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Atobe seems like Tezuka's rival -- and Tezuka has acknowledged so, e.g. , when boarding the bus from the U17 camp.
Atobe has also had the most growth at the camp. So why is it that he is ranked below Sanada and esp. Fuji?
Personally, I find Atobe very refreshing. In the world of geniuses and implausible techniques, his determination and insight stands out. Plus, he's got swagger and cockiness without seeming like a jerk, e.g, Ryoma.
What are your thoughts? Where does Atobe stand on the tier list of MSers? Should we expect more growth from Atobe going forward?
Last edited by Kaoz; May 28, 2012 at 11:02 AM.
I explained my theories on other topics, so:
Atobe >= Sanada (without BA)
Atobe < Sanada (with BA, I'm not so sure because Black Aura wasn't showed on fully potential)
Interesting take. Feel free to provide more details -- I am genuinely interested.
The way I see it is that Atobe and Tezuka have this long-term rivalry (Tezuka has acknowledged this). Ergo, Atobe should end up near Tezuka's skill level when he is pushed to the brink. Its really hard to compare Atobe and Sanada and Fuji etc. without really having a full reveal of their techniques, so that's why I base it off Tezuka's judgment.
Tezuka doesn't really hold rivalries. But I'm sure if you pressed him for an answer he would say Atobe.
Both Yukimura and Sanada are also rivals of Tezuka. Being a rival does not mean they are equal. In PoT1, Sanada was always better than Tezuka. Sanada would have beat Tezuka in the Kantou tournament, and was also better than Atobe then. Flash forward to the National finals, Sanada is still better than Tezuka and Atobe. You're wondering why Atobe is below Sanada? Atobe was ALWAYS below Sanada. Atobe has no way of returning Rai, case closed. If Nationals Tezuka (which is arguably better than current Atobe) could do nothing to return Rai, what makes you think Atobe can? Yukimura was the only one able to return it, and even THAT was a plot hole because Rai's movement is supposed to be random and unpredictable.
Tezuka > Atobe
Sanada > Atobe
Good points. I'm talking at a very high level that Atobe seems to be Tezuka's true rival -- even if Sanada was better than both of them.
To provide an analogy. In pokemon you start as blue (Tezuka) and your rival is red (Atobe). Now there are a lot of people better than both of you at the start, as you say. Such as Brock (Sanada) or the Elite 4 (Yuki).
But as the game progresses we see that your rival red (Atobe) has grown along with you and toppled everyone else in that universe.
So I guess that I feel Sanada, Yuki...they serve as fodder. Atobe -- like Tezuka -- will eventually 'join him' in the pros as he said during the U17. I feel that Atobe, more than anyone other outside player, is a pseudo member of the Seigaku club and therefore will experience the same powerups that befit the Seigaku team.
Since we are talking about minutiae...recall that Tezuka was Singles 2 and Atobe was Singles 1 for court 5. Meaningless, I know, but still food for thought.
And for what its worth, I would say:
Atobe > Fuji
Tezuka > Atobe
Atobe = Sanada (too close...they have to play each other)
I didnt know we had ranked Atobe below Fuji on here... We agree that Atobe would defeat Fuji.
If your referring to Fayte's fanfic where they drew, its coz it was for great storyline purposes.
---------- Post added at 10:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 AM ----------
So... He never really had a rival. Tezuka and Atobe don't have childhood history flashbacks like Tezuka has with Fuji, Sanada and Yukimura.
The rivalry seems to be for Fan-girl purposes maybe even more than Storyline.
Tezuka, began the series as... The man to beat.
Sanada says that while he and Yuki were supposed to be the best of their age group in the nation, Tezuka walked in and Sanada who is best friends with Yuki and knows him well said Tezuka was likely above him.
So he didnt really ''grow'' along with Atobe. Tezuka was the awesomeness from the start with everybody else trying to reach him.
Fuji is someone who Tezuka himself regards as a rival of his. Not to mention he has
Yukimura and Sanada who are famously the top of the MS Tennis World as his rivals.
Tezuka has a fantastic backstory of facing each of them when they were kids.
Yukimura was THE ONLY MSer originally deemed good enough to be on the 2nd Stringer Top 20 list.
Sanada hits 5 at once and got a new Aura.
A crazy and baseless statement. Im not gonna go harsh here, but you gotta talk sense on here.
Besides Irie who walked all over your beloved Atobe, Yukimura is the ONLY 2nd Stringer who didnt have a Black Jersey Middle Schooler waiting for his match to finish.
This is because Oni, Sanada, Mifune and whoever sure as hell knew that Yukimura was gonna kick the ass of Fuwa Tetsuhito.
''pseudo member''?? No bro. Atobe will get screentime and power-ups coz he has the largest fan-girl fan base of the characters and I cant remember whether or not that is including Ryoma.
Krauser was in Singles 3. Im sorry, but Akutsu, Shiraishi, Kirihara, Tachibana, Chitose, Ishida. G, Kite would ALL KICK THE ASS of Krauser.
In the Nationals, Tezuka was in Singles 3. Tezuka at that point however was above Fuji.
Sanada was in Singles 3, however he was above Niou.
For Higa, Hirakoba played Doubles, yet Hirakoba could kick the ass of teammates Tanishi and Kai.
Until then I see Sanada > Atobe. In this current arc, Atobe is dying against No.9 and No.10.
No.10 has been relaxing and Atobe has been on his back while No.9 and 10 havent broken a sweat.
I reckon he is your fav. character but chill and look at PoT again from another perspective.
Atobe, currently, is above both Fuji and Shiraishi. Unless Fuji gets a major power-up right now, Atobe>Fuji.
Sanada was always above Atobe. FuuRinKaInZanRai is impossible for Atobe to return. He can't handle Rai, Nationals Tezuka couldn't and Nationals Tezuka was stronger than current Atobe. Sanada would beat easily Atobe, with or without BA. Atobe needs to get an insane power-up if he wants, at least, to get to that level. Akutsu is probably stronger than Atobe right now, we didn't see Atobe hitting 5 balls at a time since the manga started, Akutsu can probably hit more than 5 balls, probably he'd hit 10 balls. That, and the fact that he can attack from every position, are more than enough reasons to defeat Atobe. Koori No Sekai won't work on Akutsu as Akutsu's ability to move around the court makes him cover his external blind spots, but AK should still work. He'd also be able to deal with Fugue towards despair and Tannhueser (lol).
And Akutsu, who will probably face and defeat Oohmagari or face and give a close match to Oni, that's another point in his favor. Atobe, with his current level, can't fight at No.8 to No.1 level, if he's having problem against No.9 and 10, he probably won't defeat any stronger player than those. Seriously, Konomi may have run out of ideas, what power-up can you give to Atobe? Probably he can't get any better than he is right now.
He is inferior to Tezuka, Echizen, Sanada, Yukimura and Akutsu, and probably Fuji after power-up.
To clarify what this means:Originally Posted by Airgrimes
Both Sanada and Yukimura view Tezuka by who he was BEFORE the start of PoT1, when he regularly used PoHW. However, that was sealed the ENTIRE Kantou tournament because of Tezuka's elbow injury the previous year. When Sanada says Tezuka was probably above him, he was NOT referring to the Tezuka of the Kantou tournament, but the Tezuka that beat him years before. Sanada would have raped the Kantou Tezuka that played Atobe. The only thing Tezuka had was T-Zone and Zero-shiki before the Nationals. It wasn't until Tezuka entered the National tournament that he reverted back to his "true abilities," like Sanada said during Tezuka's match with Kite.
Good points guys. I think you've reached a consensus. Again, I like Atobe, but we have to be objective.
For some reason when watching the anime, reading the manga, etc. it seems that Atobe is Tezuka's rival. It kind of sucks for Atobe -- you can argue he has not been pushed. Some of his notable matches include a crippled Tezuka and a sandbagging Irie, so its hard to flesh out his true potential.
I think the PoT world is in flux. You have kawamura, oishi, and momo who are suddenly in slots 11-20...and Irie sandbagging it at 20. I wish the battles were very linear, so we could really so who are the best.
Finally, I said that Sanada and Yuki were 'fodder'. What I really meant is that they are 'relative fodder' based solely on the fact that we've been with Atobe longer. Heck, crippled or not, Atobe/Hyotei was Tezuka's first actual challenge. Sanada and Yuki are introduced only later and they come from different regions. Its possible that if the show would write out Yuki or Sanada before phasing out Atobe.
And yes. I am biased. I said it before. In the world of geniuses pulling out implausible techniques, Atobe's techniques are realistic and I think the author has fleshed out his character better than say Fuji or Sanada.
Atobe is probably as strong as Sanada. I'd even go so far as to say he's even stronger, just because he can tough it out longer than Sanada.
And here's a quote from the wiki:
Sometime before Seigaku's National Quarterfinal match against Hyoutei, Sanada had a match with Atobe, who traveled to Rikkai to challenge him. Sanada was in the process of crushing Atobe, until Atobe finally perfects his new move- World of Ice (later first shown in the Singles 1 match against Ryoma). Both Sanada and the onlookers were shocked, but Sanada wanted to continue to play though he did not know what knew trick Atobe developed. Yukimura, however, witnessing the match, steps in and ends it, telling Sanada that if it had continued, then Sanada would have lost.
So no, Sanada has not always been better than Atobe.