that profound.
    Please note that I never claim that FMA's storyline was deep, though I would say the way it showed war and it's aftermath was pretty deep. Anyway, I said it had deeper character development then in Naruto. The homunculi and Father are much deeper then the majority of villains in Naruto. Yes they are mostly driven by their indivisual sins, but their unapologetic in regards to the evil that they do. Nor are they excused for what they do. They're the villains and protrayed as such, not merely people who had one bad day and merely need a hug.

    And the Uchiha massacre was shallow. It wasn't until recently that we even got to see how it began and even that is still the same old song. The worst part is that, as I mentioned before, the massacre only impacted Sasuke. The Ishvalan War had an impact on pretty much every main and secondary character, even those who weren't involved. The whole "killing is justiflied" angle has long been gone, especially with Naruto as the main character. Notice how the only people who die are either killed by someone evil or kill themselves. Even Sasuke, who's suppose to be the main villain, has a losely track recond in actually murdering anyone. And when we were finally given a chance to get back to the roots with the Fourth War, a chance to show how evil and terrible war is as key characters had stated, instead we got a war involving plants and zombies. Not only that, but not only hasn't any known character died, but the war has been going in the good guys favor since the start. It goes completely against what we had been told.

    The biggest problem in Naruto is the fact that all the evil actions being committed are being linked to just a few key people. The Uchiha massacre was dump on Danzo, allowing everyone else involved to be kept clean. Same with Akatsuki and those situations in Kiri. Dumped on Tobi and Madara. Everyone else is excused as being misguided. At least in FMA, the people helping Father were responsible for their own evil and knew full well what they were doing.

  8. #37
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shafagh's Avatar
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    Re: Would 'Naruto' be better as a seinen?

    well , thanks to Kishi :

    1- Naruto never facing to hard choice
    2- Everyone from his classmate and friend following him like sheep and he has no difficulty to struggle for them ...
    3- Naruto always ignore main question and answering them ( for example he has no answer for NAGATO , TOBI and etc ... )
    4- Naruto and Kakashi ignored UChiha massacre and Itachi death so easily and they even didn't bother themselves to ask a simple question to Elders ...
    5- Every ninja in Naruto world changing their heart and ideas in less than 5 minutes and accepting Naruto's agenda ....
    6- none of Naruto's friends geting wounded nor ding in the war .... that mean Naruto has no concern about facing the hard and sad situation ..
    7- Qb become a lovely pet for Naruto in minutes after living hundreds years of hatred !!

    .................

    Kishi making everything as easy as drinking water for his main character >>> that mean Nartuo character is more childish for most of shounen manga as well > So with Kishi style , he can't write an senining manga with his current main charater ...

    in other hand , we have both Sasuke and Itachi , they always have to make bloody and hard choice , and nothing going according of their favor in manga ... they have their mistake as well .... if you remove ITachi and Sasuke , then Naruto manga will become a bullshit that his main character will be successful in everything !!!
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  9. #38
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sanadan's Avatar
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    Re: Would 'Naruto' be better as a seinen?

    Quote Originally Posted by shafagh View Post
    well , thanks to Kishi :

    1- Naruto never facing to hard choice
    2- Everyone from his classmate and friend following him like sheep and he has no difficulty to struggle for them ...
    3- Naruto always ignore main question and answering them ( for example he has no answer for NAGATO , TOBI and etc ... )
    4- Naruto and Kakashi ignored UChiha massacre and Itachi death so easily and they even didn't bother themselves to ask a simple question to Elders ...
    5- Every ninja in Naruto world changing their heart and ideas in less than 5 minutes and accepting Naruto's agenda ....
    6- none of Naruto's friends geting wounded nor ding in the war .... that mean Naruto has no concern about facing the hard and sad situation ..
    7- Qb become a lovely pet for Naruto in minutes after living hundreds years of hatred !!

    .................

    Kishi making everything as easy as drinking water for his main character >>> that mean Nartuo character is more childish for most of shounen manga as well > So with Kishi style , he can't write an senining manga with his current main charater ...

    in other hand , we have both Sasuke and Itachi , they always have to make bloody and hard choice , and nothing going according of their favor in manga ... they have their mistake as well .... if you remove ITachi and Sasuke , then Naruto manga will become a bullshit that his main character will be successful in everything !!!
    Saying if they removed the most problematic situation that Naruto has would make the manga BS is kind of obvious. Remove the enemy forces in a war and the one army will have an easy path forward, though then it wouldn't be a war and this wouldn't be Naruto.
    Naruto has had an easy path but so has Sasuke if you want to compare reaching goals. In the end Naruto has the steepest slope to climb as he has to convert Sasuke to reach his goal, Sasuke simply has to continue what hes doing.

  10. #39
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shafagh's Avatar
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    Re: Would 'Naruto' be better as a seinen?

    Quote Quote:
    Naruto has had an easy path but so has Sasuke if you want to compare reaching goals. In the end Naruto has the steepest slope to climb as he has to convert Sasuke to reach his goal, Sasuke simply has to continue what hes doing.
    well , Sasuke has some hard and critical choose in his path :
    1- choose to killing Itachi when he was 7
    2- choosing between staying in Konoha or going to Oro
    3- choosing between killing Naruto or spare his life
    4- choosing between going against Konoha ( staying with Akatsuki ) or going to konoha or keep working alone
    5- choosing to go Kage summit or retreat and making new plan for killing Danzo
    6- choosing between stab Danzo and killing him ( by sacrificing karin ) or letting Danzo to go ...
    7- ...

    every one of his choice was critical and most of them was so hard , he make some right decision or some wrong decision .... and almost nothing going as his favor and always was some unknown truth ruining his life ....

    Sasuke had to choice between his clan honor or his village , between his brother's desire or his parent's revenge , between to live as a konoha hero ( according of Itachi's A plane ) or life as international criminal ... and he always face another hard situation ....

    in other hand , Naruto only say " I want become Hokage " and keep continue to oblivious path and thanks to kishi everything going according of his favor ( for example , if Nagato didn't get brainwashed in less than 10 minuets and continue to his fight , then Naruto would face an hell ... but Nagato changed his mind and above that , revived everyone !!! ) , ignoring something that ruined Sasuke's life and saying "I'm his friend " and etc ...

    I already said this in this forume : " I only reading this manga to see what is Sasuke's end " and I hope Kishi doesn't ruin Sasuke story to show Naruto more heroic !!!
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  12. #40
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member DoctorApollo's Avatar
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    Re: Would 'Naruto' be better as a seinen?

    One thing you guys made me realize is that Naruto's past is all about how he's a fucked up attention-seeking human that is incapable of maknig friends, yet in the actual manga everyone instantly loves the guy, each in their own way.

    Like, he never actually had to overcome that. As soon as the manga's plot started he became a friend magnet, yet prior to what we know as chapter 1 he seemed to be incapable of befriending anyone. Why is that?

    I guess that's Naruto (the character) failing to run into a lot of potential hardships, and that's immature and it sucks.

    But I maintain my point there would be no improvement if it's a seinen, and that it's not related to the genre, it's just badly done in general.

    ---------- Post added at 12:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by shafagh View Post
    well , Sasuke has some hard and critical choose in his path :
    1- choose to killing Itachi when he was 7
    2- choosing between staying in Konoha or going to Oro
    3- choosing between killing Naruto or spare his life
    4- choosing between going against Konoha ( staying with Akatsuki ) or going to konoha or keep working alone
    5- choosing to go Kage summit or retreat and making new plan for killing Danzo
    6- choosing between stab Danzo and killing him ( by sacrificing karin ) or letting Danzo to go ...
    7- ...
    To be fair, if you're going to put it that way, Naruto can beat out everything Sasuke did with just
    1. Choosing to never go back on his word

    which got him into a lot of shit and yet he still does it. There's also choosing to be nice to Pain and stuff like that. If you're going to name it by bullet points like that, Naruto has had his fair share of hardships. I don't know if you remember, but back when Naruto and Sasuke worked together, whenever shit got hard (Gaara, Orochimaru, Zabuza, etc.) Sasuke's immediate thought was "let's get the fuck out of here" and Naruto's thought was "I'll die here if I have to."
    I think that when you compare the two, Naruto is much better at dealing wtih hardships. Choosing to not run away from Orochimaru is much more conflicting than a lot of what Sasuke did, in my opinion.

    The Uchiha massacre is the only thing Sasuke really has going for him in terms of hardships, everything else is self inflicted. Naruto gets shit thrown at him every day and he survives it.

  13. #41
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shafagh's Avatar
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    Re: Would 'Naruto' be better as a seinen?

    Quote Originally Posted by blade5468 View Post
    One thing you guys made me realize is that Naruto's past is all about how he's a fucked up attention-seeking human that is incapable of maknig friends, yet in the actual manga everyone instantly loves the guy, each in their own way.

    Like, he never actually had to overcome that. As soon as the manga's plot started he became a friend magnet, yet prior to what we know as chapter 1 he seemed to be incapable of befriending anyone. Why is that?

    I guess that's Naruto (the character) failing to run into a lot of potential hardships, and that's immature and it sucks.

    But I maintain my point there would be no improvement if it's a seinen, and that it's not related to the genre, it's just badly done in general.

    ---------- Post added at 12:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 PM ----------



    To be fair, if you're going to put it that way, Naruto can beat out everything Sasuke did with just
    1. Choosing to never go back on his word

    which got him into a lot of shit and yet he still does it. There's also choosing to be nice to Pain and stuff like that. If you're going to name it by bullet points like that, Naruto has had his fair share of hardships. I don't know if you remember, but back when Naruto and Sasuke worked together, whenever shit got hard (Gaara, Orochimaru, Zabuza, etc.) Sasuke's immediate thought was "let's get the fuck out of here" and Naruto's thought was "I'll die here if I have to."
    I think that when you compare the two, Naruto is much better at dealing wtih hardships. Choosing to not run away from Orochimaru is much more conflicting than a lot of what Sasuke did, in my opinion.

    The Uchiha massacre is the only thing Sasuke really has going for him in terms of hardships, everything else is self inflicted. Naruto gets shit thrown at him every day and he survives it.
    a childish choose that going well thanks to writer advantages for main character ... ... for example , if Nagato refuse to change his mind and use all 6 path with his body and capture him , then the story would end ....

    and are you kidding with me !?

    I'm talking that in this story , the main character really didn't force to make any critical decision , so at least this main character isn't worthy enough for any seinin manga ( well , as third rate and comic character he will be useful to some low rank seinin ... )

    choosing killing your brother who love it more than anyone , choosing between become an hero or become an international criminal , r choosing between clan/family or village/country is not like choosing between continue your dream when every one praising you and you destined to be Hokage ....

    Naruto only continue his destiny , and in other hand , sasuke should overcome it or he will end up like his clan ....

    destiny already make every thing well for Naruto , just as him want , so Naruto only should continue a certain path , but for Sasuke , this is completely different, he had no one who foresaw his destiny , so he should choose it by himself ....

    Sasuke have the truth , if he saying the truth , his country looking him as the last remaining member of traitors clan , if he ignore it , that mean he ignore everything he live for it till now , in other hand , if Naruto saying he is son of 4th hokage , every one will praise him ....

    Sasuke lost all of his clan and his brother and if he say nothing , other seeing his brother as a traitor and if say it , they will consider his parent as traitor ; a lose - lose game fore him .... and he see who ordered his clan to death are worst than most of ninjas in world .....
    Last edited by shafagh; August 31, 2012 at 12:49 PM.
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  14. #42
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
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    Re: Would 'Naruto' be better as a seinen?

    Quote Originally Posted by shafagh View Post
    a childish choose that going well thanks to writer advantages for main character ... ... for example , if Nagato refuse to change his mind and use all 6 path with his body and capture him , then the story would end ....

    and are you kidding with me !?
    Same thing as if Oro, instead of going after Sasuke's body despite Sasuke being conscious, would've taken him out and took over his body with Sasuke being unconscious.
    Or if Itachi didn't freed him from Oro's control and giving him MS and EMS at the same time and instead took his eyes for himself.
    Or if Tobi didn't saved Sasuke's butt time and time again in the summit.
    Or if the Uchiha bros weren't conveniently protected by plot against Kabuto

    Hell every single important character has plot armour, example, what if Yondaime here went for the head and not for the gut?
    Dead Tobi -> no antagonist in this manga.
    To single out Naruto, when the guy faced way more failures in this manga than many other main characters, shows pretty much how biased you are.
    Just to point out, your Sasuke defeated Naruto.
    Thanks to Kishi

    Quote Quote:
    I'm talking that in this story , the main character really didn't force to make any critical decision , so at least this main character isn't worthy enough to any seinin manga ( well , as third rate and comic character he will be usefull to some low rank seinin ... )

    choosing killing your brother , choosing between become an hero or become an international criminal who is hunt down by everyone ( if they dare to this !! ) , or choosing between clan/family or village/country is not like choosing between continue your dream when every one praising you and you destined to be Hokage ....

    Naruto only continue his destiny , and in other hand , sasuke should overcome it or he will end up like his clan ....

    destiny already make every thing good for Naruto , just as him want , so Naruto only should continue a certain path , but for Sasuke , this is completely different, he had no one who foresaw his destiny , so he should choose it by himself ....
    Wasn't forced to make any critical decision?
    Did you miss part 1, where Naruto said he could've easily gone the same path Gaara went?
    Or when he didn't want to kill Sasuke and went for his forehead protector instead than his gut?
    Part 2, when Sasuke killed Itachi and escaped from him again?
    Or when Jiraiya died?
    Or when Konoha was destroyed, Hinata was almost killed and he was face to face with the murdered who did it all?

    I'm not a big fan of Naruto as a character, but to say that he had it easy is not right

    Quote Quote:
    Sasuke have the truth , if he saying the truth , his country looking him as the last remaining member of traitor , if he ignore it , that mean he ignore everything he live for it till now , in other hand , if Naruto saying he is son of 4th hokage , every one will praise him ....

    Sasuke lost all of his clan and his brother and if he say nothing , other seeing his brother as a traitor and if say it , they will consider his parent as traitor ; a lose - lose game fore him .... and he see who ordered his clan to death are worth than most of ninja in world .....
    His family, his clan were traitors, don't kid yourself.
    Itachi said so himself how much Uchiha disgusted him.

    Also don't make it look like Sasuke is a martyr lol, the guy forged his own path towards revenge and hatred, he chose every single action he did himself.
    He was being the puppet of Itachi first, then Tobi, yet it was still him, doing thing of his own free will.
    And that is what defines Sasuke as a great character imho:
    he has the same determination as Naruto, but unlike Naruto he would do everything to accomplish it. If you ask me, he is way more human than what Naruto is now.
    Still as a seinen we know Naruto would be way better as well, part 1 Naruto was pretty badass and had nothing of this "child of propecy" thingy going on, reread the Wave arc or the Chunin Exams arc

  15. #43
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member DoctorApollo's Avatar
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    Re: Would 'Naruto' be better as a seinen?

    Quote Originally Posted by shafagh View Post
    a childish choose that going well thanks to writer advantages for main character ... ... for example , if Nagato refuse to change his mind and use all 6 path with his body and capture him , then the story would end ....

    and are you kidding with me !?

    I'm talking that in this story , the main character really didn't force to make any critical decision , so at least this main character isn't worthy enough for any seinin manga ( well , as third rate and comic character he will be useful to some low rank seinin ... )

    choosing killing your brother who love it more than anyone , choosing between become an hero or become an international criminal , r choosing between clan/family or village/country is not like choosing between continue your dream when every one praising you and you destined to be Hokage ....

    Naruto only continue his destiny , and in other hand , sasuke should overcome it or he will end up like his clan ....

    destiny already make every thing well for Naruto , just as him want , so Naruto only should continue a certain path , but for Sasuke , this is completely different, he had no one who foresaw his destiny , so he should choose it by himself ....

    Sasuke have the truth , if he saying the truth , his country looking him as the last remaining member of traitors clan , if he ignore it , that mean he ignore everything he live for it till now , in other hand , if Naruto saying he is son of 4th hokage , every one will praise him ....

    Sasuke lost all of his clan and his brother and if he say nothing , other seeing his brother as a traitor and if say it , they will consider his parent as traitor ; a lose - lose game fore him .... and he see who ordered his clan to death are worst than most of ninjas in world .....
    Uchiha_Blood said most of what I had to say in terms of Sasuke vs Naruto, but what I do want to say myself is that I really don't see your point about Sasuke's worthiness as a main character. In fact, you're just outlining how terribly he did everything. Being struck with hardship and letting it destroy you isn't heroic, it's heroic to keep living on anyway. Sasuke doesn't even know the meaning of continuing to live on. Every single thing that happens to him becomes his new obsession for something totally insane and unjustified. He wants to murder countless innocent people because their government were dicks to his brother. Is that any better than a terrorist?

    Continuing to keep your promise and fight for your values despite everything that happens is not childish. It's one of the most admirable qualities people can have, and Sasuke doesn't have it.

    Itachi, on the other hand... Itachi would make a brilliant conflicted protagonist. Because he's the hero that the leaf village deserved, but not the one it needs right now. So he'll be an S rank criminal. And he'll be hated. And he'll be in Akatsuki. Why? Because he can take it. He's a silent guardian. A dark knight.

    But Sasuke? Sasuke's just a little bitch. He can't take it, he lets it take over him.
    Last edited by DoctorApollo; August 31, 2012 at 09:18 PM.

  16. #44
    MH Senpai MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Would 'Naruto' be better as a seinen?

    Quote Originally Posted by blade5468 View Post
    Like, he never actually had to overcome that. As soon as the manga's plot started he became a friend magnet, yet prior to what we know as chapter 1 he seemed to be incapable of befriending anyone. Why is that?
    Naruto had no trouble making friends. We saw in several flashbacks him hanging out and playing with Kiba, Shikamaru, and Chouji.

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    Re: Would 'Naruto' be better as a seinen?

    Quote Originally Posted by blade5468 View Post
    One thing you guys made me realize is that Naruto's past is all about how he's a fucked up attention-seeking human that is incapable of maknig friends, yet in the actual manga everyone instantly loves the guy, each in their own way.

    Like, he never actually had to overcome that. As soon as the manga's plot started he became a friend magnet, yet prior to what we know as chapter 1 he seemed to be incapable of befriending anyone. Why is that?
    It wasn't that he was incapable of making friends, it's just that he never had a chance to. Until he became a genin, there was no opportunity for him to make friends or earn respect, which is the main reason he was able to make friends. No one saw him in action.

    Hell, even when he was put in a team, he didn't strike up friendship immediately. It took Naruto growing balls against Zabuza to get his headband back for Sakura and Sasuke to even think better of him, and then he gained more respect by coming up with a plan to free Kakashi. Even during the chuunin exams, he didn't get respect until he finally beat Kiba.

    It took fights for Naruto to gain respect and make friends. People then started thinking better of him and gave him a chance once they saw he wasn't some stupid attention whore.

    Though, this is a typical shounen theme, I guess.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sanadan View Post
    Naruto has had an easy path but so has Sasuke if you want to compare reaching goals. In the end Naruto has the steepest slope to climb as he has to convert Sasuke to reach his goal, Sasuke simply has to continue what hes doing.
    No, Sasuke has not had an easy path nor will he have an easy path. Sasuke has been fighting against enemies that won't hesitate in killing him, except for Itachi. Naruto has been fighting against enemies that were ordered to not kill him and take him in alive. The only one who's tried to kill him was Orochimaru.

    Neither of those have an easy path, but Naruto's path is a bit easier due to the war: to bring permanent peace and understanding and to become a hokage. Sasuke wants or wanted revenge on Konoha, which will be hard as he'll have to fight tons of shinobi with at most, four people.
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