right in front of our eyes...the SENJUtsu CLAN

[hyper_megaman]

Explain. Im hopefully interpreting this wrong, but Naruto is amongst the most powerful in the series and can kick the ass of most of the ninja world. Less than average jounins? (Im hopefully interpreting this wrong)

because right now they're needing naruto in fighting brute force with brute force. all naruto was doing at this point was just spamming his power battlefield-wide and then focusing on taking on 5 tailed beasts who do nothing but charge and destroy

naruto would get easily entrapped by an experienced ninja such as itachi or kakashi. Naruto would be worthless against someone like madara, and would just wear himself out eventually.

in case you haven't noticed, naruto isn't a ninja at all. he's just a huge tank who's good at dealing and soaking up mass destruction while being powered by a tailed beast



look at the jounins. let's raise some biggie examples like kakashi, minato, itachi, sasuke, jiraiya to better see the distinction.

they walk into any situation, they handle it well, be it an ambush or mental illusions or dealing with traps. you'd feel safer with them around than naruto, because they're all-rounders.

Hell, even Asuma, Ebisu, Kurenai, Shikamaru could probably entrap or outwit him. it's definitely going to be problematic trying to kill him, but I have no doubts they'd be able to waste heaps of his time while he wears himself out.

naruto just walks into everything and wastes his chakra doing rasengan and kage bunshin, incurring huge damage to himself in the process.

as of right now, he's a master of damage dishing and absorption, that's all.



If i were Kage, the only missions i'd dare hand to him would be those requiring flat-out firepower. nothing more.

[KiSwordsman]

True, but you're not really giving the guy much credit. Granted, as of late, the author hasn't given you much reason to. However, Naruto has been shown to think on his feet many times. So, he's not just "Hulk Smash" all the time.

P.S: No, I would not feel safe with Sasuke. The reason for this is because, the second I prove to be an inconvenience, I'm as good as dead.

[hyper_megaman]

True, but you're not really giving the guy much credit. Granted, as of late, the author hasn't given you much reason to. However, Naruto has been shown to think on his feet many times. So, he's not just "Hulk Smash" all the time.

P.S: No, I would not feel safe with Sasuke. The reason for this is because, the second I prove to be an inconvenience, I'm as good as dead.

well that was based on the assumption that they intended to protect you, including Sasuke

Nice analogy with 'hulk smash' btw. haha.

Naruto's 'thinking on his feet' feats are few and far in-between, to be more like random stray ideas than actual consistent performances attributable to his, apparently lacking, capability as a ninja

[KiSwordsman]

But it's still there. Hell, the only reason it isn't as consistant as most people would like is because, more often than not, the character is used as a comic relief device or a way to show strength, or ability in other characters, especially recently. That is because of Kishimoto's initial portrayal of Naruto. So it ends up coming across as "believable." While at the same time he has "developed" Naruto enough as a character so that his intelligence doesn't seem Left-Field-ish. However, It comes across that way do to the fact that Naruto never seems to be able to stay intelligent for long. He always has to be saved by something or some circumstance, so his heroism comes off a little hollow.


But it's not like Kishimoto uses Naruto only. He's just used the most because we see him the most. Recent example, Sasuke. The last fully living Uchiha is far more intelligent, cunning and strategic than your average teenager. However, in this recent fight we barely see any of that. It's obvious that he was used to showcase his brothers greatness due to the fact that he needed rescuing from Kabuto on at least two occasions. Never really contributing anything major to the fight, following his brothers lead almost completely. We know Sasuke is better than that which is why it was more obvious.

[Uchiha_Blood]

because right now they're needing naruto in fighting brute force with brute force. all naruto was doing at this point was just spamming his power battlefield-wide and then focusing on taking on 5 tailed beasts who do nothing but charge and destroy

naruto would get easily entrapped by an experienced ninja such as itachi or kakashi. Naruto would be worthless against someone like madara, and would just wear himself out eventually.

in case you haven't noticed, naruto isn't a ninja at all. he's just a huge tank who's good at dealing and soaking up mass destruction while being powered by a tailed beast



look at the jounins. let's raise some biggie examples like kakashi, minato, itachi, sasuke, jiraiya to better see the distinction.

they walk into any situation, they handle it well, be it an ambush or mental illusions or dealing with traps. you'd feel safer with them around than naruto, because they're all-rounders.

Hell, even Asuma, Ebisu, Kurenai, Shikamaru could probably entrap or outwit him. it's definitely going to be problematic trying to kill him, but I have no doubts they'd be able to waste heaps of his time while he wears himself out.

naruto just walks into everything and wastes his chakra doing rasengan and kage bunshin, incurring huge damage to himself in the process.

as of right now, he's a master of damage dishing and absorption, that's all.



If i were Kage, the only missions i'd dare hand to him would be those requiring flat-out firepower. nothing more.

Minato isn't a Jounin level ninja, same with Jiraiya, Sasuke and Itachi ( and of every one you mentioned, imho only Yondaime and Itachi would effectively outsmart him and deal significant damage, Shika could too but he simply lack the means to inflict any harm on him ).
Not only that, but I can link you countless of examples where the "tank" Naruto outwitted an opponent, even in situations with and against ninjas smarter than him:

Zabuza fight; he single-handedly formulated a plan to free Kakashi taking into account his and Sasuke's strenghts.
Him, not Sasuke.

Kiba fight; outsmarted Kiba in making him hit Akamaru, KO'ing him. All the while with his chakra control screwed, and after 5 days of non-stop survival.

Neji fight; outsmarted him, a supposed genius superior even to Sasuke twice:
when he predicted Neji going for the one on the back of the mass of clones, and in the final moment of the match.

Gaara fight; before overpowering him, he hit Gaara in the weak spot of his Sand Armour thus immobilizing, feat that Sasuke, despite having way better speed couldn't do, not even having thinked about it.

Kabuto fight; despite being overly inferior to the opponent, he found a way to not only trap him, but also to complete the Rasengan.
In-fighting.

Kakuzu fight; outsmarted a 90+ years old ninja that survived against Hashirama and made short work of Kakashi + team 10 while being all tired from non-stop training.

Pein fight; manage to deal with the shared vision of 6 bodies of Pein, taking out 5 of them through strategy, same thing when he created 100+ clones and transformated them into rocks to the point where a Rin'negan user couldn't even see when he did it.

Third Raikage fight; despite going against a comparable opponent in speed with better reflexes, he managed to hit him with his stronger jutsu all by himself.
Not only that, but he discovered the Third's weakness and exploited it not using his stronger ability ( Chakra Mode + FRS ) but his most useful ( Sage Mode + Rasengan )

Tobi fight; devised a way to free the Bijuu all by himself, freeing them from Tobi's control. while combining Sage Mode and Chakra/Kyuubi Mode.

And also I find it funny that people believes that Naruto is the dumbest ninja there is when he was never outsmarted by anyone in a combat situation, bar Itachi's magic eye.
Oh, and the Nagato one, which is a grand total of 2 occasions in what, almost 20 battles?

And yet I don't see ppl complaining about Sasuke never using Raitons on Kabuto's water body, fully knowing the weakness of the jutsu and the non-lethalness of his own or the Uchiha bro falling to a B rank genjutsu or Itachi being cut in half by Kabuto or Raikage punching through black flames of doom or Danzou using a kunai on Susano'o or Tobi falling for Fu and Turune's combo or Sasuke going taijutsu against Bee despite being vastly inferior, needing a phoenix down twice or Asuma being outwitted by Hidan (!) when he impaled himself with his schyte or Sasuke falling for Oro's poison mist despite having researched on the snake and attacking him on his death-bed or Sasori being unable to deal with Sakura (!) or Kakashi going into water against a Ninja using Suiton, from the village famous for his Suiton jutsus and the whole shortcomings of the ones mentioned above.

But of course he is Naruto, he is stupid, haxed and an arrogant one trick pony ( which is partly true, I mean he is not the sharpest tool in the shed, is one of the most haxed and doesn't know a great number of jutsus, yet messages like the one above really makes my inner Naruto fanboy emerge ) and despite being so overly bad as a character and overpowered he is weak to the point that other balanced, skilled, and intelligent characters have to rely on jutsus that required enormous level of skill, training and intelligence to be used ( Amaterasu ) are not overpowered at all ( Itachi's Tsukuyomi or Totsuka Sword, Hashirama's Flower World ) or not overly costly in chakra ( City Buster Shinra Tensei & Chibaku Tensei ) to defeat him, even without taking into account his Bijuu Mode.

Below Jounin level, indeed

[Exodi]

Minato isn't a Jounin level ninja, same with Jiraiya, Sasuke and Itachi ( and of every one you mentioned, imho only Yondaime and Itachi would effectively outsmart him and deal significant damage, Shika could too but he simply lack the means to inflict any harm on him ).
Not only that, but I can link you countless of examples where the "tank" Naruto outwitted an opponent, even in situations with and against ninjas smarter than him:

Zabuza fight; he single-handedly formulated a plan to free Kakashi taking into account his and Sasuke's strenghts.
Him, not Sasuke.

Kiba fight; outsmarted Kiba in making him hit Akamaru, KO'ing him. All the while with his chakra control screwed, and after 5 days of non-stop survival.

Neji fight; outsmarted him, a supposed genius superior even to Sasuke twice:
when he predicted Neji going for the one on the back of the mass of clones, and in the final moment of the match.

Gaara fight; before overpowering him, he hit Gaara in the weak spot of his Sand Armour thus immobilizing, feat that Sasuke, despite having way better speed couldn't do, not even having thinked about it.

Kabuto fight; despite being overly inferior to the opponent, he found a way to not only trap him, but also to complete the Rasengan.
In-fighting.

Kakuzu fight; outsmarted a 90+ years old ninja that survived against Hashirama and made short work of Kakashi + team 10 while being all tired from non-stop training.

Pein fight; manage to deal with the shared vision of 6 bodies of Pein, taking out 5 of them through strategy, same thing when he created 100+ clones and transformated them into rocks to the point where a Rin'negan user couldn't even see when he did it.

Third Raikage fight; despite going against a comparable opponent in speed with better reflexes, he managed to hit him with his stronger jutsu all by himself.
Not only that, but he discovered the Third's weakness and exploited it not using his stronger ability ( Chakra Mode + FRS ) but his most useful ( Sage Mode + Rasengan )

Tobi fight; devised a way to free the Bijuu all by himself, freeing them from Tobi's control. while combining Sage Mode and Chakra/Kyuubi Mode.

And also I find it funny that people believes that Naruto is the dumbest ninja there is when he was never outsmarted by anyone in a combat situation, bar Itachi's magic eye.
Oh, and the Nagato one, which is a grand total of 2 occasions in what, almost 20 battles?

And yet I don't see ppl complaining about Sasuke never using Raitons on Kabuto's water body, fully knowing the weakness of the jutsu and the non-lethalness of his own or the Uchiha bro falling to a B rank genjutsu or Itachi being cut in half by Kabuto or Raikage punching through black flames of doom or Danzou using a kunai on Susano'o or Tobi falling for Fu and Turune's combo or Sasuke going taijutsu against Bee despite being vastly inferior, needing a phoenix down twice or Asuma being outwitted by Hidan (!) when he impaled himself with his schyte or Sasuke falling for Oro's poison mist despite having researched on the snake and attacking him on his death-bed or Sasori being unable to deal with Sakura (!) or Kakashi going into water against a Ninja using Suiton, from the village famous for his Suiton jutsus and the whole shortcomings of the ones mentioned above.

But of course he is Naruto, he is stupid, haxed and an arrogant one trick pony ( which is partly true, I mean he is not the sharpest tool in the shed, is one of the most haxed and doesn't know a great number of jutsus, yet messages like the one above really makes my inner Naruto fanboy emerge ) and despite being so overly bad as a character and overpowered he is weak to the point that other balanced, skilled, and intelligent characters have to rely on jutsus that required enormous level of skill, training and intelligence to be used ( Amaterasu ) are not overpowered at all ( Itachi's Tsukuyomi or Totsuka Sword, Hashirama's Flower World ) or not overly costly in chakra ( City Buster Shinra Tensei & Chibaku Tensei ) to defeat him, even without taking into account his Bijuu Mode.

Below Jounin level, indeed

You know, I'm inclined to agree with you, Naruto is great and all. He's not actually a complete idiot. But he wouldn't be where he is now if it weren't for the only 2 jutsu he uses. If he didn't have a ridiculous amount of chakra, with which he could perform Kage Bunshin (a lot), which is what got him through most of the situations you mentioned, what would he be? If he didn't have all that stamina, what would he be?

Also, if letting your opponent stab you in the hand just to hold them in place is "trapping" them, well.......shit, I don't know. All Kabuto had to do was wiggle or something. I guess Naruto has the grip of the jaws of life or something.

So yeah, Naruto isn't a complete dolt, but I think when people think of "ninja", they mean someone who uses his skills to avoid damage while causing damage. Being covert and not running into situations. Naruto rarely does that.

[hyper_megaman]

You know, I'm inclined to agree with you, Naruto is great and all. He's not actually a complete idiot. But he wouldn't be where he is now if it weren't for the only 2 jutsu he uses. If he didn't have a ridiculous amount of chakra, with which he could perform Kage Bunshin (a lot), which is what got him through most of the situations you mentioned, what would he be? If he didn't have all that stamina, what would he be?

Also, if letting your opponent stab you in the hand just to hold them in place is "trapping" them, well.......shit, I don't know. All Kabuto had to do was wiggle or something. I guess Naruto has the grip of the jaws of life or something.

So yeah, Naruto isn't a complete dolt, but I think when people think of "ninja", they mean someone who uses his skills to avoid damage while causing damage. Being covert and not running into situations. Naruto rarely does that.

precisely! he's hardly a ninja at all!

i don't think ninjas cuold kill the hulk, and the hulk would easily be able to defeat ninjas if they aren't careful.. it does not make hulk a ninja

he's just a walking damage sponge and bomb, a tank.




we don't know how much disruption the kyuubi was causing to his chakra control, like i mentioned in page 1. so for now we can't really put any blame on that.

in that case, it's actually pretty sad to point out if not for the kyuubi's support, naruto would have been worse off than rock lee. his only saving grace at this part of the storyline is to blame all his lousy chakra control on the kyuubi. i want to see naruto as a second hashirama, i really do, and that requires that he be able to use 1) an abundance of skills and 2) do so efficiently

[Uchiha_Blood]

You know, I'm inclined to agree with you, Naruto is great and all. He's not actually a complete idiot. But he wouldn't be where he is now if it weren't for the only 2 jutsu he uses. If he didn't have a ridiculous amount of chakra, with which he could perform Kage Bunshin (a lot), which is what got him through most of the situations you mentioned, what would he be? If he didn't have all that stamina, what would he be?

Also, if letting your opponent stab you in the hand just to hold them in place is "trapping" them, well.......shit, I don't know. All Kabuto had to do was wiggle or something. I guess Naruto has the grip of the jaws of life or something.

So yeah, Naruto isn't a complete dolt, but I think when people think of "ninja", they mean someone who uses his skills to avoid damage while causing damage. Being covert and not running into situations. Naruto rarely does that.

The problem in that reasoning is that Naruto is like almost every other character in the manga in this aspect.
Did you read the last fight? Outside of MS what did Sasuke and Itachi used? A sword and a Crow Bushin. What did Kakashi used against the bijuus? Raikiri and a derivate of Raikiri. What did the rookies use? Same jutsu of their family over and over.
Except Mei, the Kages showcased more than a jutsu or two? Oonoki used a Doton and Dust Release spam, Raikage his Raiton Armour, Gaara his Sand, Tsunade her super strenght + Byakugou.
It isn't a matter of Naruto anymore, is a matter of the manga being that way. If you count variations in the mix, Naruto used, if I'm not wrong, at least 5 new kinds of Rasengan against the Zetsu fodder only.

It is a shounen matter, the main never, never has more than a few signature moves, that's why they often have new modes to compensate for that.
I believe everyone would want a Naruto like his father, that can do all kinds of sick seals upon touching the opponent, or have countless Fuuton jutsus or whatever. Shame it will never be that way, but also because the manga is constructed that way

precisely! he's hardly a ninja at all!

i don't think ninjas cuold kill the hulk, and the hulk would easily be able to defeat ninjas if they aren't careful.. it does not make hulk a ninja

he's just a walking damage sponge and bomb, a tank.




we don't know how much disruption the kyuubi was causing to his chakra control, like i mentioned in page 1. so for now we can't really put any blame on that.

in that case, it's actually pretty sad to point out if not for the kyuubi's support, naruto would have been worse off than rock lee. his only saving grace at this part of the storyline is to blame all his lousy chakra control on the kyuubi. i want to see naruto as a second hashirama, i really do, and that requires that he be able to use 1) an abundance of skills and 2) do so efficiently

Please link me when a "ninja" acted as a ninja, except for Kakashi and Itachi.
The same Hashirama that you quoted isn't this great jutsu library, he has Mokuton that spawns that forest jutsu, the flower world and the regeneration Tsunade has too. Him suppressing Bijuu, for example, isn't some godly jutsu, but only his special chakra.
Senju were called that way because they had a thousand skills, but not concentrated in a single person, hell Tobirama had S/T jutsus and created Edo Tensei, one of the strongest and most renomated Genjutsu user was a Senju, and Tsunade herself created her super-strenght and Byakugou.

[Airgrimes]

because right now they're needing naruto in fighting brute force with brute force. all naruto was doing at this point was just spamming his power battlefield-wide and then focusing on taking on 5 tailed beasts who do nothing but charge and destroy

naruto would get easily entrapped by an experienced ninja such as itachi or kakashi. Naruto would be worthless against someone like madara, and would just wear himself out eventually.

in case you haven't noticed, naruto isn't a ninja at all. he's just a huge tank who's good at dealing and soaking up mass destruction while being powered by a tailed beast

Thing is though, there aren't many like Itachi and Kakashi. They are Kage level.
So to say Average jounin was wrong but I get your point totally.
In Naruto's tier bracket he is likely the worst ninja out of them all correct.
He would be crap at trying to stay hidden and unseen lol.

look at the jounins. let's raise some biggie examples like kakashi, minato, itachi, sasuke, jiraiya to better see the distinction.

Sasuke isnt a Jounin.
Also, youve listed Kage level ninjas. Your not reading the story right if you see these guys as ''average Jounin'' like you speak of.
Average Jounins are: Temari, Kankuro, Genma, Kurenai, Shikaku, Ibiki, Anko, Yamato etc.

they walk into any situation, they handle it well, be it an ambush or mental illusions or dealing with traps. you'd feel safer with them around than naruto, because they're all-rounders.

You say Naruto does less than what average jounins do. That is EXACTLY what you said.
Tell me how many jounins could take out Kakuzu or Pein.

Hell, even Asuma, Ebisu, Kurenai, Shikamaru could probably entrap or outwit him. it's definitely going to be problematic trying to kill him, but I have no doubts they'd be able to waste heaps of his time while he wears himself out.

You see Ebisu, Asuma and Kurenai defeating Naruto? Wits or not, Rasenshuriken ends Kurenai and Ebisu. You have to be realistic here.

naruto just walks into everything and wastes his chakra doing rasengan and kage bunshin, incurring huge damage to himself in the process.

as of right now, he's a master of damage dishing and absorption, that's all.

I agree with this totally. But he would still easily kill an average jounin. Im sorry but an average Jounin would die against Naruto.

If i were Kage, the only missions i'd dare hand to him would be those requiring flat-out firepower. nothing more.

I can relate to this also. As a standard ninja not including power he lacks SO MUCH. He doesnt seem like he could do espionage at all. He seems like a crap spy. He would also be crap with handling intelligence too. I get what you mean.

[Airgrimes]

fair enough analysis and reply

thumbs up

lol thanks.
But your right, Its made me realize that despite this being a manga about ninjas. Very few ninja's actually move ninja like besides each villages' ANBU.
Especially our main character. In the series though, I dont think its necessary to be a splendid ninja to be a Kage though>

Ei doesnt seem like he could hide, carry information and go unnoticed either.
I guess sometimes brute power is all you need.

[mattiaildivino]

it's a bullshit,imo. it's like comparing tobi and tobirama just because of their name,not to mention that senjutsu goes for what concerns japanese,outside Japan we have got different names (hermit mode in English). to be honest,I don't see how the natural energy can be connectd to that clan,of course they should be able to use mokuton,but that's a bit too much stretching.

[DooMinator]

To me, it doesn't matter at all how many jutsus Naruto can use. Somebody in the manga (can't remember who he was) said, a Kunai in the hands of a top-ninja might be more deadly than a jutsu I can't remember either at the hands of an amateur... Only one things does matter - being successful. And Naruto mostly was. So what's the big deal? He has the needed intelligence for THAT fight when it comes to fighting. That's all he needs.

[Kay3795]

But it's still there. Hell, the only reason it isn't as consistant as most people would like is because, more often than not, the character is used as a comic relief device or a way to show strength, or ability in other characters, especially recently. That is because of Kishimoto's initial portrayal of Naruto. So it ends up coming across as "believable." While at the same time he has "developed" Naruto enough as a character so that his intelligence doesn't seem Left-Field-ish. However, It comes across that way do to the fact that Naruto never seems to be able to stay intelligent for long. He always has to be saved by something or some circumstance, so his heroism comes off a little hollow.


But it's not like Kishimoto uses Naruto only. He's just used the most because we see him the most. Recent example, Sasuke. The last fully living Uchiha is far more intelligent, cunning and strategic than your average teenager. However, in this recent fight we barely see any of that. It's obvious that he was used to showcase his brothers greatness due to the fact that he needed rescuing from Kabuto on at least two occasions. Never really contributing anything major to the fight, following his brothers lead almost completely. We know Sasuke is better than that which is why it was more obvious.

This is the exactly the reasons tbh.

---------- Post added at 03:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:11 PM ----------

Minato isn't a Jounin level ninja, same with Jiraiya, Sasuke and Itachi ( and of every one you mentioned, imho only Yondaime and Itachi would effectively outsmart him and deal significant damage, Shika could too but he simply lack the means to inflict any harm on him ).
Not only that, but I can link you countless of examples where the "tank" Naruto outwitted an opponent, even in situations with and against ninjas smarter than him:

Zabuza fight; he single-handedly formulated a plan to free Kakashi taking into account his and Sasuke's strenghts.
Him, not Sasuke.

Kiba fight; outsmarted Kiba in making him hit Akamaru, KO'ing him. All the while with his chakra control screwed, and after 5 days of non-stop survival.

Neji fight; outsmarted him, a supposed genius superior even to Sasuke twice:
when he predicted Neji going for the one on the back of the mass of clones, and in the final moment of the match.

Gaara fight; before overpowering him, he hit Gaara in the weak spot of his Sand Armour thus immobilizing, feat that Sasuke, despite having way better speed couldn't do, not even having thinked about it.

Kabuto fight; despite being overly inferior to the opponent, he found a way to not only trap him, but also to complete the Rasengan.
In-fighting.

Kakuzu fight; outsmarted a 90+ years old ninja that survived against Hashirama and made short work of Kakashi + team 10 while being all tired from non-stop training.

Pein fight; manage to deal with the shared vision of 6 bodies of Pein, taking out 5 of them through strategy, same thing when he created 100+ clones and transformated them into rocks to the point where a Rin'negan user couldn't even see when he did it.

Third Raikage fight; despite going against a comparable opponent in speed with better reflexes, he managed to hit him with his stronger jutsu all by himself.
Not only that, but he discovered the Third's weakness and exploited it not using his stronger ability ( Chakra Mode + FRS ) but his most useful ( Sage Mode + Rasengan )

Tobi fight; devised a way to free the Bijuu all by himself, freeing them from Tobi's control. while combining Sage Mode and Chakra/Kyuubi Mode.

And also I find it funny that people believes that Naruto is the dumbest ninja there is when he was never outsmarted by anyone in a combat situation, bar Itachi's magic eye.
Oh, and the Nagato one, which is a grand total of 2 occasions in what, almost 20 battles?

And yet I don't see ppl complaining about Sasuke never using Raitons on Kabuto's water body, fully knowing the weakness of the jutsu and the non-lethalness of his own or the Uchiha bro falling to a B rank genjutsu or Itachi being cut in half by Kabuto or Raikage punching through black flames of doom or Danzou using a kunai on Susano'o or Tobi falling for Fu and Turune's combo or Sasuke going taijutsu against Bee despite being vastly inferior, needing a phoenix down twice or Asuma being outwitted by Hidan (!) when he impaled himself with his schyte or Sasuke falling for Oro's poison mist despite having researched on the snake and attacking him on his death-bed or Sasori being unable to deal with Sakura (!) or Kakashi going into water against a Ninja using Suiton, from the village famous for his Suiton jutsus and the whole shortcomings of the ones mentioned above.

But of course he is Naruto, he is stupid, haxed and an arrogant one trick pony ( which is partly true, I mean he is not the sharpest tool in the shed, is one of the most haxed and doesn't know a great number of jutsus, yet messages like the one above really makes my inner Naruto fanboy emerge ) and despite being so overly bad as a character and overpowered he is weak to the point that other balanced, skilled, and intelligent characters have to rely on jutsus that required enormous level of skill, training and intelligence to be used ( Amaterasu ) are not overpowered at all ( Itachi's Tsukuyomi or Totsuka Sword, Hashirama's Flower World ) or not overly costly in chakra ( City Buster Shinra Tensei & Chibaku Tensei ) to defeat him, even without taking into account his Bijuu Mode.

Below Jounin level, indeed

lol true say ^_^

[Dutchy]

Naruto's jutsu are cool n all, but the truth is: Naruto gets by with the help of his friends - they're his tactical advantage. He has yet to fight and beat an opponent unaided. Sasuke was the first and last, and Naruto lost that fight. Having said that, I think it's rudacris to say that an average jounin would kill him. I'm hard pressed to see how even Kakashi could kill him, given he can take Chidori to the chest and live. Nothing short of beheading or a 1-hit KO before he gets started would be enough.

Anyways, on topic... minority groups (i.e. the smaller clans of Konoha) tend to stick together, whereas the majority are more evenly distributed, so it makes sense to assume that the Senju clan have been assimilated into the village.

To me, it doesn't matter at all how many jutsus Naruto can use. Somebody in the manga (can't remember who he was) said, a Kunai in the hands of a top-ninja might be more deadly than a jutsu I can't remember either at the hands of an amateur... Only one things does matter - being successful. And Naruto mostly was. So what's the big deal? He has the needed intelligence for THAT fight when it comes to fighting. That's all he needs.

That would be Zetsu, during the Uchiha fight.