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This thread was created to criticize Madhouse's adaptation of HxH. I am actually a fan of the 2011 anime version of HxH so this is most certainly NOT a hate thread. I do NOT want to see single line posts of "Madhouse sucks" or the like. If you have problems with the adaptation as I do then please post your thoughts of what you don't like something. Why you don't like it. What Madhouse can do in the future to avoid such problems. So and so forth.
No criticism is too 'trivial' here. Granted please refrain from trolling and saying stuff like
"PHINX ISN'T BLONDE"
and then storm out. Please at least explain WHY Phinx not being blonde matters.
While I will mainly be criticizing Madhouse based off of how well they adapt the manga
if you are a 1999 fan you are welcome to criticize here too. However I ask that you
remember that Madhouse's HxH is not meant to be the 1999 version. So if you
are criticizing Madhouse for not having the elevator lady then you're just being unfair.
However if you want to criticize music and you think the 1999 was better then explain
to us why the 2011 music is unfavorable to you and fails in comparison to the 1999
music. However do remember that not everyone is going to agree with you.
Last but not least please be respectful.
---------- Post added at 05:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:45 AM ----------
My first criticism is Madhouse's treatment of Yorknew. I find that it gives too much focus to Kurapika and the Troupe well not enough attention to Leorio, Gon, and Killua. While it's not sluggish, the Kurapika stuff is a slow and steady pace. Meanwhile Gon, Leorio and Killua seem rather rushed to the point entire scenes are missing.
I realize this is definitely not the first time Madhouse has omitted scenes and not even the most major. However this to me has gotten to be the straw that broke the camel's back. I do not feel it is fair anymore to call Madhouse's Hunter x Hunter the more "faithful" series when it's making a habit of omitting scenes and what not.
Well, first off omitting scenes didn't start with Yorknew. It started from the very first episode with Kite's flashback as well as the presence of Kon. For Kite, the said they'll delay his flashback for another time. And at first, I didn't find it that bad concidering it's a flashback and it can be placed in any other time and it's not the first time it happens. One Piece didn't start with Luffys childhood and they aired few episodes later. But what bothered me is Madhouse acting like they try to erase every bit of information about Kite to the point of omitting Ging's Hunter license! That in my opinion was inexcusable! How do you make Gon's journey to find his dad by omitting an important lead about him?!
The other change I didn't like was the sushi exam. Not just because we didn't get to know Menchi's style of judging as it was meant to be, but it was also Hanzo's first spotlight! That was the first time where he stood out as a unique character among the cast and to get to know him and they blew it away by mixing the two exams together.
The next one is the gate opening. This one I'm conflicted about. For one I liked the teamwork aspect and how the three were in this together, but again it was for the price of "Leoreo doing something awesome".
And then Heavens Arena arc came and it was almost flawless. In fact, some bits were better than the manga like Zushi's water deviation progress which was something I was hoping to see since we saw Gon and Killua's progress and felt Zushi was left out of this.
And then Yorknew arc came along and the streak of omitted scenes has begun: The competition between Gon and Killua. That was something I was looking for to see how those two can work their way in a field they are not familiar with and the different approaches they take. And then another one of Leoreo's shining moments. Sure it wasn't that much, but c'mon, it's Leoreo - The guy who tries so hard but always ends up in the short end of the stick. Let us see him does things right for once!
This is what I said as one of the two matters I wanted to discuss about episode 42:
I also said someplace else that this might turn into a snow ball that'll get worse as time goes on, and as of episode 46, yeah... now I really need to get concerned because they still didn't give Leoreo the justice he deserves!Quote:
Well, so far I'm really sad because of:
-No sushi exam =O I think it should be possible to fit everything easily, while they didn't. And Hanzo lost his chance to shine =C
-Bad censoring of heart's scene. I think it's the only censoring issue that really bothered me. Not the part with Killua returning the heart to Jonness, but rather that it was wrapped in prisoner's cloth. It seemed really off imo.
-Episode 23. It is imo the worst episode so far (apart from recaps). Not only the infamous Gate scene, but also the training was so long that it shortened Canary's scene and it seemed rushed.
-No Kaito so far. Actually, I think it would leave a bigger impact if they included the fb in the Whale Island arc as well as farewell with forest animals. Now it is gonna feel like Kaito is deus ex machina. And yeah, Ging's license!
-Music direction is sometimess off.
-Almost forgot the competition between Gon&Killua! How could they exclude that? =O
Some minor issues include:
-The lack of the sequence lately. They definitely should include narration about the Auction from manga.
-Huncyclopedia becomes less informative and more stupid =C
-Intermedia choise for season 1 was sometimes really strange.
-A little filler with Killua going to buy JS by himself which I somewhy kept in mind. Gon, y u no go with him!?
-The flashbackseption in ep 39 was bad. They should feel bad.
-Omission of Leorio's arm-wrestling moment.
-I think it would be better to divide the episodes in 12-packs rather than 24-packs, and change OP/ED accordingly. Then it could be a rather cheerful theme for the first part of Hunter Exam, then a bit darker one for Killua arc, then cheerful again with more of Heavens' Arena fighters, then really dark op/eds twice in a row, etc. Well, that's not so much of a complaint...
But still, all in all the remake is really great. Heavens' Arena arc definitely was practically flawless, and I even loved it better than manga. Now I still think that YS has the same potential as manga wasn't flawless itself, but it already has quite a few mistakes. Let's see what the final result will be...
Last edited by ZonikStrike; September 12, 2012 at 07:47 AM.
Oh I completely agree that this has been going on since episode 1. It's just then with Kite's absence it felt like "OK this is different. But Madhouse is doing this for a reason." I admit that then the absence of the Sushi Exam didn't have as strong an impact on me mostly due to me not thinking it was the greatest scene in the first place (I don't hate it. I just don't love it.) But now I think I am rather upset about it because now I more see what's going on. I think it was mainly the
excitement of seeing what was next that allowed me to let such things slide back then.
I do not get why either Madhouse has basically erased Kite. It makes zero sense to me. I've tried before to try and think of ways that Madhouse
could "make up for it" and one was the idea of a Kite flashback arc. However I fear that we'll instead get a reduced Kite flashback that's
only betterment than the 99 version is animation and what not. What I would have liked to have seen if we couldn't just the flashback
in the beginning is to see little hints here and there of Kite and of Ging. Even if we have until the Chimera Ant arc there would at least
be the foreshadowing. I see no reason for Madhouse to need to keep Kite a secret. I mean...He's not Gyro for goodness sake...I hope. XD
The gate was annoying. But for what it is it's actually kind of well done in a way. Compare it to the omitted arm wrestling scene
which I found in of itself to be rather sloppy. Still I MUCH rather have the scene as Togashi had drawn it in the first place.
Heavens Arena was excellent. The only thing I remember having much complaint about were some scenes weren't as awesomely
animated as I hope they would be. But I realize that as it has been said before not everything can be Studio Ghlibi quality.
That said, that's not going to stop me from wanting it. I mean if you could watch any movie in HD over standard definition
the choice for most people should be clear---240p all the way! Just kidding.
With Yorknew I was actually hoping that Madhouse would give more justice to Gon, Killua and Leorio...and yes even Kurapika
then the 99 had. Kurapika I felt was portrayed wrong in the 99 and I MUCH prefer his portrayal here. It's not perfect but
it's better and I definitely look forward to his fight with Uvogin. I was quite pleased with Madhouse's version of Whale Island
minus the absence of Kite ever existing or Kon for that matter. But as far as Ging goes...that was done just great.
It made me think...Ah man, Yorknew is gonna be great. We're gonna have this cool search for Greed Island and
Kurapika's quest for revenge. I can't wait to see these two stories clash. I was hoping we get a more "boy's adventure
in the city" type feel with the hunt for Greed Island . Sure it's mainly business type stuff but Hunter x Hunter has
a way of making it fun. Not only did I want to see the competition but I would have enjoyed seeing just how it went down.
I mean can you imagine how hilarious a still-frame montage of Killua at the horse races as he realizes he lost all his money. Comedy gold right there.
I agree with your quote. It's like...what happened, Madhouse?
It's really gotten to the point I can no longer trust Madhouse. Yes, I do still think that what they will show will be done well.
But I no longer see this as the adaptation that us manga fans have finally been waiting for. I think that we may unfortunately never see.
Since this thread seems to be constrained in terms of the accuracy of adaptation, i guess the most immediate thing for me is the portrayal of Hisoka. He is some hot, "sexy" thing in the 2011 anime. Relatively quiet. Slow, slow way of talking, sultry and deliberate voice. Not really the Hisoka in the manga at all or the one in the 1999 anime. In fact the 1999 adaptation is closer.
I'm not sure about your Hisoka argument. I mean manga don't make sound. How is the 1999 closer in regards to his voice?
I mean that in a WHY do you think the 1999 Hisoka voice is more accurate to the manga than the 2011 voice?
If you simply like the 99 voice better then that's fine. But you should then say that. But it sounds like you're
saying 99 is more accurate to Hisoka's voice than the 2011.
I actually find both accurate but giving more focus on different aspects. I give points to the 99 for including the Hunter Exam massacre
(even if I hated the poor animation there) and I give points to the 2011 for including Hisoka vs Kastro. But all in all I'm pretty much
happy with Hisoka's portrayal in both versions. He seems to one that both studios get right. Well to me at least.
Last edited by Uriel; September 12, 2012 at 08:39 PM.
I almost forgot about the omission of Gon and Killua's competition. Although there are a lot of similarities between the two, there are also a lot of differences in the means they go about solving issues, etc. That made me sad. Also, they rushed Leorio's cell phone haggling when meeting the other two in favor of more Kurapika/Phantom Troupe stuff.
Sure, I understand that Yorkshin is Kurapika's arc, but they shouldn't be putting the other 3 characters on a back burner in favor of showing more Kurapika stuff. It takes away from the importance of the other three characters, IMO. Though you are going to seeing differing motives and attitudes between Kurapika and the trio of Killua, Gon, and Leorio, and if we have the Kurapika show going on, the watchers aren't going to get the full impact of the arc.
Hopefully once Gon and Killua get more involved with the spiders they'll get more screentime, but poor Leorio
Kite didn't bother me as much since you could add a flashback any time, but completely taking out any traces of him was completely dumb. I mean, Gon could still have Ging's license and then a Kite flashback occurs later on. Though with how much time they spent in Whale Island, I was half expecting the flashback there, but nooooo....now we may have to wait until we finally see Kite after Greed Island.
I'm not as miffed as others about Leorio's altered scenes. Well, he's still a badass anyway, but it is irksome, believe me. All I can say is, if they get to more recent chapters, they better show Leorio's awesomeness. He deserves it, damn it. I understand he's not as well liked as Gon, Killua, or Kurapika, nor is he as strong as them, but seriously guys, give the guy a break. I didn't mind the alteration done during the Zoldyck arc as much as the current one. Then again, maybe Leorio is that strong physically to open the 2nd gate although Killua, who's been training his whole life, only opened up to 3.
Though thinking about it, it's in terms of exponential strength. There is a huge difference between 8 tons and 16 tons. In any case, Leorio's moment to shine there was cut out.
Then the arm wrestling scene. Again, I wasn't as angry as some, and I do like Leorio's social qualities (again, he is the social powerhouse of the group). But thinking back on it, I don't like the way they handled it. I mean, an underground arm wrestling tournament seems kinda dumb to me. If you're going to change it, why not upgrade it to a boxing match or something more hardcore like that? Really? Arm wrestling?
In any case, I don't think taking away some of these physical aspects of Leorio is hurting his characterization. His social qualities have always taken precedence over his physical qualities. We're still getting the street savvy, smart, hard knocks Leorio everyone loves. Though, despite this, if Leorio doesn't punch Ging in the face later on, I will be quite upset because that is his ultimate moment of badassery. And they better not skimp on his scenes later on in Yorkshin either.
Though I can understand where fans would be more upset than me over this, and I don't think anyone is overreacting in any one direction. I mean, it is an aspect of Leorio that anime-only folks are not seeing. It'd be like omitting Killua's assassin-mode badass scenes, or changing Gon's witty mind, or altering Kurapika's ticking-time-bomb rage. Imagine the outrage if all of the above were true.
And yeah, other scenes like the Sushi scene and censoring Johness' heart to that extent made me sad.
What has Madhouse done right so far? I have no complaints about the Zoldyck arc and Heaven's Arena. Hunter exam was okay, but I wish it wasn't as censored as it was. Then again, Hunter exam isn't my favorite in the manga, so there is some bias there.
I liked that they added Canary filler and I liked the Zushi scenes in Heaven's Arena. The scenes that were added during Whale Island weren't bad, though I wish they would've used the time for those scenes for a Kite flashback. I guess we can't all get what we want, huh?
With all that said, I am a big fan of the 2011 adaptation. I've never seen the 99' series. I wouldn't go so far as to say the 2011 series is doing a shit job at adapting the manga, but it could be doing a better job, and why they're choosing to mess with Yorkshin, I have no idea. I just hope things will get better once Leorio, Gon, and Killua become more involved with the spiders.
I have no real criticisms of Madhouse adaptation as the majority of problems I have with this series are so minor that I don't believe they really matter as they have not had in my opinion any major negative effects on the series. No omission, alteration, filler or mistake has ruined the experience for me what so ever and any criticism I could possibly make would really be nitpicking as I have no serious qualms with the series and continue to find it an incredibly compelling and enjoyable watch each and every week. So with that said I will leave this thread as I have no 'criticisms' to air here. Enjoy guys.
Lol you really made a thread.The biggest flaw of MH adaptation is music direction(sometimes).Ommisions who bother me are competition of Gon and Killua.I don't like the way they treat SECONDARY CHARACTERS to the detriment of Leorio and the 3 other mains are favorised when he is here(Gate scene). The scene where Kikyo hits Canary is also odd.Kite's ommision was bad but i think they' ll do handle it well.
To me the music in Madhouse is either fantastic when done right or on the other side it sounds...almost random.
For instance one music scene I particularly enjoy during Yorknew is during Episode 41 when Neon is being transported.
I love the dreary atmosphere from the scenery and the music invokes. I was irritated with the minor change to
Neon saying her dad Light was out golfing rather than "on vacation with some women." But the overall atmosphere
was still great. The track there was Dirge from the Dark Side.
I have not cared for the overuse and misuse of Chain Bastard and this is one of my favorite tracks believe it or not.
I thought it was good for the car chase though and ironically enough I thought it was well fitting for when
Kurapika was speaking with Light Nostrade on the phone. I dunno but even though it's not really an
action scene there is a sorta badassness to Kurapika climbing up the ranks of the mafia.
However I did not like the use of Chain Bastard in episode 39 when the tattoo lady was talking about the flesh collector.
I think a more appropriate track for that scene would have been...Genei No Banka. I think both tracks have a kind of
"anger" to them but Genei No Banka is a more quiet and actually sad anger. Like someone who's been hurt and wants pay back.
It would feel to me more appropriate to the scene. I also did not like the timing of Chain Bastard during the interrogation.
It seemed to be played too early and kinda threw the mood off. It would have been better if it was played AFTER the punch.
Though how I would have prefer the track and anime to have done is for it to play the moment the Phantom Troupe
notices that Uvogin has been captured and Kurapika drives off HURRIEDLY with a chained Uvogin. Then we get a
bad ass car chase as the music plays. I wanted Madhouse to actually up the ante from the manga. Am I asking
a lot? Yes probably but I mean imagine the Chain Bastard track playing, while Kurapika drives recklessly trying
to interrogate a monster like Uvogin, Melody is getting scared out of her wits, and the rest of the Phantom
Troupe is on their way. While the inner struggle with Kurapika was down well I found the car chase itself lacking.
When it could have been rather amazing.
Honestly the only thing I can say I dislike about Madhouse's work is the music. It's jarring sometimes, and just plain ill-fitting others, which is a real shame since Hirano-san's work is actually quite amazing. Madhouse's placement is so haphazard that it actually makes a really good OST seem...terrible, which is an injustice. Of course this is really objective, so I guess it's not a major deal. Sasashi-san's music wasn't as good (Except for the godly preview theme.) as 2011's, but they knew how to place it properly. I mentioned Franklin mowing down the mob, and I'll throw in when Nobunaga got the phone call from Phinks that alerted him to Gon and Killua tailing them. That scene's music was perfect. I only hope Madhouse can up the ante on the music front, since animation, characterization and atmosphere is usually right on.
Oh and I'm sorta bored with the current OP and ED. Again, subjective.
While I don't think the OST placement is always terrible. I don't think they are using it as well as they could have. They reuse too many
of the same tracks and it's like I like to have some more variety.
Madhouse really needs to learn when to restrain themselves.
And then there are times when a track would fit PERFECTLY and it's like they pick something else and it's like...eh.
I mean I think I will cringe if I hear Chain Bastard during Kurapika vs Uvogin. It just does not fit the mood.
All I got to say is...they BETTER have The Assassin Family Estate's Theme when you know who makes their epic reappearance. }
It would be a CRIME not to.
i don't have much issues on how Madhouse is handling the story. It's been a whole year since I've read the Manga from 1-340. I only have vague memories of whats to come. Thats probably why i enjoy watching the 2011 anime much more. It's reminding me of events and scenes i had vague memories of, especially yorkshin since i don't remember much of how it developed.. I know whats to come but i don't remember specifically of how it develops. Madhouse seems to be doing it right IMO. It's not like i forgot what they omitted or switched up either...
The fan base has been growing a lot since the anime aired. Madhouse has never dropped the quality in storytelling, and people seem to be excited every week which i appreciate. So far this is one of the better adaptations I've seen when it comes to portraying the manga.
Aside from that i think Madhouse's biggest issue is that they have 340 chapters of story to work with. They know how the story is gonna develop. They're taking advantage of the manga instead of "mimicking" it you can say.I guess the 1999 anime had the advantage when it came to this. I see madhouse taking more advantage of the overall story than following the manga panel by panel. Hopefully Greed Island and Ant Arc doesn't go through the same shit. I want a perfect portrayal when it comes to those arcs. =
If I had to complain about anything it would definitely be the music direction. I personally love the entire ost in the madhouse adaptation but the placement of some of the tracks feel really out of place imo. I wish madhouse could keep up the same level of music direction like what they did during the beginning of the Gon vs Hisoka fight.
That's part of the reason I tend to be more picky. The other reason is because I just love Hunter x Hunter that much.
Now I don't necessarily think others who aren't as picky love HxH as much, but for me just about every panel is great.
I mean...perhaps I'm just obsessive but there is something just amazing when seeing Togashi's manga come to life.
This I find is most obvious when dealing with fight scenes.
---------- Post added at 09:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:03 PM ----------
I just wanted to say that before that I had told a user to leave if they didn't have anything to say
and I want everyone to know that I didn't mean to exclude anyone from this discussion.
All I ask is that you contribute to the discussion and so far you have all been doing GREAT!
While, I did not mean to ban anyway, and nobody IS banned for the record, I still
want to apologize for the misunderstanding and bad mojo I've caused anyone.