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View Poll Results: In the end, I want Kabuto to ...

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  • Die

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  • Defeat Sasuke and Itachi

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  • Redeem himself and meet up with his orphan brother

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  • ...well, I actually don't care what happens to him.

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Thread: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 587 When it turns 9 o'clock

  1. #1
    Reviewer 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member blackjack612's Avatar
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    Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 587 When it turns 9 o'clock



    "I'm jealous that you have a place to return to."
    Nameless, Low-ranking Ninja

    Welcome all to this week's Naruto review and boy was there a lot of content packed into this chapter. Character development, answers, a chance at redemption, there's so much to cover. First, let's go over last review's poll. I asked what you thought about Izanami. An almost equal number of people though it was unimpressive, overpowered, or simply ok. Yet with twice as many votes as any of those individual choices, the greater number of you were impressed by the technique. That's how I voted though I was somewhat on the fence at the time. However, after reading this week's chapter, I am firmly in the impressed camp. Izanami has been made into more than a game-winning ability. It serves a larger purpose in the context of the Uchiha clan, but I'm getting ahead of myself. Now for the chapter review...


    Naruto 587 When it turns 9 o'clock
    The images in this review are credited to Mangastream.



    Itachi clears up any lingering mysteries surrounding Izanami in the opening pages of the chapter by describing the mechanics of the technique as well as explaining its original purpose. Izanami is a dojutsu (eye-technique) that bypasses vision to target all of one's senses. To activate it, the caster must begin a chain of actions himself and later repeat as closely as possible the initial action to create a loop of illusions. The caster records the sensations of the moments between those identical actions, which in this case is Itachi being stabbed by Kabuto, and layers these sensations upon the illusion trapping the victim in an endless loop of repetition.

    ...well, not quite. It isn't an endless loop and the victim isn't trapped. As Itachi mentioned chapters ago, Izanami is a companion jutsu to Izanagi. Izanagi allows the caster to 'alter' destiny by negating and creating reality. What the illusions the user wishes to make real become real and what realities (like death) the user wishes to make illusions become illusions. It is probably the most powerful technique in the series and on it's own that wouldn't be a problem. However, there are multiple Uchiha and there have been points in their history where more than one of them wielded this technique. It's not hard to imagine that arrogance and selfishness that ability breeds, or how difficult it would be to stop someone who could use it.

    That's where Izanami comes in. It 'decides' destiny by trapping the victim in a genjutsu that can only be escaped if the victim willingly chooses to break the cycle of actions that they're engaged in during the illusion. Izanagi users will remain trapped until they quit attempting to 'alter' destiny towards their own ends. Kabuto will remain trapped while he attempts to best Itachi. This is also why Izanami is forbidden. It's not useful for battle. All Kabuto needs to do to escape is accept his limitations and stop relying on others' abilities. In the same way that Izanami was used to save Uchiha from the arrogance of Izanagi, Itachi wishes to save Kabuto too.




    Sasuke doesn't understand why his brother would go to such lengths to help out Kabuto. As it happens, Itachi was being genuine when he earlier noted the similarities between Kabuto and himself. Itachi ignored his own limitations and blindly believed in his, and only his, abilities. Likewise, Kabuto believes that other's abilities are his own and he defines himself as an aggregate of many people. Neither Kabuto nor Itachi are without blame for their crimes. Yet both are also victims of chance, products of the shinobi institution whose fates were determined by the state of the world.

    Itachi was complicit in genocide, consorted with war criminals, and essentially considered enslaving his brother to his idea of what his brother should want before he came to the realization after his death that there were limits to he could do. Itachi wants to help Kabuto realize this himself. It's a very shonen trope. No man's an island. You have to build and rely on a community in order to survive in the world. Itachi wants to do the same for Sasuke who refuses to see his brother's flaws and who also places faith in his abilities to the exclusion of all others.




    The real question is whether Kabuto will accept Itachi's help? From his flashbacks, it's obvious that Kabuto wants desperately to be redeemed, to be acknowledged. Yet everyone who's acknowledge him has ended up dead. Trapped within Izanami, Kabuto refuses to accept defeat, though he seems to realize his situation and is searching frantically for an answer to who he is and what he desires. If only he knew that somewhere out on the battlefields of war, one of his adopted/orphaned brothers was still waiting for him to return to the orphanage.

    Just as last chapter ended on the question of how Izanami works, this chapter ends on the question of how Itachi will stop Edo Tensei. Will it be through genjutsu while Kabuto's trapped in that loop? And can it even be ended by anyone other than Kabuto?





    Great art this chapter all around. The landscapes were detailed as ever. The action was really well illustrated and easy to follow. Kishimoto's eye for composition was on fire, especially when Kishimoto rehashed familiar scenes of Kabuto from new angles. My favorite of those is a tie between Kabuto standing next to a summoned Madara in front of Tobi and the mexican standoff between the Sannin.

    But the highlight of the chapter has to be the strange, wonderful, and ominous depiction of the Uchiha clan abusing its abilities. So much about that scene is creepy: the silhouettes of two armies facing each other, the lone messianic-like figure with arms outstretched over fallen foes, the eyes in the sky, the burning Uchiha logo. It's brutal imagery that gives the sense that it takes place in a far more uncivilized time.




    Last chapter I gave a tentative rating of 4 out of 5 instead of a full 5 only because I felt that the story was too incomplete to properly judge the merits of Izanami. The risk of reviewing serialized art is that what we're critiquing isn't a complete product. They serve more as real-time updates of what we're feeling than as definitive arguments for a works merits.

    This is all to say that if asked, you'd find me highly satisfied by how this fight, Kabuto's overall story, and Itachi's overall story played out. The conclusion to all this my dim or brighten my appreciation for these elements, but in the moment I was thoroughly entertained.

    Did Kishimoto deliver typically polished dialogue, story, and art? Yes. What's impressive is that he did all that and had moments of growth for all the characters and hit his pet themes hard and successfully. What's most impressive is that even during all this, I didn't end the chapter wanting to see more action or delve deeper into the history of the Narutoverse. I ended it worried that maybe Kabuto wouldn't see a silver (or even gray) lining. It should come as no surprise that I'm giving Naruto 587 a ...


    5 out of 5.

    Predictions


    Well, it seems my prediction about Itachi using that infinite loop as a bargaining chip/torture against Kabuto won't be happening. What I do think and hope happens is that Itachi uses genjutsu on Kabuto only to learn he can't end Edo Tensei in this way followed by Kabuto breaking out of Izanami and, with new found modesty, recognizes his limitations, accepts Itachi's acknowledgement, and ends Edo Tensei himself. It'd be nice for one of the villains to get some kind of redemption and Kabuto deserves it more than most.

    Well, that's it for the chapter review. What did you guys think? Did you walk away more invested in Kabuto? Is he even worthy of redemption? And what about Sasuke? Surely that guy is at a pivotal moment right now, having seen in Kabuto the perils of defining himself through Itachi.

    One Line Reviews
    • Tower of God S02 Ch16 gives us more of what we want: Viole/Baam taking names and kicking ass, developing intrigue, and weird character humor. A solid chapter, but it still feels like S.I.U. is setting the table for something larger and I'm ready to see something monumental happen.
    • One Piece 668 really accelerates the plot by revealing some of Trafalgar Law's motivations and setting ambitious goals for the Straw Hats.
    • After a strong week of releases, it was hard to pick a favorite, but Bleach 493 just barely edges out the competition with a chapter in which Kirge showcased a truly terrifying ability. I'm beginning to like Bleach's last arc more and more. It feels as though the series is recapturing some of the tension and excitement it excelled so well at during the Soul Society arc.

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  3. #2
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Socrates's Avatar
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 587 When it turns 9 o'clock

    Yup, good review, i had the same thoughts overall. Very good chapter and very good explanation.

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    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 587 When it turns 9 o'clock

    good job,Black . in the plot analysis,I've to admit that there's something which misses: itachi adivsed sasuke that he had prepared a technique,Koto Amatsukami to control him. although,that's seems nothing,it may bring some questions in the near future,or maybe sasuke's interest towards this illusion of shisui's. it's something like itachi's sentence about nagato who tracked kabuto's chakra

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member flameorigin's Avatar
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 587 When it turns 9 o'clock

    Good review!

    But what about what happened in the anime recently (last episode)? I don't remember if this happened in the Manga but Kabuto told Madara EXACTLY how to stop Edo - as a bargaining chip for trust.

    Ironically, he said Sharingan would be the only thing to stop it...he would have to fall under the influence and make the ninja signs horse, tiger, chicken in the order (I'm wrong about what the actual signs are but you get the point)
    Writer or Adventurer? Check. http://www.writerzweb.com

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    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 587 When it turns 9 o'clock

    Quote Originally Posted by flameorigin View Post
    Good review!

    But what about what happened in the anime recently (last episode)? I don't remember if this happened in the Manga but Kabuto told Madara EXACTLY how to stop Edo - as a bargaining chip for trust.

    Ironically, he said Sharingan would be the only thing to stop it...he would have to fall under the influence and make the ninja signs horse, tiger, chicken in the order (I'm wrong about what the actual signs are but you get the point)
    yes it was in the manga too,here you are: http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/521/3

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member flameorigin's Avatar
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 587 When it turns 9 o'clock

    As I read through that chapter Kabuto mentions 'as long as I have edo and that other technique' I'm invincible. Maybe he's just talking about Sage power? But I wouldn't exactly call that a technique...I reckon it's something more powerful.
    Writer or Adventurer? Check. http://www.writerzweb.com

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    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 587 When it turns 9 o'clock

    Quote Originally Posted by flameorigin View Post
    As I read through that chapter Kabuto mentions 'as long as I have edo and that other technique' I'm invincible. Maybe he's just talking about Sage power? But I wouldn't exactly call that a technique...I reckon it's something more powerful.
    yeah,he was talking about the senjutsu,imo. especially since,by the sentence "the sage's secrets",he should refer to the real madara.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 587 When it turns 9 o'clock

    You know i really don't see the point if Izanami. So what a Uchiha could reverse whatever for "the briefest of moments". So you need to kill him 2x times(a few seconds later). Big deal... That dude has now -1 sharingan in his head.

    So some dude surviving for some seconds more then normal and losing 1 eye would make one(Uchiha) all the things Itachi said in this chapter and to combat that you would need Izanami that AGAIN makes you lose 1 eye? I would just summon Susano and then laugh my ass off when that dude has only 1 eye left.

    This chapter made as much sense to me as money falling from the sky. Now ignoring that Izanami crep i really liked the chapter but again ignoring why they created Izanami as there would be no need for Izanami to get around Izanagi. No need in hell. Also comsidering what you would sacrifice and what you get(a few more seconds to live) nobody would be a prideful idiot... Also how many would even use it? Bleah...

    I also find Izanami out of caracter for the Uchiha, its more like a Senju thing if you ask me...
    Last edited by xXan; May 28, 2012 at 08:36 AM.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member apathism's Avatar
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 587 When it turns 9 o'clock

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    You know i really don't see the point if Izanami. So what a Uchiha could reverse whatever for "the briefest of moments". So you need to kill him 2x times(a few seconds later). Big deal... That dude has now -1 sharingan in his head.

    So some dude surviving for some seconds more then normal and losing 1 eye would make one(Uchiha) all the things Itachi said in this chapter and to combat that you would need Izanami that AGAIN makes you lose 1 eye? I would just summon Susano and then laugh my ass off when that dude has only 1 eye left.

    This chapter made as much sense to me as money falling from the sky. Now ignoring that Izanami crep i really liked the chapter but again ignoring why they created Izanami as there would be no need for Izanami to get around Izanagi. No need in hell. Also comsidering what you would sacrifice and what you get(a few more seconds to live) nobody would be a prideful idiot... Also how many would even use it? Bleah...

    I also find Izanami out of caracter for the Uchiha, its more like a Senju thing if you ask me...
    I dunno, it seems pretty Uchiha to me. The way Itachi is using it is nice, but the basic gist of the technique is:

    "Oh, you think you are so cool to manipulate reality? *SMACK*"

    That's like Itachi vs Deidara's flashback or Sasuke vs Deidara:

    "Oh, you think you are so cool to have explosions? *SMACK*"

    Total Uchiha attitude through and through.

    Kage-Baka No Jutsu!

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    MH Senpai MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 587 When it turns 9 o'clock

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    You know i really don't see the point if Izanami. So what a Uchiha could reverse whatever for "the briefest of moments". So you need to kill him 2x times(a few seconds later). Big deal... That dude has now -1 sharingan in his head.

    So some dude surviving for some seconds more then normal and losing 1 eye would make one(Uchiha) all the things Itachi said in this chapter and to combat that you would need Izanami that AGAIN makes you lose 1 eye? I would just summon Susano and then laugh my ass off when that dude has only 1 eye left.

    This chapter made as much sense to me as money falling from the sky. Now ignoring that Izanami crep i really liked the chapter but again ignoring why they created Izanami as there would be no need for Izanami to get around Izanagi. No need in hell. Also comsidering what you would sacrifice and what you get(a few more seconds to live) nobody would be a prideful idiot... Also how many would even use it? Bleah...

    I also find Izanami out of caracter for the Uchiha, its more like a Senju thing if you ask me...
    Don't forget, Izanagi didn't just make the user's death into an illusion, it also allowed them to make their attack into reality. As Itachi mentioned this chapter, Izanagi was mainly used during important battles where failure wasn't an option. So it likely Izanagi was also used to ensure the success of key strikes. Now given that the majority of Uchiha who had the Sharingan wold have been quite skilled, and the rarity of strong defensive techniques, the idea of a strong surefire attack seems like it would cause plenty of problems, especially when the lost of an eye would have only been a short term issue.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 587 When it turns 9 o'clock

    @Rikudou King

    I don't even belive you get to activate Izanami before Izanagi's existence ends... Perhaps if that dude activates the other eye to... You first need to notice the user has Izanagi active and that lasts for the "briefest of moments". Before you do the hole print screen and then use it on the enemy Izanagi would already end.

    Also what attacks was Izanagi able to make into a reality? If we go from what Danzou showed... Hell even Tobi. They where teleporting and using normal attacks or even a pipe lol.

    In essence if you had Susano you could jsut pop that up for a few seconds and be done with it. I still don't see how Izanami would help you. As i said Izanagi last for some seconds, before you use Izanami the hole thing is probably over already.

    Whatever they can do for those few seconds it would be way more beneficial to you to try to survive and then you just about won that fight. If you have Susano its not even a problem. Why use an eye to trap somene that has 1-2 seconds left on Izanagi anyway?

    @apathism

    Not the way Itachi put it:

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/587/3
    It was created to punish and SAVE the users of Izanagi.

    More here about arogance:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/587/4

    Its a tech created to SAVE other Izanagi users:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/587/5

    Yeah Senju much?

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 587 When it turns 9 o'clock

    Having seen to which amount Kabuto makes his plans, I do not believe that he truly told Tobi how to end this. I believe this is a trap on Kabuto's part.

    One possible scenario I can see, is that making the ninja signs "horse, tiger, chicken", will summon Madara to his position.

    So Itachi "reads Kabuto's mind" and sees what Kabuto told Madara. Then, when Itachi makes Kabuto perform the seals, Madara gets summoned into the cave.

    The Kages will still have the clones to fight off, and either Sasuke will have to take on Madara by himself (because Itachi needs to control Kabuto) OR Itachi+Sasuke take on Madara together.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member apathism's Avatar
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 587 When it turns 9 o'clock

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    @Rikudou King

    I don't even belive you get to activate Izanami before Izanagi's existence ends... Perhaps if that dude activates the other eye to... You first need to notice the user has Izanagi active and that lasts for the "briefest of moments". Before you do the hole print screen and then use it on the enemy Izanagi would already end.

    Also what attacks was Izanagi able to make into a reality? If we go from what Danzou showed... Hell even Tobi. They where teleporting and using normal attacks or even a pipe lol.

    In essence if you had Susano you could jsut pop that up for a few seconds and be done with it. I still don't see how Izanami would help you. As i said Izanagi last for some seconds, before you use Izanami the hole thing is probably over already.

    Whatever they can do for those few seconds it would be way more beneficial to you to try to survive and then you just about won that fight. If you have Susano its not even a problem. Why use an eye to trap somene that has 1-2 seconds left on Izanagi anyway?

    @apathism

    Not the way Itachi put it:

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/587/3
    It was created to punish and SAVE the users of Izanagi.

    More here about arogance:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/587/4

    Its a tech created to SAVE other Izanagi users:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/587/5

    Yeah Senju much?
    Hmmm, good point!

    Though it is worth noting that Izanagi doesn't just last 'a few seconds'-- as stated in Sasuke vs Danzou, the duration of the Izanagi depends on the person who is using it, Danzou's could only last a few seconds because he wasn't Uchiha and had to use Hashirama's chakra to use it. Its possible a highly skilled Uchiha could use Izanagi for *much* longer than what we have seen so far-- making Izanami an important tool for facing Izanagi.

    ... Also, I just noticed that Izanagi and Izanami are not labelled as misspellings in Firefox's spellchecker. Interesting.

    Kage-Baka No Jutsu!

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 587 When it turns 9 o'clock

    @apathism

    No, you got it wrong. Normal Uchiha (ALL OF THEM) had only the "briefest of moments". Its stated by Tobi himself. Also Tobi explained that Danzou could extend his duration more then normal Uchiha because he had Oro experiment on that arm with Senju DNA. Danzou could do it MORE then Uchiha. You need to read that chapter again. Tobi that has Senju DNA and is a born Uchiha(probably) can use it even more.
    You need SENJU DNA to use that move for a longer time then for "briefest of moments".

    So in essence:
    1-Normal Uchiha could do it only for the briefest of moments aka seconds.
    2-Danzou could do it (with his arm and senju DNA) for 60 seconds.
    3-Tobi the best one can use it for 5 to 10 minutes. The exact time is debateble. It could be 5 or 10 minutes. But that is because Tobi is not only a Uchiha but also has Senju DNA. Of course its still up for question if Tobi is really a Uchiha but he has Uchiha DNA for sure and sharingan mastery.
    Last edited by xXan; May 29, 2012 at 02:29 AM.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Blackjack612 Reviews Naruto 587 When it turns 9 o'clock

    If Madara is summoned to sasuke and itachi I don't thnk Madara would willingly fight them. He is such a proud uchiha that if forced to face the brothers he wouldn't based solely on the "I don't fight my own kind" mentality. Sasuke mentioned before he didn't even know who Madara was but itachi for sure would know him immediately. As such Kabuto would still need to be in complete control to manipulate Madara. I think a more possible meet is between Madara and Tobi, they're connected in some way so them getting together is more likely in my opinion. Naruto seems to be handling Tobi fine on his own so I think the final battle will be naruto and sasuke versus Madara. I say they team up because especially now it's clear sasuke will have a change of heart. Even after seeing his brother again and getting some closure he'll still have that revenge in his heart because that's all he knows. He still holds a grudge against Konoha for making itachi suffer as he did. But naruto of course will change him for good because he's the main character.

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