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Translations: Bleach 595 (2)
Lol what? For one, it is the Yips. Secondly, it is the fact that Sanada DIDN'T let it walk all over him that made him break out of it. Atobe would have lost 7-0 to Yukimura.Quote:
Atobe beating Sanada 7-0 is in the realm of "will never happen." Sanada has been crushing Atobe since before PoT1. Did you forget Atobe could do nothing against "Zan" until the Nationals? Atobe has been outclassed for years (specifically with Sanada), and there were no tiebreaks. Let's be real.Quote:
Pl reread my post. I said Atobe beating Sanada 7-0 is more likely than Sanada beating Atobe 7-0. I didn't say either scenario was likely. I base this off the fact that Atobe has a knack for getting matches to a tiebreaker.
I think the writers recognize that Atobe will never get bageled or breadsticked...thats why they had Irie sandbag when playing Atobe. Or gave Tezuka an injury, etc.
So the question is open...how good is Atobe?
Atobe's 2 part smashes still last from Regionals til now. Effectively. So they arent really ephemeral as you say.
Drive B was returned coz it has a clear path for anyone that has excellent technique.
Though Atobe handled it, Drive D got the better of Atobe.
Drive B + Doubled Return went past Yukimura.
(Yukimura spat out Cool Drive, Drive A, Entaku Shot, Kamikakushi and others but Drive B still worked so your wrong about it being ephemeral).
Sanada's knack for clawing his way to victory was strong too. Just the fact he survived the
Yips shows his knack is as strong as Ryoma's. Ryoma is someone who did better than Atobe for clawing their way to victory.
Personality does not help you when an opponent is outright better than you.
How can Atobe's personality return Rai?? Just tell us!
He lost that scoreline coz Konomi likely wanted readers to remember for SPoT that Ryoma and Yukimura were the top of the Middle School Tennis world.) He states this in Pair Puri Vol5 which happens when the losers return from the mountains. He wanted to underline Yuki's strength.
He makes it clear that Tezuka and Sanada got new techniques to return the level where Yukimura and Ryoma were at. With Tezuka being boosted even higher by having him crush Fuji.
So he had Tokugawa take out Ryoma in what was probably not a full match but just Tokugawa pounding Ryoma, Oni doing the same to Kintaro and also crushing Momoshiro and Irie stamping out Atobe. With Tanegashima looking unphased at TMnK.
Just Konomi letting us know who was fodder and who wasnt. (Which I saw these obvious signs at the time lol).
How does tenacity beat Rai + Black Aura? Yukimura showed great tenacity even shutting down Samurai Drive while Ryoma was in TMnK. Yet he didnt win.
Im sorry but right now in this series, Atobe could have lost RIGHT NOW.
But Ochi allowed the point that Kabaji won( the THIRD player in this DOUBLES match) to count.
Ochi could have won. But for kindness he let Atobe have a lifeline. so basically Atobe has already lost to Ochi and Mouri who havent even broken a sweat.
Atobe's tenacity did nothing for him. Your point is invalid.
I see only a few MSers with a chance of beating them. (Tezuka, Yuki and Ryoma of course).
Atobe was out-classed, and Irie ALLOWED it to go tie-break which Tanegashima showed us.
Irie pretended his arm hurt. His arm was fine. Gosh I love Tanegashima and Irie. Tanegashima must have great Insight or something man. Look forward to his match with whoever.
Im sorry but as tenacious as Atobe is, Sanada is just as tenacious.
So as long as Atobe cant return Zan without World of Ice and AK which TIRES HIM OUT, and Sanada uses Rai which tires him out too AND has Black Aura to spare,
Sanada > Atobe. Without a doubt.
But Atobe is STILL amazing. Im not doubting that.
---------- Post added at 09:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 AM ----------
Listen he is Akutsu group. Why?
Akutsu can hit any type of shot from any body position. So as long as the ball is remotely near him, he can hit an offensive shot. So he doesnt really have a dead angle. So AK and World of Ice will only work a certain percentage of the time. Akutsu can also hit 5 at a time.
Tooyama will likely overpower Atobe. Then he can also hit 5 at a time. Also in that tier.
Niou is in that tier. In Singles I dont see how Atobe can stop ZSS.
Atobe's dangerous because of that, he can evolve faster than others and specially in hard matches against strong opponents and during crucial points.
He's just like Echizen, he evolves and quickly puts up a fight. Maybe he could reach Yukimura's level but that should happen by the end of Shin. I don't know how, but if he got against Irie a technique like AK that is an absolute technique, if he gets something better, he would be almost unbeteable.
Atobe's pretty much stronger than say, Fuji or Shiraishi. Gotta remember, his character is often that of an underdog. The underdog will always come out on top.
Gotta say, there are two styles of thinking on this board. There are people who think solely in terms of techniques...and those that think in terms of characterization.
Atobe will always be an underdog...while Rai is just one of many techniques in the mangaka.
Atobe has great persistence. SO does Sanada. SO does Fuji. SO does Ryoma, Kaidoh, Momoshiro, Kawamura, Kabaji, Krauser, Tezuka, Yukimura showed great persistence being able to rally with TMnK, Shishido/Ootori pair, like seriously. Atobe aint the only guy who claws his way to victory.
Get over your beloved Atobe. He is amazing. Its just that its clear as day that he cannot beat Sanada with what he has at this moment in time.
You yourself have FAILED to explain how Rai let alone Black Aura can be contained by Atobe.
And yeah, he is better than Fuji and Shiraishi.
Let me know if you want to get into the mathematics...?
That's what Konomi has shown us. However, Atobe improves quickly, so he could at least put up a fight, but still lose.
That injury was NO Tezuka injury their, or a Momoshiro suffering from Oni style injury. It was a minor knock.
We dont need math. Can Atobe return Rai? Dont divert from this. Make it simple. Your beloved Atobe CANNOT return Rai.
Is Atobe the ONLY character who can claw his way to victory? HELL NO. Many characters in the series have shown their splendid will to win.
Shiraishi VS Fuji, Tezuka VS Atobe, your beloved Atobe only JUST edged past a heavily injured Tezuka.
Atobe was in a better condition during the WHOLE Irie match than when Tezuka faced Atobe.
Let me know if you want to get into the facts.
You think just Atobe improved quickly? Akutsu can hit 5 balls at a time, Momoshiro can hit BJK, Ryoma dont get me started, Kintaro can use mass clones and hit 6 balls(According to the anime), Sanada can hit 5 at a time, Yukimura's Yips has improved, Niou's abilities have greatly lifted, Kawamura can use 180 Degree's of Hadoukyuu.
Improvement is all around Atobe. Not just him. You just have to tell us how Atobe overcomes Rai.
Mmm, Why Atobe can't just do the same than yuki and use the handle of the racket? In fact, at least in the anime (I don't remember in the manga) he uses viking horn.
Also for what is worth, Atobe made a better fight to ryoma than both Sanada and yuki. I know that Sanada didn't used Rai in (Atobe didn't have atobe kingdom by then ). And that yuki stomped before PoP. (in fact we have no evidence yet that Ryoma without pop can beat yuki. And that is a relevant thing because it's possible that pop is not voluntary, or at least means that yuki may be as good or better than tokugawa)
People Keep downgrading Atobe, but I know that Atobe did put a better fight against ryoma, than basically anyone in the manga, at least in an official match. And I also know that yuki said that in atobe vs sanada, atobe would win that match (however later stated that only him could beat sanada)
My position is that Sanada would win but Atobe is inmediatly below Sanada, and that is, and i think people are downgrading him more than that. Of course, I would love a full match of Sanada vs Atobe. But probably will never happen because konomi do not want to make sad any fanbase.
Last edited by Fosprey; May 31, 2012 at 05:32 PM.
Let's just agree to disagree but injured or not FACT is Tezuka lost to Atobe and Sanada was on his way to losing before Yukimura stopped the match. Just because he had Rai hidden doesn't mean anything it's only your assumption. THAT'S WHY THEY PLAY GAMES ON THE COURT OR FIELDS AND NOT ON PAPER!
I feel like nobody here watches sports.
---------- Post added at 06:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:25 PM ----------
I know you will disagree with me so we will agree to disagree.
I already made the argument that Atobe has been CONSISTENTLY LOSING to Sanada for years. It took him how many years to overcome Zan, and you're saying "Go dust yourself off and go beat the most overpowered technique in the series?" Let's be rational. You can argue based on "what ifs" all you want, but the majority of us are arguing based upon the actual canon.
If Atobe and Sanada were to play a serious match. Atobe would end up countering Rai and Sanada would counter Atobe Kingdom. This is an empirical and statistical observation given past matches of major characters -- do you want to get into the mathematics?
You are very happy to say that Sanada's techniques are >> Atobe's techniques. But then you say that Atobe and Sanada have similar determination. No one is saying that Sanada is a layover, but Atobe's ethos is his underdog status. So if you are going to be fair, say that Atobe's determination is >> Sanada's.