Gantz 364 Discussion/365 Prediction Thread

[THM Nindo]

Otherwise, remember that Kei still has the plot armor, whatever Nishi might attack Kei with, it won't kill him.

Well, since there are 2 Keis, I'd say that at least one of the Kei will die before the end of the manga.
So technically, until we know which one will die, neither have any plot armor.

This is why this fight is interesting.
I could totally see Kei1 dying to save Tae, since she can always hook up with Kei2 now that his girlfriend is dead!

[TheWanderer]

Guess that could make for an interesting twist, since Reika is dead the first kei could die and then the 2nd Kei will be together with Tae, which would be pretty odd but no farfetched for Oku to do. It's not exactly like this kei is really Kei kei he's the 2nd Kei and the copy Kei is the 3rd kei. Or to get even more technical the Kei that played in Gantz is the 2nd Kei, the one they revived is the 3rd Kei and then the one Reika made is the 4th Kei. Tae's been together with the 2nd and 3rd Kei. Then again maybe it's more like. Kei's memory was wiped so any memory of Tae was wiped out when he became the 1st Kei again. Then upon dying and being revived he turned back into the 2nd Kei because he was revived to a point in which he was still in gantz and not a point in which he was free. Then the one Reika "revived" is the the 2nd 2nd Kei with the same exact memories except he's with Reika rather then Tae.

To summarize basically there are three version's of kei.

We have the original kei that knows nothing of Gantz or his relationship with Tae but believed it to be amnesia since he did seem to lose a lot of his memories.

Then we have the 2nd Kei which was created after the 1st Kei had died the one that had the relationship with Tae and remembers everything about her.

Then we have a 2nd copy of the 2nd Kei which Reika created and now that's Reika is dead we have a lonely 2nd Kei.

So I can see the 1st 2nd kei dying and the story of love ending with the 2nd 2nd Kei consoling Tae since he's pretty much the same as the 1st 2nd it's just he's had a relationship with Reika since he didn't fit anywhere else being nothing more then a doppelganger of the "original" 2nd.

Makes you wonder how many chapters are left in this manga, it really feels like it could end this year maybe 5-10 more chapters based on it's current pace. We seem to be at a turning point in the war and the humans seem to have gained the upper hand. The only thing really left to explain is why were the human given the ability of gantz. My own thoughts on it is perhaps Gantz is a way of leveling the playing field by outfitting lesser advanced races with the means to fight back. Of course the only way to test this out would be to pit them off against aliens but doing this has negative effects. If you attack aliens that show no sign of aggression you become the villian in the scenario. However later one because of this bloodshed the aliens become more offensive in defending themselves up to the point where everyone can see them and they even kills "innocent" humans who have no means of fighting back.

It would appear the person that originally created the concept of gantz did so since they may have had their civilization destroyed by a more advanced race and they didn't want this to happen to anyone. They didn't believe it was fair that an advanced race should have the right to obliterate another race just because they don't have the ability to fight back. Then we have the vampires, seeing as what the machines do it's easy enough to understand why they are aligned with the aliens, they gut out all the blood from the naked humans and it's most likely given to the vampires. In return the vampires act an undercover agents because of what they are and do their best to assist the aliens in succeeding in their mission. Granted it is odd there has been no interference by them, you would think they would of had more impact on the story but perhaps their only mission was to do their best to eliminate all the gantzers they saw as threats. Even though the did succeed in killing Kei and that other guy, the gantz team was willing to revive Kei. The vamps themselves seem to have a low expectations for the humans assuming that given the choice they would ask for their own freedom before reviving a comrade back into the battlefield. So the aspect of killing someone should be enough. Then of course knowing that your memories would be wiped out would most likely encourage said person to pick that option since the stuff you see is something you really don't want to remember.

Think I went off topic lol. As for the next chapter I can see the original 2nd Kei dying since he'll most likely do anything to protect her, kill Nishi in the process and then run into the 2nd 2nd kei and have some awkward exchange before dying.

[grosbedo]

I could totally see Kei1 dying to save Tae, since she can always hook up with Kei2 now that his girlfriend is dead!

That would be an awful ending. What's the morale? Reika is dead and so is Kei1, so let's switch girlfriends/boyfriends?

That would be very disappointing and stupid, because it is clearly stated that Kei1 and Kei2 are now very different persons:
- Kei1 is driven by his love for Tae, he's not at all in this war since the very beginning.
- Kei2 is the leader of a Gantzer team, who is driven not by love but by being more powerful (or at least as powerful) as Kei1. His primary motivation is competition. Although now it may have changed a bit since the death of Reika, he may have switched to fighting to protect humans (or just the Gantzer team).

So anyway Kei1 is now much more powerful than any other Gantzer, Kei2 included, just because of his motive (à la Matrix...). And I don't think that Kei2 or Tae could accept to hook up, Kei2 being still in love with the memories of Reika, and Tae knowing that Kei2 is not Kei1 (does she even know that Kei2 exists?).

So killing Kei1 and leaving Kei2 alive would just not make any sense for Oku if we take into account these parameters that Oku himself changed and clearly stated.



/Off-topic: @TheWanderer: There's another theory that Gantz in fact is not a defendent organization, but rather provoked the aliens invaders to attack the Earth. There are several arguments to this theory:
- If it was a defendent organization, why would they not just revive a maximum of humans to retaliate to the invasion?
- Also, why not give a maximum of high-damage weapons and high-level armors to give a maximum chance of success?
- Why then did the organizators (at least the Asian one) want to kill the Gantzers in super-mech as they came near the central tower life supply of the Aliens mothership?
- Why Gantz would take random amateurs and even children, instead of high-profile men like soldiers, special forces, tacticians, etc..

I am not the author of this theory, but you can find it over the web on another forum.

[Shenduk]

Dammit. Dammit! I'm starting to hate Kei. Seriously, what the f***? His retarded girlfriend wants to save the people who freaking killed her mother and are killing other civilians and she says "Baw! Kurono, stop!" and he goes "Yes, ma'am!". Wtf?!

Kei is now a traitor of his species because some stupid woman started blabbering nonsense about welcoming a murderer lot of strangers on their land. Fuck the docile exceptions, the aliens are dangerous and survival of your own kind comes first! Not only does she has this Deus Ex Machina Plot Armor, she ruined many chapters with her shouts and now ruins the original Kurono, one my previouly favorite characters.

Nishi, please, have killed her! Oh, nevermind, I forgot, she's a freaking invencible boring looking girl. F*** you, Hiroya Oku, for cursing us with Tae!

PS: No wonder Kurono's eyes look retarded when he agrees with Tae in the previous chapter:

[GAT-X252]

Jesus Christ boy...Kurono is not doing it for Tae, he is doing it for Fra. He believes there is another way to stop this war without mass genocide of an entire civilization.

If he really knows what he is doing then good, i support his actions. The giants are pretty much done for anyway, they seem to be escaping.

Also, how can you be so angry at a fictional character? if there is someone to hate (i don't) it's the writer...this is the best he could do with the story and it's horrible. I don't hate Kurono either, but i couldn't stand him until he met Tae.

[grosbedo]

@GAT-X252: True and true.

----

Some more notes on Oku and Gantz:

If you're looking for a grandiose, epic ending gunfight with an epic win, I don't think that will ever happen. First because it never happened in Gantz, and it's not the writing style of the author.

Anyway, I expect some grandiose ending, at least visually, even if scenaristically it can be lame. Oku loves hollywood camera works, and he already stated that his main goal with Gantz is to produce a similar work, but in a manga. So the ending will certainly be epic visually, but maybe not scenaristically, and clearly it won't be a win.

Also, I think Oku will try to put in some lame morale to raise up a bit the scenario in a lame attempt to provide an intelligent ending.

But don't expect too much from Oku. Gantz could have been a masterpiece both visually and scenaristically, but Oku doesn't seem to be very highly educated so he can't do more than what you see in Hollywood. Works great visually, but not scenaristically. He's falling in the very pits of what he's trying to mimic.

If you want a great story with a great ending and with realistic superheroes, you could take a look over "Junk - Record of the last hero" which is very very smart (could be used in school, literally), or "Variante", or of course City Hunter and Angel Heart.

However, let's respect Oku's work, because as you very well know, longer is the story, lamer it is (except City Hunter, please cite me one counter-example of a manga composed of more than 200 chapters that has a consistent, mature and smart story).

Gantz is a very respectable piece of work, and will stay in memories for a long time, whatever the ending is.

[kliff2004]

Kei understands more than anyone else that these aliens don't deserve to die.

Does anyone know originally what Kei said in japanese? was it "wakata" which if I remember correctly is "I understand"

It would have been nicer if he sad it with a little more passion and Oku should have put in the face's of the innocent aliens Kei had killed in the past and regrets.

That would have been a better way, and I think you guys would have been more happy with that.

Maybe Kei could have went through a nice monologue of all that he's experienced in gantz, and finally tell Tae everything.

This is a big decision and the problem I have with it is how simple, oku made the decision seem.

But gantz just seems to be all about visuals now, and deep thought provoking context has taken the back seat.

Its funny how we write responses about a manga that contain 100X more words in them than Oku puts in an entire issue.

This fight is hilariously one sided by the way >__>

Kei is basically just wiping the floor with Nishi XDDDD

[Gantzter127]

Dammit. Dammit! I'm starting to hate Kei. Seriously, what the f***? His retarded girlfriend wants to save the people who freaking killed her mother and are killing other civilians and she says "Baw! Kurono, stop!" and he goes "Yes, ma'am!". Wtf?!

Kei is now a traitor of his species because some stupid woman started blabbering nonsense about welcoming a murderer lot of strangers on their land. Fuck the docile exceptions, the aliens are dangerous and survival of your own kind comes first! Not only does she has this Deus Ex Machina Plot Armor, she ruined many chapters with her shouts and now ruins the original Kurono, one my previouly favorite characters.

Nishi, please, have killed her! Oh, nevermind, I forgot, she's a freaking invencible boring looking girl. F*** you, Hiroya Oku, for cursing us with Tae!

PS: No wonder Kurono's eyes look retarded when he agrees with Tae in the previous chapter:

He never enjoyed the company of Human beings to begin with.
He is an asshole "who don't give a fuck about no one" That's his style, the only reason the aliens have come to earth is because they've had their eyes on it for a while like every other innocent alien convict that has been slaughtered by the Gantz teams throughout the world. The aliens are like us Human beings, some are innocent, some are evil and deserve to die. Like for example; the alien children crying over their dead mother and Sakurai saved them, it's like a soldier in the war and he has faced two children crying over their dead mother, he helps them get to safety.

Oku shows us the way of human beings with the aliens, what will we do in 500-1000 years time without fuel, oil etc. We could go out and find another planet inhabited by smaller creatures, kill them and take the juice. We human beings are like them so that's why Kurono has agreed with Tae by saving their race. The people may not agree with the killing of the smaller creatures, but the higher ups do, because they want moneys and resources.

[grosbedo]

Oku shows us the way of human beings with the aliens, what will we do in 500-1000 years time without fuel, oil etc. We could go out and find another planet inhabited by smaller creatures, kill them and take the juice.

No I don't think this picture should be taken literally, this looks like a metaphore for humanity and foreigners, just like robots were metaphors for humans slavery.

[Damura]

Gantz is a very respectable piece of work, and will stay in memories for a long time, whatever the ending is.

As wasted potential, maybe. Kind of reminds me how Lost went downhill all of a sudden the moment people started realising that that shit was going nowhere.

[dake360]

Just reread some old chapters and...

Man, I didn't remember how much of an asshole Nishi is.

http://www.batoto.net/read/_/94792/g...by_whatever/13

Just look at that smug look on his face.

I'm starting to think Kei should have expected Nishi to pull something like this.

Nishi was an asshole to everyone (except Izumi & that one girl from his class) .

HELL Nishi was the first person(shown) to use a gantz weapon on a human.

[EliteBeatAgents]

Also, how can you be so angry at a fictional character?

it's actually simple. Their actions, that's the whole point of being a writer/comic writer. It's because they're human we can easily relate to the person or judge them for their actions. I can bring up characters where people showed great rage towards like Shou Tucker, or like ozymandias. Although Oku didn't mean to have tae be hated so much here I can understand why people dislike her.

---------- Post added at 01:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 PM ----------

@Damura
finally someone said it.

[grosbedo]

As wasted potential, maybe. Kind of reminds me how Lost went downhill all of a sudden the moment people started realising that that shit was going nowhere.

Gantz is probably heading nowhere at all (even furthermore since the futile clarification of the Gantz's origins), but the universe it spawned is quite rich and will certainly inspire other artists and works.

[Forever Rain]

As wasted potential, maybe. Kind of reminds me how Lost went downhill all of a sudden the moment people started realising that that shit was going nowhere.

Um...hmm, if you mean wasted potential as a blank slate can become anything I can agree but what I think you're really trying to say is that the manga isn't what YOU wanted it to be. If you remember all those chapters of Gantz you would realize there never was a underlying plot, the story only consisted of a random scenario to showcase character development and drama. I didn't mind that and it kept me going but I think it's a false assumption to say that the manga was leading up to great things when the main story was only recently relatively created.

Just reread some old chapters and...

Man, I didn't remember how much of an asshole Nishi is.

http://www.batoto.net/read/_/94792/g...by_whatever/13

Just look at that smug look on his face.

I'm starting to think Kei should have expected Nishi to pull something like this.

Nishi was an asshole to everyone (except Izumi & that one girl from his class) .

HELL Nishi was the first person(shown) to use a gantz weapon on a human.

lol, you know that has to be one of my favorite Nishi moments too. I love how they're all begging and crying on the ground like losers and he just ignores him.

[Damura]

Um...hmm, if you mean wasted potential as a blank slate can become anything I can agree but what I think you're really trying to say is that the manga isn't what YOU wanted it to be. If you remember all those chapters of Gantz you would realize there never was a underlying plot, the story only consisted of a random scenario to showcase character development and drama. I didn't mind that and it kept me going but I think it's a false assumption to say that the manga was leading up to great things when the main story was only recently relatively created.

No, there was always the underlying question of what is Gantz? Throughout the manga Oku kept throwing out hints that we might get an answer. We had Nishi's mysterious history and relationship with Gantz (as well as all this knowledge he seemed to have). Later we had Izumi, another Gantzer from the past who seemed to know a lot (and with heaps of potential due to his fantastic, temporary memory loss). Then we find out the aliens are pretty intelligent and that many have set up there own communities on Earth (vampires, Oni). We are led to wonder what the deal is with the vampires. They're enemies of Gantz but they can't be aliens because Akira was recruited. Eventually everything leads up to this big Katastrophe timer, world war, country against country, Gantz vs. Gantz etc.

But fuck it. Forget all of that. The main attraction has always been the main characters and their fight for survival. They used to have plots that meant something and were satisfying on their own merit. Now all of a sudden we have deus ex machina/plot armour through the fucking roof while logic and reason are often ignored in order to set up a scene or quicken the plot.