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Thread: Naruto runs the gauntlet!!

  1. #91
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto runs the gauntlet!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Because just like with people trying to give Minato Genjutsu feats he hasn't displayed, you can't give someone something until they've shown they have it. The fact that Itachi was talking doesn't change the amount of time the Genjutsu was active. He was only talking for a minute, which was 3 days inside of Kakashi's head. And yes, 1 second IS enough because of simple math.

    60 seconds inside Tsukuyomi = 3 days
    3 days = 72 hours
    So 60 seconds translates into 72 hours

    Still with me? Good.

    72 divided by 60 is 1.2

    So each second inside of Tsukuyomi is 1.2 hours worth of time to Naruto. Do you know how much torture Naruto can endure over the span of 1.2 hours? Itachi can:

    Make an image of Sakura and Sasuke berating him as one of them peels the skin from his flesh while the other pours salt over his open wounds...
    while crows peck out his eyes...
    while Kakashi feeds him his own intestines...
    as he hears screams of Kushina and Minato begging him to save them, but being unable to because Kurama's actually devouring them over and over...
    and at the last couple of seconds, dropping an Amaterasu on him for good measure.

    Naruto would be broken after that. Willpower or no.
    Does this kind of tsukuyomi will going to broke naruto's willpower? Naruto train his mind and body to master the sage mode. If Kakashi can endure the 3 days of itachi's tsukuyomi, meaning it was 72 hours, then for naruto not able to fight after 1.2 hours is lil bit of impossible. really! 1.2 hours of torture for naruto with just the scenario you made isn't enough for naruto not able to fight. Naruto right now isn't like before.

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Tsukuyomi has ALWAYS been called instant. It's because they're referring to the CASTING of the jutsu, not the LENGTH of the jutsu. Meaning in 1/1000th of a second, you're already caught. That's the instantaneous part. That's the part the manga states as manga fact.
    There's no doubt about that. It was indeed an instant just because it was a direct eye contact genjutsu. What the problem is, how many second/s is that in the real world? Someone stated that it was happen in an instant and so is in the real world. I never stated that itachi's tsukuyomi isn't an instant to cast, But rather it hard for me to believed that it was also an instant in the real world. But still, So your so called basic math of itachi's tsukuyomi isn't proven yet. It is possible but not yet a manga fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    No he didn't. He said the exact opposite. He said that he's achieved everything and even perfected Sage Mode:http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/579/17

    His Sage Mode was perfect. He stated he was a perfect sage. What he meant by incomplete is that he hadn't reached his full potential yet. And where the hell did you get the idea that absorbing natural energy can save someone from Genjutsu? It doesn't distort their chakra the way an ally can so no, it can't save them from Genjutsu. Especially when we've seen a perfect Sage in Sage Mode still fail to break out of Genjutsu.
    No pal. You're wrong. Kabuto stated that "even orochimaru (he) couldn't become a true sage in the end just like me" Meaning, just like kabuto, orochimaru couldn't become a true sage. Both of them was never able to perfect the sage mode. So maybe you just misinterpret kabuto's statement. kabuto never stated that "even orochimaru couldn't become a true sage in the end unlike me, he just stated that he never completed the sage mode like orochimaru.

    One thing, you can't be sure that sage mode can't save naruto for genjutsu. Sage mode naruto can still absorb natural energy to cancel the genjutsu. Afterall, naruto is already one with the nature. And from the fact that naruto right now can go into sage mode in an instant. Meaning, he can make a senjutsu chakra in an instant, not by concentration but in an instant.


    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Once again I ask: where the hell'd you get this info from? Where did you ever see something like this feat performed, let alone by Naruto? I don't think you understand what paralysis means. It means you make NO movements. At all. The manga has shown there are only about 3 ways out of Genjutsu, and you've just made up two new ones just to try to give Naruto a way out. The only, ONLY ways to escape a Genjutsu is:

    To have an ally distort your chakra for you (like when Gyuuki broke Bee out of Genjutsu).
    Use your own Genjutsu expertise to override it with a stronger Genjutsu, or with Kai (release). Like when Itachi and Sasuke broke eachother out of Genjutsu by casting stronger Genjutsu on eachother.
    Feeling intense pain that shocks the senses to wake you up out of the illusion (like when Shikamaru broke his finger).

    Naruto can do NIETHER of these. Turning off chakra won't help. Secondly, no one ALIVE can turn off their chakra flow. Chakra flows naturally from the tenketsu. Your chakra stops flowing, you DIE.
    Neji closed all naruto's tenketsu but naruto is still alive. And i'm just wondering where the heck in the manga i can find that statement of yours. Infact, there's so many people in konoha who doesn't know how to used their chakra/can't make a chakra/never used a chakra. Jiraiya did said that to naruto, to cancel the genjutsu, you need to stop your chakra flow and release it at once to cancel the genjutsu.


    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    The only way you can come to that conclusion is if you ignore whatelse the manga has shown: http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/142/15

    He says it right here. Having the Sharingan aids in protecting against Tsukuyomi. But the only way to overcome it is with Uchiha blood. Basically what he's saying is, because an Uchiha can use the full potential of the Sharingan at it's full strength without being drained the way Kakashi can, they can defend against Tsukuyomi without suffering as badly as Kakashi does after this fight. That's also the reason why Kakashi couldn't break out of Tsukuyomi, but only survive until it was finished.
    But itachi stated that a normal sharingan can't compete to his MS. He said that on sasuke. Being an uchiha and has the sharingan doesn't mean it aids you protecting against tsukuyomi. But rather, having the MS will going to give you a protection from tsukuyomi.

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/257/9

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/257/10

    So, sasuke never cancel itachi's tsukuyomi for being an uchiha and has a sharingan, but rather, he did escape by using his other chakra, which is the CS. And naruto can used his sage mode chakra in an instant like sasuke's CS.

  2. #92
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    Re: Naruto runs the gauntlet!!

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Does this kind of tsukuyomi will going to broke naruto's willpower? Naruto train his mind and body to master the sage mode. If Kakashi can endure the 3 days of itachi's tsukuyomi, meaning it was 72 hours, then for naruto not able to fight after 1.2 hours is lil bit of impossible. really! 1.2 hours of torture for naruto with just the scenario you made isn't enough for naruto not able to fight. Naruto right now isn't like before.
    Need I remind you Naruto ended up hyperventilating and the collapsing over the thoughts of Sasuke not being savable? I doubt Itachi would have much trouble taking Naruto down with Tsukuyomi with the right scenario involving Sasuke.

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    But itachi stated that a normal sharingan can't compete to his MS. He said that on sasuke. Being an uchiha and has the sharingan doesn't mean it aids you protecting against tsukuyomi. But rather, having the MS will going to give you a protection from tsukuyomi.

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/257/9

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/257/10

    So, sasuke never cancel itachi's tsukuyomi for being an uchiha and has a sharingan, but rather, he did escape by using his other chakra, which is the CS. And naruto can used his sage mode chakra in an instant like sasuke's CS.
    Two things. One, if Sasuke had used CS, the seal would have changed or he would have physically transform. You can't use CS without activating it. And secondly, CS is not a separate source of chakra. CS forcefully draws out the user's own chakra.
    Last edited by Rikudou King; June 09, 2012 at 09:59 PM.

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  4. #93
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto runs the gauntlet!!

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Does this kind of tsukuyomi will going to broke naruto's willpower? Naruto train his mind and body to master the sage mode. If Kakashi can endure the 3 days of itachi's tsukuyomi, meaning it was 72 hours, then for naruto not able to fight after 1.2 hours is lil bit of impossible. really! 1.2 hours of torture for naruto with just the scenario you made isn't enough for naruto not able to fight. Naruto right now isn't like before.
    Itachi went easy on Kakashi. This fact is supported by us knowing Itachi was aiding Konoha in every way possible, and Kakashi wondering why Itachi didn't try to kill him. Itachi probably used Kakashi's infamy as a way to excuse why he could survive Tsukuyomi when no one else could. But it's heavily implied Itachi went easy on Kakashi.

    Thus, Naruto can and will feel SOME effect from Tsukuyomi regardless of how long it is.

    If you want to say Itachi went all out with his Tsukuyomi on Kakashi, prove it. Kakashi's statement and the truth about Itachi proves he went easy enough on Kakashi.




    Quote Quote:
    One thing, you can't be sure that sage mode can't save naruto for genjutsu. Sage mode naruto can still absorb natural energy to cancel the genjutsu. Afterall, naruto is already one with the nature. And from the fact that naruto right now can go into sage mode in an instant. Meaning, he can make a senjutsu chakra in an instant, not by concentration but in an instant.
    Genjutsu messes up chakra control, which Naruto needs to get into Sage Mode. Therefore, if he can't control his chakra, and if Itachi keeps him unable to concentrate, Sage Mode is not happening.

    He still needs to concentrate to get into Sage Mode, otherwise he wouldn't need to stay still. It takes him at least one second to do this, so it's not instant. And it leaves him wide open.

    Itachi might let Naruto get into Sage MOde inadvertently though. Itachi doesn't rush in like Raikage, he observes his enemies, which might give Naruto time to get into Sage Mode if he doesn't go for the attack.




    Quote Quote:
    Neji closed all naruto's tenketsu but naruto is still alive. And i'm just wondering where the heck in the manga i can find that statement of yours. Infact, there's so many people in konoha who doesn't know how to used their chakra/can't make a chakra/never used a chakra. Jiraiya did said that to naruto, to cancel the genjutsu, you need to stop your chakra flow and release it at once to cancel the genjutsu.
    Closing tenketsu doesn't kill because the chakra is still in the body, but it can't be used. The chakra was still flowing in Naruto's body. When Kabuto prevented chakra from getting to Naruto's heart, Naruto would have died.

    Naruto tried that against Itachi and failed. Before Sasuke vs. Itachi, Naruto didn't even bother to do that. Safe to assume it'd be difficult for him to get out of Itachi's genjutsu. As for Sasuke's genjutsu, it's iffy.




    Quote Quote:
    But itachi stated that a normal sharingan can't compete to his MS. He said that on sasuke. Being an uchiha and has the sharingan doesn't mean it aids you protecting against tsukuyomi. But rather, having the MS will going to give you a protection from tsukuyomi.

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/257/9

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/257/10

    So, sasuke never cancel itachi's tsukuyomi for being an uchiha and has a sharingan, but rather, he did escape by using his other chakra, which is the CS. And naruto can used his sage mode chakra in an instant like sasuke's CS.
    Yet Itachi was able to use genjutsu on Sasuke to help him escape from Kabuto's genjutsu. Sasuke was also able to use genjutsu on Itachi's MS. MS and Sharingan don't give protection against genjutsu, it's all up to the users.

    Not really since Naruto would be continuously tortured and unable to concentrate, as well as have his chakra control and flow too messed up to collect and balance Natural Energy.

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  6. #94
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto runs the gauntlet!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Need I remind you Naruto ended up hyperventilating and the collapsing over the thoughts of Sasuke not being savable? I doubt Itachi would have much trouble taking Naruto down with Tsukuyomi with the right scenario involving Sasuke.

    Two things. One, if Sasuke had used CS, the seal would have changed or he would have physically transform. You can't use CS without activating it. And secondly, CS is not a separate source of chakra. CS forcefully draws out the user's own chakra.
    Tsukuyomi involving sasuke? nope. Infact, after that genjutsu, naruto was perfectly fine. For now, naruto who seen his mother and father, who entrusting him with everything, who train to become a sage will never be fall from that genjutsu. And he's now ready to fight sasuke. So the scenario involving sasuke is nothing to naruto right now. Naruto is much more different from the time they fought itachi.

    Sasuke did transform into his CS form. http://www.mangareader.net/93-393-12...apter-388.html

    And one thing, sasuke draws out his chakra but the evil one. His regular chakra is different from his CS. That's the reason why he transform into his CS form, his chakra will become a cold/evil one. So yeah, it's not a seperate source of chakra, but it was different kinds of chakra.

    ---------- Post added at 03:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:40 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Itachi went easy on Kakashi. This fact is supported by us knowing Itachi was aiding Konoha in every way possible, and Kakashi wondering why Itachi didn't try to kill him. Itachi probably used Kakashi's infamy as a way to excuse why he could survive Tsukuyomi when no one else could. But it's heavily implied Itachi went easy on Kakashi.

    Thus, Naruto can and will feel SOME effect from Tsukuyomi regardless of how long it is.

    If you want to say Itachi went all out with his Tsukuyomi on Kakashi, prove it. Kakashi's statement and the truth about Itachi proves he went easy enough on Kakashi.
    do i need to proved it? That tsukuyomi alone can be determined that itachi is really serious at that time. Stabbing for 72 hours and you called that an easy one? No, stabbing someone for 72 hours is a brutal way of itachi to broke kakashi's willpower. Do you know the pain when you have been stab by a sword? Let alone for 72 hours? I've been stab by a knife in real life, and i tell you, it was a freaking painful. How much more for kakashi when he was stab by a sword, not by every hour nor every minute. It was somehow instantaneous or It's like every 5 or 10 seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Genjutsu messes up chakra control, which Naruto needs to get into Sage Mode. Therefore, if he can't control his chakra, and if Itachi keeps him unable to concentrate, Sage Mode is not happening.
    Does naruto needs to concentrate? Naruto did become a sage mode in an instant when iruka and his gang stop him to escape in the hideout. I think it was his clone who needs to concentrate to gather senjutsu chakra. but for real naruto, his sage mode is an instant. Just like sasuke who escape from itachi's tsukuyomi by using his CS mode, then maybe, (as in an assumption) that naruto can escape by using his sage mode.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    He still needs to concentrate to get into Sage Mode, otherwise he wouldn't need to stay still. It takes him at least one second to do this, so it's not instant. And it leaves him wide open.
    If we based your counting from .1 to 1 second then maybe you're right. But i doubt itachi's tsukuyomi can be cast by .1 or .2 ms. Itachi needs to concentrate to his oponents eyes to cast his tsukuyomi. So it takes him 1 to 2 seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Itachi might let Naruto get into Sage MOde inadvertently though. Itachi doesn't rush in like Raikage, he observes his enemies, which might give Naruto time to get into Sage Mode if he doesn't go for the attack.
    No. naruto can goes directly to his RM. If not, the kyubi can make naruto used immediately the BM to kill itachi. So, sage mode is just a back plan if the RM and BM failed.



    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Closing tenketsu doesn't kill because the chakra is still in the body, but it can't be used. The chakra was still flowing in Naruto's body. When Kabuto prevented chakra from getting to Naruto's heart, Naruto would have died.
    If the tenketsu closed, then naruto can't used chakra right? meaning, his chakra flow was somehow stop. Afterall, the chakra can't flow just because the tenketsu is closed. Ninjabot stated that when anyone stop his chakra to flow then he will going to die. That's why i was somehow disagree to his statement. Stopping your chakra flow with your own accord is different from stopping the flow of your chakra by your enemy's attack. That's not the same.

    I thought kabuto was directly attack naruto's heart for stopping the heartbeat and not that he preventing naruto's chakra from getting to naruto's heart.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Naruto tried that against Itachi and failed. Before Sasuke vs. Itachi, Naruto didn't even bother to do that. Safe to assume it'd be difficult for him to get out of Itachi's genjutsu. As for Sasuke's genjutsu, it's iffy.
    That's exactly my point, he tried it but he failed. So it safe to assume that instead by stopping his chakra flow, naruto can absorb/go into sage mode to cancel itachi's genjutsu.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Yet Itachi was able to use genjutsu on Sasuke to help him escape from Kabuto's genjutsu. Sasuke was also able to use genjutsu on Itachi's MS. MS and Sharingan don't give protection against genjutsu, it's all up to the users.
    Look here, http://www.mangareader.net/93-393-6/...apter-388.html , itachi did clearly stated that sasuke can't defeat him with just a sharingan. Sasuke can't defeat itachi's tsukuyomi with just his sharingan. That's what the manga has shown. So sasuke did escape to itachi's tsukuyomi through his CS mode. And not by having an uchiha blood and a sharingan.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Not really since Naruto would be continuously tortured and unable to concentrate, as well as have his chakra control and flow too messed up to collect and balance Natural Energy.
    Well, it depends. Because this scenario is somehow useless if naruto can really go into sage mode in an instant just like the manga has shown. Or naruto can used the kyubi's chakra who was in the other place of his mind.

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    Re: Naruto runs the gauntlet!!

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    Tsukuyomi involving sasuke? nope. Infact, after that genjutsu, naruto was perfectly fine. For now, naruto who seen his mother and father, who entrusting him with everything, who train to become a sage will never be fall from that genjutsu. And he's now ready to fight sasuke. So the scenario involving sasuke is nothing to naruto right now. Naruto is much more different from the time they fought itachi.

    Sasuke did transform into his CS form. http://www.mangareader.net/93-393-12...apter-388.html

    And one thing, sasuke draws out his chakra but the evil one. His regular chakra is different from his CS. That's the reason why he transform into his CS form, his chakra will become a cold/evil one. So yeah, it's not a seperate source of chakra, but it was different kinds of chakra.
    First off, I was talking about what happen after the summit, which proved otherwise in your claim that "Naruto had trained his mind and body". Secondly, Naruto was fine afterward because it was a regular genjutsu and he had someone break him out. The fact that Naruto can't let go of Sasuke proves that scenarios involving Sasuke aren't "nothing" but everything.

    That's an illusion. Again, if Sasuke had really used CS, then we would see the markings upon him or him transformed when they return to the real world. He wouldn't appear like normal had he actually activated it. And no, the Cursed Seal draws out the user's own chakra. It's not a separate or different kind of chakra. It's the user's very own chakra. Sasuke's chakra is naturally cold, as we have clearly been shown even after he had lost CS.

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  9. #96
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    Re: Naruto runs the gauntlet!!

    Quote Quote:
    Does this kind of tsukuyomi will going to broke naruto's willpower? Naruto train his mind and body to master the sage mode.
    No he didn't. He sat still. There was no training of body (he sat STILL), and sure as hell wasn't any training of mind. Inorder to learn sage mode he mastered balancing his chakra with natural energy. That's not strengthening your mind or body. No.
    Quote Quote:
    If Kakashi can endure the 3 days of itachi's tsukuyomi, meaning it was 72 hours, then for naruto not able to fight after 1.2 hours is lil bit of impossible. really! 1.2 hours of torture for naruto with just the scenario you made isn't enough for naruto not able to fight. Naruto right now isn't like before.
    It doesn't work like that. Kakashi surviving Tsukuyomi had nothing at all to do with willpower, chakra reserve, mind power, or physical strength. It was simply due to his access to a Sharingan aswell as his proficiency with it. That's it. That's all. I don't care how much willpower Naruto has, I don't care how much he believes in himself, and I don't care how well he's mastered Sage Mode. If he doesn't have a Sharingan and Uchiha blood, Tsukuyomi will one-shot him.

    Quote Quote:
    There's no doubt about that. It was indeed an instant just because it was a direct eye contact genjutsu. What the problem is, how many second/s is that in the real world? Someone stated that it was happen in an instant and so is in the real world. I never stated that itachi's tsukuyomi isn't an instant to cast, But rather it hard for me to believed that it was also an instant in the real world. But still, So your so called basic math of itachi's tsukuyomi isn't proven yet. It is possible but not yet a manga fact.
    It IS an instant in the real world. It takes an instant in the real world to cast the jutsu. But that instant in the real world lasts longer inside of the victims mind. You think that because the time inside of Kakashi's mind was 3 days that that means Kakashi had a whole 3 days to manage to escape, and that Naruto does aswell. That's not the case.

    Quote Quote:
    No pal. You're wrong. Kabuto stated that "even orochimaru (he) couldn't become a true sage in the end just like me" Meaning, just like kabuto, orochimaru couldn't become a true sage. Both of them was never able to perfect the sage mode. So maybe you just misinterpret kabuto's statement. kabuto never stated that "even orochimaru couldn't become a true sage in the end unlike me, he just stated that he never completed the sage mode like orochimaru.
    This is 100% wrong. I won't dwell on it too much because english obviously isn't your first language, but I'll still explain it to avoid any more discussion on it later:
    Kabuto states that Orochimaru couldn't become a true sage like him. He means that he himself WAS a perfect sage, which is a feat that Orochimaru himself wasn't even good enough to perform. He could not become a perfect Sage, which Kabuto was, proven by the fact that he had become a dragon (horns), where as Orochimaru had not.

    An analogy is if I was comparing my drawing skill to my brother, and he was an inferior artist. If I was bragging (which Kabuto was), I would say "You will never become a perfect artist like me." Because I'm a perfect artist. And he isn't. The "like me" part doesn't mean that I'm including his failure in the description of myself as if I'm saying "you will never become a perfect artist just like I've never become a perfect artist."

    Quote Quote:
    One thing, you can't be sure that sage mode can't save naruto for genjutsu. Sage mode naruto can still absorb natural energy to cancel the genjutsu. Afterall, naruto is already one with the nature. And from the fact that naruto right now can go into sage mode in an instant. Meaning, he can make a senjutsu chakra in an instant, not by concentration but in an instant.
    Yes I can, since we've already seen a PERFECT SAGE get caught with Genjutsu and fail to escape it. Granted, Izanami is on a whole nother level from Tsukuyomi or basic Sharingan Genjutsu. But the fact of the matter is, Kabuto's sage chakra hasn't saved him from the illusion yet. So there's no reason to assume the same will happen with Naruto.

    Secondly Naruto is not one with nature, or else he'd never run out of natural energy. Thirdly, where's your proof that Naruto can absorb natural energy while trapped in a Genjutsu? Reaching Sage Mode requires a perfect balance of chakra and if you're caught in a Genjutsu, your chakra is at an imbalance. It's altered by your opponent.

    Quote Quote:
    Neji closed all naruto's tenketsu but naruto is still alive. And i'm just wondering where the heck in the manga i can find that statement of yours. Infact, there's so many people in konoha who doesn't know how to used their chakra/can't make a chakra/never used a chakra. Jiraiya did said that to naruto, to cancel the genjutsu, you need to stop your chakra flow and release it at once to cancel the genjutsu.
    No he didn't. He closed 64 of them. And there are far more than 64. He took away his ability to use jutsu, that's all. He even states it here:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/103/10
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/103/11

    Quote Quote:
    But itachi stated that a normal sharingan can't compete to his MS. He said that on sasuke. Being an uchiha and has the sharingan doesn't mean it aids you protecting against tsukuyomi. But rather, having the MS will going to give you a protection from tsukuyomi.
    You're half right. He did say that regular Sharingan can't compete to his MS. And it's true. Regular Sharingan can't compete in a test of pure power. No regular Sharingan can produce the same feats that his MS can.
    But just because it can't compete with it in power, doesn't mean it can't defend successfully. If it were true then he wouldn't have told us that all it takes is a Sharingan aswell as "the same blood as him".

    Quote Quote:
    So, sasuke never cancel itachi's tsukuyomi for being an uchiha and has a sharingan, but rather, he did escape by using his other chakra, which is the CS. And naruto can used his sage mode chakra in an instant like sasuke's CS.
    You're wrong. If what you're saying is true, that means the Curse Seal is more powerful than Sage Mode. Because Kabuto's Sage Mode couldn't break him out of Izanami, but Sasuke's Curse Seal broke him out of Tsukuyomi.
    Either you accept that Sasuke's Sharingan and uchiha blood saved him from Tsukuyomi, or you accept that the Curse Seal gives one more power than Sage Mode. Which one of these makes more sense?

  10. #97
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto runs the gauntlet!!

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    do i need to proved it? That tsukuyomi alone can be determined that itachi is really serious at that time. Stabbing for 72 hours and you called that an easy one? No, stabbing someone for 72 hours is a brutal way of itachi to broke kakashi's willpower. Do you know the pain when you have been stab by a sword? Let alone for 72 hours? I've been stab by a knife in real life, and i tell you, it was a freaking painful. How much more for kakashi when he was stab by a sword, not by every hour nor every minute. It was somehow instantaneous or It's like every 5 or 10 seconds.
    Jiraiya used rasengan on the two Iwa chuunin when he and Naruto went out to find Tsunade, but he wasn't serious and spared them. Itachi did the same here. There are two proofs that Itachi went easy on Kakashi, thus it's up to you find proof that he was going all out. Tsukuyomi isn't Shiki Fuuin, it doesn't kill automatically or hurt, Itachi can control the damage. Why do three days or just stab Kakashi with a sword repetitively when he could have done much worse?



    Quote Quote:
    Does naruto needs to concentrate? Naruto did become a sage mode in an instant when iruka and his gang stop him to escape in the hideout. I think it was his clone who needs to concentrate to gather senjutsu chakra. but for real naruto, his sage mode is an instant. Just like sasuke who escape from itachi's tsukuyomi by using his CS mode, then maybe, (as in an assumption) that naruto can escape by using his sage mode.
    Sage Mode is different, as his chakra control is still too messed up. Sage Mode doesn't happen in an instant, Naruto still has to concentrate, even if for a second. Naruto wasn't moving until he got into Sage Mode.



    Quote Quote:
    If we based your counting from .1 to 1 second then maybe you're right. But i doubt itachi's tsukuyomi can be cast by .1 or .2 ms. Itachi needs to concentrate to his oponents eyes to cast his tsukuyomi. So it takes him 1 to 2 seconds.
    Enough time for Naruto to be put in a genjutsu. He's been put in a genjutsu by Itachi almost every time they met in Part II. Naruto was still looking at ET Itachi in the eyes and staying still right before Itachi used Amaterasu on Nagato's summons.



    Quote Quote:
    No. naruto can goes directly to his RM. If not, the kyubi can make naruto used immediately the BM to kill itachi. So, sage mode is just a back plan if the RM and BM failed.
    Bijuu Mode won't work, it'll make Naruto a bigger target. Susano'o's shield is enough to protect Itachi, and he can always outrun bijuu bomb if he knows it's coming, provided it's not coming at lightning speed. If what Madara says is right, then not even the Kyuubi with half its power can stand up to Madara with complete Susano'o.





    Quote Quote:
    If the tenketsu closed, then naruto can't used chakra right? meaning, his chakra flow was somehow stop. Afterall, the chakra can't flow just because the tenketsu is closed. Ninjabot stated that when anyone stop his chakra to flow then he will going to die. That's why i was somehow disagree to his statement. Stopping your chakra flow with your own accord is different from stopping the flow of your chakra by your enemy's attack. That's not the same.
    How would his chakra flow be stopped? His chakra would still flow, but he'd be unable to use chakra.

    Quote Quote:
    I thought kabuto was directly attack naruto's heart for stopping the heartbeat and not that he preventing naruto's chakra from getting to naruto's heart.
    He had to severe the chakra connection to avoid Naruto's heart being healed, if I recall.



    Quote Quote:
    That's exactly my point, he tried it but he failed. So it safe to assume that instead by stopping his chakra flow, naruto can absorb/go into sage mode to cancel itachi's genjutsu.
    Won't happen because his chakra would be messed up, and Naruto would be unable to concentrate. Sage Mode won't work.



    Quote Quote:
    Look here, http://www.mangareader.net/93-393-6/...apter-388.html , itachi did clearly stated that sasuke can't defeat him with just a sharingan. Sasuke can't defeat itachi's tsukuyomi with just his sharingan. That's what the manga has shown. So sasuke did escape to itachi's tsukuyomi through his CS mode. And not by having an uchiha blood and a sharingan.
    ... this does not work as Sasuke does have an Uchiha blood and Sharingan....



    Quote Quote:
    Well, it depends. Because this scenario is somehow useless if naruto can really go into sage mode in an instant just like the manga has shown. Or naruto can used the kyubi's chakra who was in the other place of his mind.
    Manga hasn't shown Naruto getting into Sage Mode in an instant. More like at least a second. Doubt Naruto will have time or ability to get Kyuubi's chakra when he's busy being tortured.

  11. #98
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member metalia's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto runs the gauntlet!!

    Probably losing at Madara and 1st Hokage.

    There's some people arguing about Naruto being caught in genjutsu, but as the manga stated a few times, it isn't posible to catch a jinchuuriki in genjutsu since their bijuu will restore the flow of chacra.

    And yes, Sasuke used his Sharingan to brake Tsukuyomi. As Zetsu stated, it isn't needed a MS to escape Tsukuyomi if u have enough skill with the three tomoe sharingan. However, this Itachi vs Sasuke fight can't be taken seriously as Itachi didn't want to kill Sasuke.
    Last edited by metalia; June 20, 2012 at 07:33 PM.

  12. #99
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto runs the gauntlet!!

    Manga never said it was impossible to catch a jinchuuriki in genjutsu. We saw it happen to Bee twice. Naruto will be caught in a genjutsu, no doubt, since all evidence points to that. However, the Kyuubi will either tell him or break him out of it if it needs to. The problem is whether it'll be in time for Naruto to defend or get hit.

  13. #100
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member metalia's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto runs the gauntlet!!

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Manga never said it was impossible to catch a jinchuuriki in genjutsu. We saw it happen to Bee twice. Naruto will be caught in a genjutsu, no doubt, since all evidence points to that. However, the Kyuubi will either tell him or break him out of it if it needs to. The problem is whether it'll be in time for Naruto to defend or get hit.
    Sure, I expressed myself the wrong way. I'm not saying they won't fall in genjutsu, but saying they will break the genjutsu with ease so it's quite pointless to try.

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