The Woods Are Lovely, Dark and Deep

[goldb]

Oh I see. Are you going to watch The Hobbit then?

I'm good. Yourself?

How was work?

Yep, Think it's coming out around my bday so either I'll watch it on the day it premieres or save it for my birthday.

I'm alright, lazed for most part of the day and gonna enjoy my day off tomorrow.

Work was good today, was at KPMG(auditing firm) and the hospitality manager there was actually at the Olympics attending a match and saw me but I was just going for my lunch; so we spoke about the London 2012 for a while and tasted the foods that came out of the kitchen for the partners lunches and meetings. Seriously good stuff

Robben was not "up there" with Ronaldo and Messi in 09. To think so its to have heavily biased spectacles on. That sounds like the same thing that use to be said by deluded Inter fans about Sneijder after their CL win.

Well all that talk is pointless now as you can clearly see the difference in level between Messi, Ronaldo and all other pretenders to be compared with them. They're just a different class of players. But I rate Sneijder more than Robben, JUST because I don't like selfish players.

[Mr. Prince]

Robben was not "up there" with Ronaldo and Messi in 09. To think so its to have heavily biased spectacles on. That sounds like the same thing that use to be said by deluded Inter fans about Sneijder after their CL win.

Well, I'm not sure how closely you have been following Robben that season, especially when considering how unpopular the Bundesliga has been back then (and still comparably is nowadays) but he really had his moments of magic that year. He single-handedly devoured teams in the league, the way he decided the Cup final for our side has been nothing short but epic and his performance in the Champions League has also been not too shabby either. The dudes from Manchester are probably still having nightmares about his legendary goal.

So, yeah... feel free to disagree but defaming/bad-mouthing someone's opinion without even trying to give any reason makes you look kinda douchey.

I'm not even saying he was actually matching their level but he certainly was to be named one of the Top 3 Wingers, together with them.

Nowadays it's a whole different story though. Messi and Ronaldo clearly have evolved even further in the last three years. No one comes even close to those two monsters...

---------- Post added at 02:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:21 AM ----------

They're just a different class of players. But I rate Sneijder more than Robben, JUST because I don't like selfish players.

You should watch some of our games this season!
You won't even recognize Robben anymore. He's become more and more of a team player in the last few months. (Mostly due to heavy bashing that's been going on in the German media... was some real ugly stuff.)

[Imperium]

Well, I'm not sure how closely you have been following Robben that season, especially when considering how unpopular the Bundesliga has been back then (and still comparably is nowadays) but he really had his moments of magic that year. He single-handedly devoured teams in the league, the way he decided the Cup final for our side has been nothing short but epic and his performance in the Champions League has also been not too shabby either. The dudes from Manchester are probably still having nightmares about his legendary goal.

So, yeah... feel free to disagree but defaming/bad-mouthing someone's opinion without even trying to give any reason makes you look kinda douchey.

I'm not even saying he was actually matching their level but he certainly was to be named one of the Top 3 Wingers, together with them.

Nowadays it's a whole different story though. Messi and Ronaldo clearly have evolved even further in the last three years. No one comes even close to those two monsters...

Haha I didnt meant to sound like a dick, I apologise if you were offended. I write a bit blunt sometimes. My knowledge of the bundesliga is not the same as a native and the small amount of games I watched in 09/10 were only Wolfsburg that season (I liked them from the previous season, but that season was depressing), but my point is not about how well he played in the Bundesliga but that even in 2009 Messi and Ronaldo were playing at a level far beyond any of their contemporary peers.

Ronaldo having moved to Madrid, falling injured for parts of the season, under a team disunited under Pellegrini put a ratio of almost a goal a game, and created or scored more goals than appearances. While Messi had his best season so far in his career and put up ridiculous numbers, it was a ballon d'or year for him. While Robben was amazing in the Champions league and the Bundesliga is without doubt, these two were consistent in their excellence in what was arguably (arguable then, undoubtedly now) the strongest league in the world.

By saying is he was "up there with them" you are implying he was at or near their play. Which is what I disagreed upon, it's not ingenuous to have him in a top 3 best wingers when the gap between 2 and 3 is so wide. It is not a slight against the Bundesliga but Robben cannot be help up to their standard while Ronaldo/Messi circa 09 played in the laliga and he played in the relatively weaker Bundesliga and still didnt have the same tangible affect they had. This shouldnt be taken as a slight against Bayern either, in 09/10 they were a joy to watch, Schweinsteiger's transformation under Gaal and Muller's emergence were some of the highlights of the season for me.

As an aside, I still vividly remember the claims being bandied around Europe of Robben after the United CL game, the same claims that came back to the fore later in the season after Inters CL win with Sneijder. In hindsight its easy to see how short sighted those claims are and how similar it is to the current wave of Iniesta praise post Euro's. There seems to be a insatiable need to bring about a player going through a run of good form and having him as a 3rd wheel to the Messi-Ronaldo hegemony.

---------- Post added at 02:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:34 AM ----------

Well all that talk is pointless now as you can clearly see the difference in level between Messi, Ronaldo and all other pretenders to be compared with them. They're just a different class of players. But I rate Sneijder more than Robben, JUST because I don't like selfish players.

The difference in class was apparent then as well.

[yukihime03]

I get that, though it's a shame.

Find a way, I'm sure there are streams somewhere...

Streaming even take more time! Waiting for the video buffering is troublesome...

[Mr. Prince]

I forgot Nedved! Man....Juventus back in the day with Thuram, Davids, Buffon; that was such a good team.

Yeah, it's a real shame Italian football is as dirty as it was and still is today (I mean, with all the betting scandals and whatnot)... back around '00 Juventus was legendary. Let's not forget Zidane who emerged from that team.

But Juve sure is to be watched this year! They have created yet another great team and their playing is fun to watch.

You're welcome, I hope you're gonna get more nominations and get a campaign going

That we will see. I'm still not sure how the whole campaigning would even work.
Last year's competition does not prove to be illuminating either...

Haha I didnt meant to sound like a dick, I apologise if you were offended. I write a bit blunt sometimes. My knowledge of the bundesliga is not the same as a native and the small amount of games I watched in 09/10 were only Wolfsburg that season (I liked them from the previous season, but that season was depressing), but my point is not about how well he played in the Bundesliga but that even in 2009 Messi and Ronaldo were playing at a level far beyond any of their contemporary peers.

Ronaldo having moved to Madrid, falling injured for parts of the season, under a team disunited under Pellegrini put a ratio of almost a goal a game, and created or scored more goals than appearances. While Messi had his best season so far in his career and put up ridiculous numbers, it was a ballon d'or year for him. While Robben was amazing in the Champions league and the Bundesliga is without doubt, these two were consistent in their excellence in what was arguably (arguable then, undoubtedly now) the strongest league in the world.

As an aside, I still vividly remember the claims being bandied around Europe of Robben after the United CL game, the same claims that came back to the fore later in the season after Inters CL win with Sneijder. In hindsight its easy to see how short sighted those claims are and how similar it is to the current wave of Iniesta praise post Euro's. There seems to be a insatiable need to bring about a player going through a run of good form and having him as a 3rd wheel to the Messi-Ronaldo hegemony.

Nah, no need to apologize there. I only would have felt offended if you were just shrugging things off by boldly stating "Anybody who thinks that is derpilicious" but now it's cool. - Still don't fully agree with you in some points though, haha.

You're certainly right that Messi was the measure of all things back then. He was, is and will always be remembered as the golden boy of this generation. That particular year no one came even close, not even the Portuguese. (IMO)
So when you're saying it's not legit to put players in a group when there seems to be too big a gap in terms of their overall performance, that would certainly also apply to Ronaldo that particular season.
Another factor one might consider is the individual performance during World Cup 2010. Robben, in contrast to Messi and especially Ronaldo, played a pretty decent tournament. (So one could also argue the other two wingers only work in their home clubs? But I wouldn't go that far since I don't really care for National Teams...)

What irritates me the most though is that you see La Liga to be that strong. I mean, especially coming from an Englishman! ² I'm surprised... For me, EPL is still the strongest and most attractive league by far! Because Primera División is really just about Barca VS. Real in the end. The other teams, although arguably some of which have international [B] class (e.g. Valencia, Atlético Madrid, etc.), are just fodder. And the gap between the Catalans and the Castilians and the rest of the league is getting bigger by the day. From an economic point speaking, it is one of the most questionable leagues and if things don't change some time soon the Spanish league is doomed. The TV market pool with its individual market rights has killed the league...
So even when you say La Liga is undoubtedly the strongest league in the world I beg to disagree here. It is undoubtedly home of the best club from the past decade and currently still best team in the world (Barcelona) as well as the most successful team in the history of footbal with the biggest revenue by far (Madrid). Yet, two teams don't make up for a league of 20 clubs. What EPL and Bundesliga have in favor is their great balance and I think the overall average level of the clubs is a tad higher. (But that's just my individual reception, of course.)

As for the aside: I'm not a huge fan of comparing the individual value of players from different positions. It's really apples and oranges for me. Every position has its own requirements and challenges... and the great thing about football is that it's a team sport where you really need not just apples or just oranges but a greatly composed fruit salad if you want to be successful!


I guess we're both taking quite different stands here and it may be close to impossible to reach full consensus but let's not sweat it. I for one really appreciated that you decided to clarify things and outlined how you see the situation! So thank you for that. : )


//and sorry to goldb for turning his thread into a sports bar... so much jock talk.

[riki]

How's your day?

[goldb]

How's your day?

It was nice, went out for lunch with a friend then ended up in a Starbucks with 2 others for hours playing a logo quiz game.

How was yours?

[riki]

How did you do? Any progress on Ch. 9?

It was good. Work was fine as usual. Oh, I got started on Ch. 10 now.

[goldb]

I dunno, one minute I was playing it on my phone whilst waiting for my drink to be made, next were all huddled around trying to remember the logos; fun times

NOT A SINGLE PAGE WAS READ TODAY!!!

I had some trouble sleeping last night, so didn't get to bed until 5am; so by the time I woke up, I had to get ready for lunch.

[riki]

Poor baby

[goldb]

Poor baby

[sakura-aneki]

bobby you won most friendly member last year now you're gonna winn most friendly mod <3 <3

I shall congratulate you now in case I forget when the official results come in :P

[goldb]

bobby you won most friendly member last year now you're gonna win most friendly mod <3 <3

I shall congratulate you now in case I forget when the official results come in :P

Thanks for your support, we'll see how it goes. I'll be rooting for you for most beautiful lips!

[sakura-aneki]

Nah I won't win xDDD Lala and tata are at the top XDDDD
and I doubt I'll win anything XDD not that popular or useful anyway xD

[Farfalla]

Huh? XD LOL no way.
Last year I got a lot of nominations for friendly, this year I got none. I lost people's sympathy and without it you can't go too far.